J.P. Giglio and Robbi Pickeral – Summer Hoops Preview Series (7/23 Update)

Giglio won’t get down to NC State until tomorrow, but you should start reading his (with assists by UNC acolyte Robbi Pickeral) excellent “slow season” series today. First up, the overall preview:

The 2009-10 ACC basketball season promises to be different.

For the first time in the expansion era, there is not one, overwhelming favorite to win and/or run away with the league…

The ’10 season will be more of a combination of the 1984-85 and 1994-95 seasons, than like any thing the ACC has seen since Miami and Virginia Tech joined the league before the 2004-05 season, and Boston College a season later.

In ’85, an incredible five teams, in what was then an eight-team league, were separated by one game. Georgia Tech, UNC (coping with the loss of some random future megastar) and N.C. State each went 9-5. Duke and Maryland were a whisper behind at 8-6.

The good teams were good (three of those teams made the Final Eight), but not great (none of them made the Final Four), and the bad teams were just blah.

In ’95, Wake Forest, UNC, Maryland and Virginia all tied for first — the only time in league history the regular-season ended in a four-way tie.

The league was top heavy, though, with the top four at 12-4 and none of the other five teams finished above .500.

I think this is all spot-on. As we discussed earlier this summer, 2009-10 will be the first season since 1984-85 to feature zero returning all-ACC first teamers (and only two guards from SFN’s second and third teams – VT’s Malcolm Delaney and Maryland’s Greivis Vasquez, respectively). You could end up with a jumbled mess of 9-10 win teams, or a solid handful of 10-12 teams and a bunch of squads languishing in NIT/CBI territory. The only certainty is that both evil blues will be part of the lead pack, regardless. Damn it.

I’m more impressed by Giglio’s analysis than his actual rankings, as I think he underestimates Clemson and especially VT, while overestimating Boston College. Yes, the Eagles return many players and are well-coached – but how many games did they win last year without departed Tyrese Rice shouldering most of the load? I’m sure there were some, but I don’t remember any offhand. I don’t expect them to plummet like Miami, but certainly not finish third.

Part I of the team-by-team analysis (UNC, BC, FSU) is here. It is most notable for inducing vomit when you remember that this is what Roy’s Holes look like in a down year. They will likely win the ACC regular season or tournament, get a Top 4 seed in the NCAAT, lose in the second or third round – and Roy will apologize for having such a bad season and pledge that it will never happen again. BC also adds zero recruits, which strikes me (and J.P./Robbi) as very odd. If Florida State’s highly-rated guard recruit is ready early and Derwin Kitchen steps up, the Seminoles are an interesting dark horse.

Part II of the team-by-team analysis (Duke, GT, Clemson) is here. It is most notable for Giglio’s detailed logic for picking Duke ahead of UNC – very persuasive, even if I don’t agree with the ultimate conclusion. I don’t like Singler for POY, either. I think he’ll have to adjust to playing on the wing, and will really struggle defensively. My (nonexistent) pre-season vote would still go to Malcolm Delaney, the top returning player from last year’s SFN honors. The Jackets bolster their funky name tradition by adding a Mfon and a Kammeon this year. Clemson also adds three Top 75 recruits – and if Purnell starts recruiting better, I see no reason for Clemson not to get over the hump and join the ACC elite. As evidenced early last February, the Tigers have Duke figured out every bit as much as Villanova.

Part III of the team-by-team analysis (Wake, MD, UVA) is here. It is most notable for the best one sentence summary of Wake basketball that I’ve seen (“But if you can’t shoot, and your coach isn’t that good, where does that leave you?”). According to Giglio, it leaves you 10th in a 12 team league. Ouch. We also remember just how maddeningly inconsistent Maryland has been lately (and will likely be so again this year), and just how shitty Dave Leitao was. I predict that former Charlotte Hornet Tony Bennett will win several 47-44 games (that they have no business even seriously contesting) this year, killing at least one ACC foe’s NCAAT resume.

7/23 UPDATE: Here is Part IV (State, VT, Miami). Giglio gives the “Lowe/Fowler enablers” point of view a much more thorough airing than is logically warranted, but then closes with this prescient paragraph (which I highlight because I believe its is accurate, not because it is negative – reality just sucks sometimes):

Without Brown, Lowe’s trying to start over with many of the same parts — Julius Mays, Javi Gonzalez, Smith, C.J. Williams — that he either mishandled or ignored for long stretches of last season. It’s tough to sell a fan base on a restart when really the cards are being reshuffled in a transparent game of three-card monte.

I believe Giglio is a little premature in declaring Virginia Tech’s window closing – yes, the last two years did involve missed opportunities, but two veteran, star players (especially when one is a playmaking guard) gives you a legitimate shot at the upper echelon, at least in an ACC like 2009-10’s. I can’t argue with the prediction a Category Five disaster for the Miami Hurricanes. They should give the Pack a run for their money in the chase for rock bottom.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

09-10 Basketball Media

17 Responses to J.P. Giglio and Robbi Pickeral – Summer Hoops Preview Series (7/23 Update)

  1. 61Packer 07/22/2009 at 11:52 PM #

    The only line in this entire article that Wolfpackers need to read is the following: “On paper, only three teams (NC State, Virginia and Miami) appear dead-on-arrival in terms of postseason ambitions.”

    And most fans would agree that UVA and Miami will have better coaching for the coming season.

    But don’t give up yet. Just wait ’til next year!

  2. GoldenChain 07/23/2009 at 9:45 AM #

    Just because one tarhole says we’re DOA doesn’t mean I’m throwing in the towel. Yes there are plenty of examples of coaches coming in and making an immediate impact. Then there are plenty of others (K, Dean) where it took at least 3 seasons to start to see good improvement.
    Frankly, if Sid is going to fail I’d rather him fail misserably instead of winning 17, 18, or 19 games in a weak ACC season and hanging on another season or two.

  3. tootallorder 07/23/2009 at 11:03 AM #

    One more line from the article: “It’s tough to sell a fan base on a restart when really the cards are being reshuffled in a transparent game of three-card monte.”

  4. BJD95 07/23/2009 at 11:06 AM #

    ^ You read my mind – I was just highlighting that dagger of a closing paragraph in today’s update!

  5. bradleyb123 07/23/2009 at 11:29 AM #

    Sid will have the last say in this.

  6. Wulfpack 07/23/2009 at 11:37 AM #

    If he can’t win in this weak ACC then his time has come.

  7. bradleyb123 07/23/2009 at 11:47 AM #

    ^ “If he can’t win in this weak ACC then his time has come.”

    I’m a defender of Sidney, but I think I tend to agree.

  8. Wolf74 07/23/2009 at 12:57 PM #

    “Frankly, if Sid is going to fail I’d rather him fail misserably instead of winning 17, 18, or 19 games in a weak ACC season and hanging on another season or two.”

    I agree 100%. Either win 20+ or 10- but please nothing in between because I do not have enough confidence in anyone in Raleigh to make the correct decision!

  9. ryebread 07/23/2009 at 2:05 PM #

    Wolf74: To be fair, I think the “right decision” is much easier to see in those two scenarios you describe. If the team wins 20+, SL deserves to be back. If they absolutely tank, then he should go.

    The decision is much, much tougher if we go ~ 18-14 (6-10) yet have a stud recruiting class coming in the next season. From an external perspective, what is “right” in that scenario will probably be determined by what one’s preconceived notion is.

    It will take an objective opinion close to the program to make that decision. What I think that you’re correctly calling out is that LF, while close enough, isn’t objective. We can’t trust him to make that call.

    That’s one of the main reasons why I personally feel that LF should be gone now. We need someone competent, whose star isn’t so directly linked to the success of SL to be able to watch for a year and make that assessment. Back in April, I had high hopes that we might have that. With each passing day, I grow more doubtful.

    I think this year will be a year in limbo. Before the news of Brown, I actually thought we’d be a pleasant surprise this year — finishing around 6th and .500 in the league. Without him, I think we’re staring 9th-12th squarely in the face which means we’ll be faced with the scenario I described. I really hope that I’m wrong though.

  10. Cosmo96 07/23/2009 at 2:12 PM #

    “Tracy Smith. One of the biggest mistakes media-types make in projections is we forget to factor in improvement. For example (and bear with the UNC reference, State fans), but Ty Lawson and Wayne Ellington were miles better as juniors than they were as sophomores.

    Players get older, they get more experience, they learn and they get better. We lose sight of that in college basketball because there are so many prospects that leave after one or two years or we downgrade the ones that stick around because of some bizarro NBA-potential stigma.

    The point of that preamble is Tracy Smith is going to be a mile better as a junior. The power forward went from averaging 3.3 points as a freshman to 10.0 last year. In his third season, don’t be surprised if Smith’s numbers jump another seven points.”

    I think Tracy Smith will have certainly improved over last year, but I don’t know about “a mile better”. I mean, how often does that happen? I would argue that this type of improvement would also have to apply to Javi Gonzalez, too, for us to see any modicum of success this year. Again, how often do you see such drastic improvement in one year for one player, much less two?

  11. GoldenChain 07/23/2009 at 2:19 PM #

    ryebread, I think the factor in an 18W season would be did we end up like we did the season before last on a 10 game (or whatever it was) skid? Did we win 18 but lose 4 or 5 by a bucket because of poor substitution, clock management, etc.

    As far as Jed, I think he might be ‘smelling the coffee’ at least a little. He definately resisted the easy decision about Glance and chose to take the women’s program another direction (as pointed out so well in the other blog).

    Think about this: during Jed’s tenure we’ve had about the most anti-athletic administration one could have and Jed’s job performance reflected that. Chances are the next admin will place more emphasis on successful athletics since it means a lot of $$$ for the school and high profile exposure…..if not we might as well go DII.

  12. BJD95 07/23/2009 at 2:31 PM #

    Improvement is possible, but shouldn’t be readily assumed. Some players never get better, and some even regress (Robert O’Kelley, anyone?). You’re more likely to see improvement from “raw” players, players that add strength/lose excess weight, and/or players waiting for their skills to catch up to their physical attributes (height, athleticism, etc.).

    A guy like Jordan Vandenburg is someone you would expect to develop. I would posit that he’ll be unplayable this year, but could be a very solid role player as an upperclassman.

    My primary concern with Tracy Smith is whether he will be able to create as much offense without Costner and McCauley setting him up with some nice passes, and whether anyone develops enough perimeter skill (coupled with passing ability) to effectively go inside/out with Smith, which is his highest and best use in the half-court.

  13. choppack1 07/23/2009 at 3:26 PM #

    Yep, BJD. Of course, if Horner can emerge as an acceptable 4 – that would free up some space for him.

    It is really absurd that someone like Lee Fowler will likely manage to make the decision to keep a coach who hasn’t reached the tourney in his first 4 seasons AGAIN.

  14. Wufpacker 07/23/2009 at 6:51 PM #

    Geez, do we really have to talk about bball already? Football is still more than a month away and, frankly, I’d like to enjoy some football before having to face the train wreck that will be the NCSU ’09-’10 basketball season.

  15. packgrad2000 07/26/2009 at 12:58 AM #

    “Just because one tarhole says we’re DOA doesn’t mean I’m throwing in the towel.”

    You do realize Giglio is an N.C. State grad, right?

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. J.P. Giglio and Robbi Pickeral - Summer Hoops Preview Series … | College Sports Nation - 07/22/2009

    Riq8yC Hey, thanks for the post.Really looking forward to read more. Great.

  2. The Good Ol Blog » Blog Archive » ACC Now And UVa Hoops - 07/27/2009

    […] News & Observer. Giglio has a summer series running on the whole ACC. Here’s what State Fans Nation had to say about UVa: I predict that former Charlotte Hornet Tony Bennett will win several 47-44 […]

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