Fowler, Sendek, Amato and the GSR (Updated @ 1:15pm)

NC State is currently tied for the worst record in the Atlantic Coast Conference football season as the program heads towards its longest consecutive streak of non-winning seasons since the 1950s.

The Wolfpack has been picked to finish 12th out of 12 teams from almost every imaginable source for the upcoming basketball season continuing a twenty year period that has seen the Pack program earn an ACC Tournament seed better than fourth a single time.

SFN has consistently highlighted statistics that paint the Wolfpack’s overall athletics program at the very bottom of the Atlantic Coast Conference, and most recently blogged this set of statistics that indicate the Wolfpack has one of the worst departments in the entire country amongst our peer group of other BCS programs.

Continuing on that theme, the NCAA’s Graduation Success Rate numbers are being released and NC State finished last overall in the ACC by this measure as well.

For the four academic years beginning in 1999 and running through 2002, Duke graduated 97 percent of student-athletes.

During that time, the University of North Carolina was fourth in the ACC with a Graduation Success Rate of 87 percent and North Carolina State University came in 12th at 69 percent. State had a GSR of only 45 percent of basketball players and 57 percent of football players.

Those numbers place us 9th in basketball and 11th in football in the ACC.

What is GSR?

Division I Graduation Success Rate / Division II Academic Success Rate

The NCAA Graduation Success Rate (GSR) and the Academic Success Rate (ASR) were developed in response to college and university presidents who wanted graduation data that more accurately reflect the mobility among college students today. Both rates improve on the federally mandated graduation rate by including students who were omitted from the federal calculation.

The GSR measures graduation rates at Division I institutions and includes students transferring into the institutions. The GSR also allows institutions to subtract student-athletes who leave their institutions prior to graduation as long as they would have been academically eligible to compete had they remained.

These numbers were for the four academic years beginning in 1999 and ending in 2002. For a point of reference, NC State AD Lee Fowler’s first year at NC State was 2000. These student-athletes would have been graduating between 2005 and 2008, so this represents the most accurate and relevant data available. Additionally, this would have given Lee Fowler five whole years to revamp the academic program if he saw any problems when he was first hired.

The numbers for basketball represent players recruited, coached, and mentored by former Coach Herb Sendek who was thought by most everyone (especially his friends in the media) to do an outstanding job of prioritizing academics and graduating players. In football, these numbers are from classes recruited by Mike O’Cain and Chuck Amato with Amato directing the program in most of the years these student-athletes spent in Raleigh. In the end, Chuck Amato actually graduated players at a higher rate than Sendek during these years which is completely unexpected based on the perceptions and reputations of the two coaches.

When looking at the old federally mandated rates (counts kids that leave the program, but not kids that transfer in), Sendek’s numbers look even worse. Sendek’s numbers of 45% GSR drop all the way to 25%. So only 25% of players recruited by Herb Sendek during these years actually graduated from NC State. The NCAA averages for basketball were a 64% GSR and a 48% Fed Rate.

For Amato and the football program, the drop in the Fed Rate wasn’t nearly as significant (57% GSR vs. 49% Fed Rate). Also, the numbers for football were much closer to the NCAA averages of a 67% GSR and 54% Fed Rate. So if you were recruited by Chuck Amato and arrived on campus, then you were almost twice as likely to receive your degree from NC State than if you were recruited by Herb Sendek.

Despite these numbers, Herb Sendek is one of 7 coaches that sits on the Basketball Academic Enhancement Group that was formed to “develop strategies to enhance academic performance and graduation rates.”

Unbelievable.

Of course, nobody in the media who continues to write about NC State’s former basketball coach will pay any attention to these numbers.

AD Lee Fowler was quoted today in the Raleigh News and Observer:

Leger said N.C. State already has data showing that graduation rates moving forward are going to improve significantly. N.C. State athletic director Lee Fowler said that men’s basketball players transferring out of the program almost seven years ago had a big effect on the graduation rate released Wednesday.

First of all, nobody is blaming Sidney Lowe for these numbers. These numbers reflect directly on LEE FOWLER’S PERFORMANCE. How in the world does he live so far from reality that he doesn’t remotely recognize that this is about HIM?!

SFN Comments
Lee Fowler sleeping_napping_LFI apologize for confusion here as I am a little unclear on some things. As we previously quoted, “The GSR also allows institutions to subtract student-athletes who leave their institutions prior to graduation as long as they would have been academically eligible to compete had they remained.”

But, “N.C. State athletic director Lee Fowler said that men’s basketball players transferring out of the program almost seven years ago had a big effect on the graduation rate released Wednesday.”

For Lee Fowler’s explanation to be accurate, the only way that transferring could have a negative impact on our GSR is that the transferees left in bad academic standing and would have been ineligible to compete if they stayed at NC State. So – if his comments are accurate – apparently a lot of the kids that transferred were not academically eligible which also is NOT a good sign for our academic support system and Fowler’s department.

The only other potential explanation for Fowler’s response is that he doesn’t know or understand the math of how the GSR is calculated. In that case, someone at NC State should probably inform “Coach Fowler” that the GSR was created due to complaints by coaches and athletic directors that counting transfers was unfair — so transfers are NOT counted in the GSR as long as they leave in good academic standing.

Either of these explanations are a tremendous embarrassment to North Carolina State University. But…then again…we’ve gotten pretty accustomed to embarrassments, haven’t we?

Obviously the University is not embarrassed enough since Lee Fowler continues to keep his job en route to finishing his 10th year ‘leading’ the NC State Athletics Department as one of the highest paid employees at NC State and holding his Chancellor’s Award for Excellence

As most average NC State alums often say…“ONLY AT NC STATE”. Now, shut up, pull out your checkbook, and keep giving.

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42 Responses to Fowler, Sendek, Amato and the GSR (Updated @ 1:15pm)

  1. WV Wolf 11/19/2009 at 10:41 AM #

    Let’s compare the quote above from the definition of GSR: The GSR also allows institutions to subtract student-athletes who leave their institutions prior to graduation as long as they would have been academically eligible to compete had they remained.

    With quotes from Lee Fowler in the N&O story: N.C. State athletic director Lee Fowler said that men’s basketball players transferring out of the program almost seven years ago had a big effect on the graduation rate released Wednesday.

    “[Coach] Sidney [Lowe] never had anything to do with these kids that are being reported right now,” Fowler said.

    So either Fowler doesn’t understand the GSR or all those transfers left because they were academically ineligible. Neither one makes me all that happy.

  2. fvpackman 11/19/2009 at 10:41 AM #

    “More student-athletes graduated from Duke within six years of matriculation than any of their peers at ACC schools, according to figures released Wednesday by the NCAA. For the four academic years beginning in 1999 and running through 2002, Duke graduated 97 percent of student-athletes.”

    That would be 2005-2008 graduation years

    All of this is on Lee…He has had plenty time to fix it. He needs to join Lennie Barton today!!!

  3. Classof89 11/19/2009 at 10:43 AM #

    Why does it take them seven years to release these numbers? I understand they give them six years to graduate, but that takes us to 2005. A year to compile the numbers, and that’s still three years ago? Studies like this are worthless as a CURRENT snapshot of what’s going on with a program’s academic performance. What % of Division I schools still have the same football or basketball coaches they had in 2002? I’d estimate less than one-third.

  4. Daily Update 11/19/2009 at 10:51 AM #

    Class of 89: 2002 class gets to 2008 to graduate.

  5. Khan 11/19/2009 at 11:01 AM #

    “Lee Fowler said that men’s basketball players transferring out of the program almost seven years ago had a big effect on the graduation rate released Wednesday.”

    “So either Fowler doesn’t understand the GSR or all those transfers left because they were academically ineligible. Neither one makes me all that happy.”

    I’d like to know how Mr. Flounder would define a successful athletics program. It’s certainly not elite performance. It’s certainly not quality sports marketing. It’s certainly not top-tier graduation percentages. It’s certainly not accurate annual athletics reports. That leaves facilities, I guess.

    The bottom line is until the leadership changes, there is no hope. Zero.

  6. whitefang 11/19/2009 at 11:06 AM #

    Is there anything we don’t suck at?

  7. tobaccordshow 11/19/2009 at 11:11 AM #

    LOL, wait, so Fowler is creating a boogeyman here to deflect. He is insinuating that the “lunatic fringe” are after Sidney Lowe for these terrible numbers… when any rational person (Fowler excluded) would understand that this has no bearing on Sidney. However, Fowler is directly responsible for this.

    I think this was just a deflection mechanism. And then he uses a bogus stat to make everything sound better.

    Either one of three things is happening here:
    1) He really is laughably aloof
    2) He thinks we’re laughably aloof and will buy it
    3) He’s grasping at straws knowing that the writing is on the wall and Woodward doesn’t play around.

  8. Bubba 11/19/2009 at 11:17 AM #

    Shame on Lee Fowler for not making sure that the kids that left(50% of them) didnt graduate at their new schools……

    On the positive side….75% 6 of the 8 kids that remained at State did graduate

  9. 61Packer 11/19/2009 at 11:21 AM #

    Wolfpack sports: taking the S out of GSR.

  10. tootallorder 11/19/2009 at 11:22 AM #

    tobaccordshow says:
    3) He’s grasping at straws knowing that the writing is on the wall and Woodward doesn’t play around.

    Fowlup has been deflecting his horrid leadership for 10 years. How does he still have a job? It’s almost pitchfork and torch time.

  11. Daily Update 11/19/2009 at 11:44 AM #

    Bubba: GSR doesn’t count transfers. We are last overall, 9th in basketball, and 11th in football not counting transfers.

  12. MatSci94 11/19/2009 at 11:50 AM #

    “Is there anything we don’t suck at?”

    Giving money

    (edited part about GSR calculation, I was thinking of the other academic score they use)

  13. Gene 11/19/2009 at 11:57 AM #

    I’m not sure how much responsibility for graduation rests with players and how much is about university support for its athletes, because schools that usually have high graduation rates seem to have them irregardless of who is coaching.

    I’m not surprised by this at all because for every Evitimov, who studied in the class room, Herb had guys who were just taking up space and weren’t interested in getting a degree.

    At least Lowe seems to have a pretty good focus on making sure his players have plans, other than just meeting minimum eligibility requirements.

  14. Gene 11/19/2009 at 11:59 AM #

    “It’s almost pitchfork and torch time.”

    It’s been pitch-fork and torch time regarding Fowler for years now. The man’s made of adamantine-asbestos. All the pitchfork poking won’t scratch him and the fire won’t even warm his toes.

    I don’t know why he has such good job security, but he does.

  15. MatSci94 11/19/2009 at 12:02 PM #

    Here is the NCAA report that describes how they calculate the numbers.

    http://bit.ly/2Lgpgm (sorry about the shortened url, the actual one is gigantic)

  16. rtpack24 11/19/2009 at 12:23 PM #

    “Coach” Fowler does not know if a basketball is blown up or stuffed!

  17. PackMan97 11/19/2009 at 12:39 PM #

    Comparisons like this should also look at the schools graduation rate. Let’s face it, NC State has never really focused on graduating everyone. Duke and UNC-CH pretty much guarantee that you can get a degree, getting accepted is the hard part.

    Graduation rates for ALL students in 1999
    4 yr = 35%
    5 yr = 65%
    6 yr = 70%
    ( this actually an improvement, in ’92 it was 25%, 55% and 62%)

    At UNC in 1999, this is…
    4 yr = 70%
    5 yr = 82%
    6 yr = 84%

    http://www.northcarolina.edu/ira/ir/analytics/retgrper.htm

  18. Khan 11/19/2009 at 12:42 PM #

    “I’m not sure how much responsibility for graduation rests with players and how much is about university support for its athletes, because schools that usually have high graduation rates seem to have them irregardless of who is coaching.”

    Who knows? But the sad thing is, in another category that presents an opportunity for us to be leaders, we’re dead last. Even sadder is the fact that I don’t expect it to be any different.

  19. beer03 11/19/2009 at 12:45 PM #

    A spot of good news that has to do with the first several sentences of the article. I was looking at the college basketball edition of the Sporting News at the barber shop yesterday, and they had us ranked 10th!!!

  20. statemech2010 11/19/2009 at 1:06 PM #

    correct me if i am wrong, but the article that appeared in the N&O today seemed ridiculous. Yesterday they came out with GSR number that used data from 1999-2002 and put our basketball team’s GSR at 9th in the ACC. However, data from 2004-2008, which was released in May, puts us on top of the entire ACC in basketball. Am I missing something? Why is the title of the article “Pack’s grad rate lags” when it is based on data from 10 years ago. Seems to me that recently we have been doing just fine.

  21. packpowerfan 11/19/2009 at 1:49 PM #

    There are a lot of factors that go into graduating ANY student, and athletes are no exception. I’d like to see a study on graduation rates in athletes outside of kinestheology or sports marketing/management/medicine. Granted, I am happy when athletes get degrees period, but I don’t know a lot of student-athletes at Duke or UNC in anything outside of a sports major or psychology. I’m trying not to lump all athletes into a negative stigma, and so maybe someone could help me out on this. Cowdog, do you have any thoughts on the comparison of student-athletes in the typical “rocks for jocks” academic path to more difficult majors?

    Not to mention, as mentioned above, State, as a whole, really doesn’t focus on graduating everyone. I’d go on a limb to say that State would just rather have 33,000 students at any given time, regardless of who is actually finishing. Money is money, and once you graduate the amount of money you give is, usually, nowhere near as substantial as tuition/fees/room and board/etc.

  22. Bubba 11/19/2009 at 1:50 PM #

    Daily Update

    Sorry but you are confused. Of the 8 players that remained at State on scholarship 6 earned degrees. Thats 75% and frankly, they are the only ones I care about.

  23. MatSci94 11/19/2009 at 1:53 PM #

    statemech – I see that as two questions

    1-Why is the NCAA just now releasing this info?

    No idea. I know they give a six year window for graduation, but that gets to 2005. I guess they are too busy deciding whether to be a nanny institution or look the other way.

    2-Why is SFN talking about old (bad) numbers, and not the new (good) numbers.

    Maybe Fowler could have pointed that out in his comments to the N&O, instead of his inane comment about how this isn’t Lowe’s fault.

  24. GAWolf 11/19/2009 at 1:58 PM #

    I’ve said all along that Sendek is slimier than most… he just hid it under a librarian-like image that was a total facade:

    que My Morning Jacket’s “Librarian”…

  25. Sam92 11/19/2009 at 2:05 PM #

    ah, the truth is, we are sunk, and no rescue is in sight

    facing reality, wolfpack athletics roundly stinks, we’re losers just about everywhere

    and to make matters worse, no one in the administration cares; fowler’s job is secure, nothing is going to change

    i’m tired of the misery and pretty much want to give up so i can stop suffering

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