Updated “State of the Program” Thoughts

wilee

OK, dark side – you win. Last night’s disastrous effort pushed me over the edge. Taking a cue from Sidney Lowe’s motivational techniques and substitution patterns, I will not order my thoughts logically and just throw crap against the wall to see what sticks:

– Sidney Lowe has clearly lost this team, for the second year in a row. That’s completely unacceptable, and could be a program destroyer.

– Sidney Lowe not only put a shell-shocked Javi Gonzalez into a tie game cold midway through the second half, but also did so without a secondary ballhandler on the court with him. Gee, who could have predicted three straight turnovers (though somehow the boxscore only lists two) in that situation? I was mildly surprised that no crazed fans charged the court to set themselves on fire in protest.

– Julius Mays kept State in the game during the second half, but don’t read too much into it. Against a more disciplined opponent, he won’t be able to run around for 30 seconds, then get an open lane or pull-up jumper. And he still finished the game with no assists.

– The “effort” lineup that worked against FSU for about 10 minutes in the second half will not be able to stand against better competition. Even against the Noles, it was weak defensively and on the glass.

– By the “consecutive ACC losses” measure, Sidney Lowe is now the losingest coach in NC State history (hat tip, SFN commenters)! That’s saying alot from an institution that once employed Les Robinson for six long years. Congratulations, Coach!

– I’ve said this many times privately, and nobody has ever contradicted it – the only staff member that seems to have any clue about “nuts and bolts” college coaching is #3 assistant Pete Strickland. That’s just pathetic.

– When Lowe was hired, I told numerous friends that the great thing was that “limbo hell” was over – Sid would likely be a smashing success, or an abject failure. Looks like I was right.

– Fellow Hindenburg program Georgia Tech comes to town on Saturday. One team has to win, the other starts worrying about a Bob Wade-like season. State would actually be lucky if the crowd is small – otherwise, the ESA will be full of very angry people.

– I watched last night’s game late on DVR (my wife and kids claimed the HDTV that was recording the game for that awful American Idol show). I sent an e-mail to fellow SFN bloggers with about 9:30 to go and State down 1, saying that even if State comes back to win, this was one of the most poorly coached games I had ever seen. I apologize for not being there live with you on the blog – misery loves company.

– Want to feel even worse? In bad economic times, I think it’s fair to assume that the purse strings of the big money donors are much tighter. I’m not sure the money is there to chase off Fowler and Lowe, much less to throw money at a decent coach for what looks like a very major rebuilding job. Thus, I don’t see any rational reason to have so much as a scintilla of hope.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

08-09 Basketball General NCS Basketball Sidney Lowe

162 Responses to Updated “State of the Program” Thoughts

  1. Alpha Wolf 01/14/2009 at 8:26 AM #

    I was going to post this as a short entry, but it fits here better:

    Sidney Lowe, it is time for YOU to man up and stop blaming your players. Stand up and take responsibility!

  2. kyjelly 01/14/2009 at 8:40 AM #

    Well hate to say I told you so.

  3. Astral Rain 01/14/2009 at 8:41 AM #

    NCSU is an ACC program- that still carries some cachet for a coach.

    Also, NC hasn’t been hit as hard as other areas. We could find a coach.

    As for Sid- this is the last year I was willing to accept substandard results. At the very least, the talent that will come needs to be kept so we don’t end up with the crap that happened 3 years ago.

    At most, he gets one more year. At most.

  4. Wulfpack 01/14/2009 at 8:46 AM #

    While there are a laundry list of things Sidney Lowe has not done well here in his 3 years at the helm, I do not think it is fair at this stage to say he has lost this team this year — not yet anyways.

    However, if the bizarre substitution patterns continue for a couple more games, and we happen to be losers in them, which is quite a possibility at this point given that we haven’t won an ACC game in ages, then yes, this year will be another trainwreck and he will lose the players, both young and old, and even those targeting the Pack as a potential place to go to school and play basketball.

    Horner and Javi should not be on the floor, period. I don’t know what the staff is watching, but it ain’t pretty from those two. When FSU needed a basket, what did they do? They attacked Horner, and his guy went to the boards and collected a ton of rebounds. He’s not exactly a stud offensively either. And Javi, I feel for him and hope he can bounce back, but his confidence is totally shattered and much of that is on Lowe. You can’t put a kid in a game when he isn’t prepared. Causes all sorts of problems for Javi AND his teammates. We don’t need to play 3 PGs. Most programs are happy playing one with a guy to spell him for a few minutes.

    Speaking broadly, when a kid is looking to come to NC State to play basketball, what kind of “system” will they be playing in? Can anybody tell me? Because right now, it’s a cluster. Who are we? What do we do? What are we trying to do? I’ve got no answers for you today on that front.

  5. Justin Gainey 01/14/2009 at 8:52 AM #

    State of the Program? What program? This is more like intramurals. They should have tryouts for the scholarships kept currently by our so called basketball team. When will State get a mens basketball team. I think we are the only school in Division 1 that has two womens basketball teams. haha

  6. Rochester 01/14/2009 at 8:52 AM #

    I put this on the previous string just before it was closed up, but it seems to fit here:

    Here’s what bothers me the most about the playing time: It’s as if Sid doesn’t really know what he’s got, and he’s largely to blame for that. In the four games after Ferguson got hurt (against Marquette on 12/22) C.J. Williams played a total of 5 minutes. Johnny Thomas played a total of 6, all against Loyola. (I realize for him his knee may cut into his PT, but it’s really hard to tell what the reasons for him sitting are in a particular game.) So you lose a starter to injury, and instead of taking that opportunity to learn what the younger guys can do, you keep them on the bench. Loyola and Towson would be great opportunities to see what the freshmen can do, right? Maybe not. All of a sudden against FSU, C.J. gets 17 minutes and Thomas gets 18 and they both played pretty well. To make this even stranger, C.J. started the first five games of the year.

    In the first half last night it was like Sid had a preset substitution in his mind before the game started. After five minutes, sub Horner for Costner no matter what. Costner kicked a$$ those first five minutes. He scored 7 of our first 12 points, getting us a 12-4 lead. He drew a couple fouls and made some good defensive plays. His reward: a spot on the bench. I’m not excusing his less than dynamic play later in the game, but if you want to keep your players motivated, don’t jerk them around like that.

    Is the coaching staff watching in practice? Are they aware of the strengths and weaknesses of each player? Some of these are obvious watching the game on TV. Javi has no strengths. Why was he in the game? Can’t really pin the loss on him, because we were ahead after he was back on the bench, but he sure didn’t help. But we’re halfway through the season now and we don’t have any set pecking order for playing time. This is inexcusable.

  7. Noah 01/14/2009 at 8:54 AM #

    I’ve made my thoughts on Lowe pretty clear, so I’ll try not to go over the same ground (again).

    I agree with Alpha Wolf. I haven’t said anything because I didn’t want to sound like I was being petty…but everytime I hear Lowe in the post-game, it sounds like he’s saying, “I put together a great gameplan. These morons just don’t know how to run it.” Those are public comments that a coach should never say, no matter how true it is.

    Step #1 has got to be the removal of Fowler. There’s no point even talking about Step #2 if that doesn’t happen. I don’t know why this will cost enormous amounts of money. How much money would it cost to call Boone and say, “Charlie Cobb…we’ve got a vacancy for you.”

  8. Rick 01/14/2009 at 8:56 AM #

    Our program is a wreck. Maybe Lee will get his wish of no one caring. Thus he can be content to suck while pulling in the seat license revenue.

    Our leadership sucks both on court and off.

    Fells, Gonzo and Horner should never, ever, ever, ever, ever ,EVER see the court again. They are plain AWFUL.

    Start Mays, Degand, Thomas, Smith and Costner.
    Sub Williams, McCauley and Red. That’s it.
    We will not be world beaters but we might win a game.

  9. Cardiac95 01/14/2009 at 9:06 AM #

    The practical question at this point is “Under what scenario does Sid get fired this season?”

    – We know Fowler does not have the nuts to fire Sid under any circumstance this season (or next season, or the next season…)
    – We know that the current Chancellor has no inclination to give a crap about athletics.
    – Based on our last two coaching “situations”, it seems this may fall on the shoulders of the BOT. When they reached their limit with Amato… things happened. When their was no limit with the “other guy”… nothing happened.

    So does anyone have a pulse on where the BOT is in all this?

  10. Daily Update 01/14/2009 at 9:06 AM #

    Last night I was coming up with all sorts of ideas to protest Lee Fowler’s employment at NC State. I thought of getting a video of me burning the rest of my season tickets in front of Lee Fowler’s office(Lake Gaston) and putting it on YouTube. Or maybe shredding my tickets and sending them to Lee’s office or maybe even Wendell Murphy.

    Even back in the Les Robinson era I had hope. The first few years of Herb Sendek were very exciting. Right now, I have zero excitement in regards to NC State basketball and thankfully I never got suckered into a LTR for basketball. I have bought a season ticket the last two years, but that isn’t going to happen next season as long as Fowler is the AD. If the people above Lee Fowler don’t care, then I don’t see why I should either.

    As far as the game, do we have anyone on our team who consistently plays every night out? That seems to be a big problem. There is no consistency of effort or performance on a nightly basis. There is no way Julius Mays should lead us in scoring.

    I can’t pick on Javier. He has been hurt and this isn’t his fault.

    There simply is no leadership or consistency from McCauley, Costner and Fells. I am convinced that McCauley just isn’t a very good player(who might be effective if he lost 15 lbs). I don’t know what happened to his ability to pass the ball. Fells has flashes, but he can’t play 30+ minutes of solid basketball. Costner…don’t even know what to think of him. He can get the ball and flail at the basket to get to the free throw line. Other than that he doesn’t do much out there except miss a lot of shots.

  11. wolfpackbball 01/14/2009 at 9:07 AM #

    To say Sidney has lost the team is a little premature. To say that you were right and Sidney is an abject failure is an example of abject stupidity. Could he do some things better? Of course. Will he get better? I think so, but give him the chance with some decent players.
    I think we all knew what Sidney was when he was hired: a coach with no college experience, a coach that will learn on the job. I won’t chronicle all of the cards that were stacked against him with defections and recruiting.
    Hell, I’m glad that we won’t have money to change coaches. I hope we don’t. We have a couple of stellar classes coming in over the next two years, with the best being the second with Leslie and Harrow. We decide the “program is destroyed”, and we really are up without a paddle. Those kids get out of letters and de-commit. And who is coming to save the day? The national media will devour us for pushing Lowe out this soon and no one will want this job.
    I hate the current state of affairs as much as the next person, but really, you knew what we were to start the season.

    Delete if you feel the need

    SFN: no need. While not everyone may agree with your opinion, you expressed yourself well, and there will be people who agree 100% with your post.

    We’re about discussion here, not everyone slapping each other on the back and agreeing with everything everyone says. It is fine to disagree, but it has to be done civilly and without personal attacks, and you met both criteria.

  12. Daily Update 01/14/2009 at 9:15 AM #

    Noah: Totally agree about step 1 and step 2. We aren’t at the point where step 2 is even an option. The AD is the one who created this mess, so why in the world would he be involved with hiring a guy to fix it? There is no logical reason for him to remain at NC State past this Spring. However, we are NC State so we all know he isn’t going anywhere. So talking about Lowe is almost pointless in my mind. The message from the BOT and chancellor is that it is time to move on and find something else to do/watch, spend more time with family and friends, etc…essentially big time college basketball at NC State is dead for now.

    If/when Lee Fowler is replaced, then it will be time to get back on board. Money can’t be an excuse to get a new AD. He is only making $250k and he is signed through 2013(how did that extension last year happen???). So we are looking at less than $1.5 million to get him out of here.

  13. BJD95 01/14/2009 at 9:16 AM #

    Dissenting opinions are welcome. Everyone has a different breaking point. I’ve hit mine.

    Different gloomy thought – NC State would have to overpay to get a good coach. Which also means doubling TOB’s salary.

  14. ldr of the pk 75 01/14/2009 at 9:23 AM #

    Painful to listen to the last 6 min of what turned into a clusterf_ _ _ ! Our subs move out to a 4-6 pt lead, a 3 pointer is missed by Horner. “Coach” puts the “A” team back in and we get outscored 19-2? WTF!! Our “brilliant” radio guys kept whining about the missed 3 pointer by Horner. For Christ sake, that was somewhere between the 6 and 7 minute mark. Does anyone in the organization know anything? If excelence is the goal for the program, the season is indeed lost at this point. The body of work for the last 2 1/2 seasons doesn’t point to bringing ecellence back, but rather stumbling along wishing and hoping. Perhaps it is harder in basketball, but we have had a few football coaches through the years that step in to 3-8 or 4-7 situation and turn around in the year or two max to 7-4 or 8-3. For basketball, it would just be nice to get back to being competitive. What is it about State, with the heritage we have, that we can’t bring in a coach or players, that will compete with ACC talent? Ah, we’re back to Fowler again I suppose.

  15. choppack1 01/14/2009 at 9:28 AM #

    You know it’s a bad day when BJD is quoting Apocolypse Now.

    Last night’s game was a critical one for NC State. It was the kind of game team’s in the middle tier win – and the kind of game bottom feeder’s lose.

    I think Rochester makes an excellent point about Sidney’s substitution patterns. This makes it difficult for every player in a wolfpack uniform.

    While the season isn’t over – we may have reached a tipping point. Some teams can come back from this kind of stuff. However, it’s worth noting, that on a micro level – I don’t know if I’ve seen any great Wolfpack comebacks since that one game Sid’s first year where Costner hit several 3s in a row to cut a large lead to a few points.

    I don’t want to point fingers – but ultimately, one person has been in charge of managing and developing this roster, identifying and bringing in new talent. Some players like Horner and Javi – seemed to peak in their freshmen year (their first year under Lowe), it also appears that Costner and McCauley peaked their first year under him.

    I really hope there is serious introspection going on for Lowe and his coaching staff right now. Of course, when we lose and all you get was “We didn’t run our stuff right” …that doesn’t give folks much hope. We haven’t been running his stuff right for 3 years and we all know the definition of insanity – right?

  16. BassPacker 01/14/2009 at 9:28 AM #

    We have had 55 turnovers total in the last 3 games. It was a stat highlighted on the post game show. The coach needs to take responsibility.

    You can say what you want about Javi, he played 3 minutes, had 3 turnovers and one foul which led to 9 pts for FSU. He is to our basketball team what Beck is to the football team.

    I have to admit, I’m even losing faith in this team and specially Sid. You can feel it in your seats as the game progresses….we expect to lose.

    With 2 minutes left in game, people started hitting the exits. I see nothing good about this team or its coaching staff. The only bright spot I see in season if the losing streak continues, there will be alot of LTR seating upgrades available for next year.

    There was some good guard play last nite from the RED team, they had a peewee type game at halftime, there was a couple 6 years olds that made some dazzling moves to the basket…..and scored !

  17. Daily Update 01/14/2009 at 9:28 AM #

    BJD95: Based on that thought, we probably wouldn’t go after a current top coach. Most likely we would be looking at mid-majors and young assistants at big programs. I don’t have a problem with that. Last time we went the assistant route, we were on the right track. We just hired the wrong guy from Pitino’s coaching tree (Sendek instead of Donovan).

    The obvious guy to target is Sean Miller…right? Wonder what his relationship is like with Coach Fowler.

  18. Cosmo96 01/14/2009 at 9:28 AM #

    “Step #1 has got to be the removal of Fowler. There’s no point even talking about Step #2 if that doesn’t happen.”

    I agree, but how does Fowler get removed? He doesn’t want to go. Those few who are capable of removing him don’t want him to go. NC State athletics is basically shackled by, and to, Lee Fowler.

    This whole thread does a good job of summing up my looming despair concerning basketball.

  19. wingatewolf 01/14/2009 at 9:30 AM #

    When Lowe was hired I was asked by friends is he the guy. My response was give him 4 years.

    Yes, he faced a mess of which Sendek left him. Can he coach? I still don’t know. Although, I’m still glad we don’t have Sendek as was noted we’d be stuck in limbo hell. When Sendek’s motto (heard him say it was posted in the locker room) that consistency is better than occasional greatness I wanted to scream. Consistently mediocre really was his motto. Enough of him though.

    What concerns me about Lowe is that the players I see on the floor have either gotten marginally better (Fells) or regressed (McCauley). Players like Javi have no business every being an ACC player. The other major concern is that we have no leader period. We haven’t had one since Engin left. Ironically Fergi’s the only one who’s gotten better but that’s like saying he’s the world’s tallest midget. Degand and Horner have also regressed but at least Degand has an excuse, he’s coming off major knee surgery. We look lost on the court.

    There are problems in that locker room and it was noted by the post-game on Wolpack radio. I want Lowe to succeed and build. But it makes no sense that Wake Forest can elevate their team so high so fast. Their players have improved and I cannot say the same thing about ours.

    Plain and simple the AD must go immediately. In a down economy every worker in America is working harder to prove his/her worth to their company. Bring in Charlie Cobb and let him take NCSU athletics to the level it should be.

    I too have no enthusiasm for basketball this year. I lost it last year while at the ACC tournament and watch a team I love with all my heart completely embarrass themselves. I hate quitters and lackluster leaders and my friends show me evidence that we don’t have either.

    Unlike Wal Mart UNC and Duke fans I will NEVER abandon my team regardless of how bad they are. I just think we can do better because Wolfpack fans are the best fans in America if you ask me.

    And on the point of next 2 year’s recruits. Yes, I’ve had comments from ref buddies who have called games with these kids are indeed they are talented. So was Hickson. I’m not sure it gets better.

  20. Noah 01/14/2009 at 9:31 AM #

    The national media doesn’t give TWO CRAPS what happens to NC State. The local media barely gives ONE crap about us. The FANS don’t even care. To say we would get destroyed for firing a horrid coach is not only wrong, but paranoid to the extreme.

    Lowe took over a program that had been to five straight NCAA tournaments. Since taking it over, the program hasn’t done squat. He had a marginal level of success the first year and two years of complete failure.

    It’s not like he was a popular hire with anyone other than die-hard NC State fans anyway. I imagine the “national” reaction would mostly be a yawn, followed by, “Well…yeah. What did you think was going to happen when you hired that guy?”

    The only two people who thought it was a good hire were Larry Brown and Lee Fowler…and Fowler also thought Steve Lavin would be a good hire. If it was such a good hire, hell…there’s 32 NBA teams and they all have three or four assistant coaches. Let’s just go hire one of them. That’s more than a 100 folks who would be great hires.

    Let’s hire Chad Forcier from the San Antonio Spurs. He went to Seattle Pacific and played ball there. He was a member of Oregon State’s coaching staff for a little while, so he knows the college game. He was also an assistant coach at a high school back in Washington state. He comes from such a great coaching family too. His brother AND his sister are both basketball coaches!

    Slam-dunk hire. Let’s offer him the job.

    How about Lionel Hollins? He’s an assistant with the Milwaukee Bucks. He was a head coach twice in the NBA and had an overall record of about 40-100. That’s a winning percentage of 28 percent!!! That’s three percent better than Lowe!

    He’s been an assistant in the NBA for about 20 years. Before that, he was a player for the Phoenix Suns. He was also a college star, making all-american at both JUCO and with Arizona State. And he was a point guard!

    I think we have a winner. Let’s hire Lionel Hollins!

    If we hired either of these chumps, people actually would run onto the court and set themselves on fire. The ONLY reason people are defending Lowe is because he’s an alum.

  21. ldr of the pk 75 01/14/2009 at 9:35 AM #

    “Those few who are capable of removing him don’t want him to go. NC State ”

    Cosmo, therein lies a big part of the problem. Money drives most decisions these days. LTR’s, very large donors that are catered to. If you’re being catered to, you tend to overlook the mediocrity a bit and just enjoy the entertainment value.

  22. tvp1 01/14/2009 at 9:36 AM #

    Suggestion to frustrated fans: Move out of NC. I live in the DC area. I don’t get ESPNU on Comcast, and I don’t get many of the Raycom games. I’ve been a die hard Pack fan since birth, and it’s been remarkably easy to completely lose interest in the basketball program. If you have to go out of your way to watch this team play, you stop doing it. Out of sight, out of mind.

    And it’s only going to get worse from here. Sid’s deathwatch officially started last night, if it had not started earlier.

    I cannot imagine what the succesful businessmen who have donated gobs of money to our athletic department are thinking now about how things are being handled.

  23. Noah 01/14/2009 at 9:40 AM #

    I told BJD a little while ago that Lowe wasn’t the problem, he was the symptom of a larger disease.

    The cure is going to suck. It starts with turning in your LTRs and walking away. Seriously, you want to shake things up? Get a couple of thousand people to hand in the LTRs that they paid a lot for and say, “That’s it. I’m out.”

    You’ll see a change very quickly.

  24. ktoh 01/14/2009 at 9:40 AM #

    ^”Give Sid A chance”. “We have not been running his “stuff” for three years” PS Sid has no “stuff” to run.
    I will drink that kool-aid if you want ,but first after 11 acc losses in a row and turning a close game against a crappy team into a 15 point loss ,please tell me a positive and how Sid turns this around?

  25. rswilli2 01/14/2009 at 9:41 AM #

    I haven’t hit the breaking point yet, but it’s coming. I’m holding off because I like Coach Lowe, and I gave Sendek 5 years before calling for his head, so I’ll give Lowe the same respect.

    I just don’t know what to make of this team and staff. I have no doubt that Coach knows the game better than any of us, and knows how to draw up plays. And I don’t think he’s lost the team – we saw the young fellas come in last night and bust ass out there for him. Ferguson busts ass whenever he’s in. Horner tries, but he’s not any good. But as someone else said, it’s almost like he doesn’t know what he has yet, and that shouldn’t be. Granted, there are no world beaters on this roster and inconsistency is the only thing these guys are consistent at. But the substitution patterns have got to change. These guys are not entitled to any playing time, and I don’t care who it is. Play who you think gives you the best chance to win in a given game, and ride them until they need a rest. Sorry, but Horner, Gonzalez, and McCauley just aren’t cutting it and need to sit.

    I also have no doubt that the majority of our roster has no business seeing more than 5 minutes a game in the Atlantic Coast Conference. I’m sorry, but even including our “stars”, this is one of the worst collections of talent I’ve ever seen. The big men are soft as cotton, they have no moves in the post, our starting SF seems to go brain dead at times, and our guards should be playing Division II ball. Frankly, it’s been nearly 20 years since I’ve been excited about any incoming freshman class at NCSU, and that’s because we usually get the “nice” players that fit a certain role, instead of the studs that can take over a game and break an opponent’s will. NBA-caliber talent has been basically non-existant at this school for a long, long time, and that has to change. Coach Lowe is doing his damnedest to bring that kind of player to this school, and I think that we’ll see better results once they arrive. But unless he gets his sub patterns under control and gets these guys (especially our “leaders”) to stop playing with their heads up their asses and give maximum effort every single night, he might not last long enough to benefit from these incoming guys.

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