Technician to Stafford: Improve or Retire

Please DO NOT disregard this blog entry as some non-sports entry in which you don’t have any interest. If you are, were, or may be a student at NC State at some point in your life, then the topic of “The Student Experience” at NC State should be of extreme importance to you.

Unfortunately, the quality of “The Student Experience” has not been of extreme importance to the ‘good folks’ at NC State for quite a long time and Technician is writing about the topic in a must read piece.

They don’t hesitate to place the spotlight on Vice Chancellor of Student Affairs, Tom Stafford. Under Stafford’s reign, NC State has seen the end of institutional traditions such as student campouts, The Lawn Party and Wolfstock while other key social elements to the student experience like Hillsborough Street and the Greek system of deteriorated to near death. (Just to name a few)

We are going to have have more on this later in the day…but my morning is swamped. I wanted to get this on the blog asap in hopes some of our best readers would share their thoughts and insights on NC State’s continuously dwindling student experience.

In short, NC State is becoming a large commuter school.

Please share some of your comments, thoughts and insights.

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82 Responses to Technician to Stafford: Improve or Retire

  1. DRW 01/30/2007 at 10:42 AM #

    I think that the current and recent students should share some of the blame as far as some ‘traditions’ being cancelled. The ‘near riot’ at ticket camp out the Brent Road part fiascos come to mind.

    If some people didn’t get so drunk and stupid, people like Stafford wouldn’t have had as much ammunition to jump start their cause.

  2. legacyman 01/30/2007 at 10:50 AM #

    Unless my memory fails me, weren’t the two drunks involved in the bad scene non-students? At least one was not, I beleive.

  3. Dr. BadgerPack 01/30/2007 at 10:52 AM #

    Stafford should walk around Madison (WI) for a while. Anything that happened at State during my stint there pales in comparison to “the student experience” in Mad-Town.

  4. BoKnowsNCS71 01/30/2007 at 10:59 AM #

    Kids are kids. Being drunk and stupid goes back a long time as I surely know — but that’s another story.

    Reaction should be tendered and not become over-reaction. Too soon is a quick fix thrown in to satisfy the media hounds when there are other, reasonable options.

    I remember FOTC, concerts, fun events and even “re-writing the constitution and taking back the Student Union in State Government”, and all the other things we did in the early 70’s.

    I would hope that in coming years — NCAA sports — as part of the student experience will grow and prosper and not be allowed to fall into disrepair for 10 (plus) year cycles.

    People running the show forget that the students are the show. And that leadership is more than brandishing a stick.

  5. packof81 01/30/2007 at 11:05 AM #

    It must be a total drag to be a student now. It was a blast back in the 70s. There are always some individuals who get out of hand but that’s no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

    I don’t think students behave worse than they did 30 some years ago. But today, there’s this zero tolerance mentality that my generation didn’t have to cope with. By today’s standards, we might have looked far worse than today’s student. The powers that be simpy looked the other way back then.

    The legal age to purchase beer was 18 back then and there a dozen nightclubs on Hillsborough street and close by. There were rowdies back then but nobody made such a big deal of it.

  6. packwolf 01/30/2007 at 11:07 AM #

    Hate to break the bad news to you folks; the problem goes waaaaay beyond stafford.
    Stafford is to student life, what Fowler is to athletics; the Chancellor’s “gofer”.
    The chancellor panders to the faculty senate [the clueless ones who actually run the Un.].
    15 years ago there was a paper written by an alum who accurately pointed out that under monteith’s reign, the Un. was anti-student, anti-social and anti athletic. The paper called for the Un. to set an immediate goal of 75% grad. rate, encourage athletic excellence and an active social life on campus. Monteith smugly ignored the requests, much to the glee of the faculty senate.
    This is primarily the reason that MAF will always be held in high esteem by students and alums and despised by the faculty who ran her off.
    MAF understood that the Un. exists for THE STUDENTS, NOT THE FACULTY.
    This is precisely the reason that the Board of Trustees should NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, promote a faculty member [from NCSU] to the chancellor’s position.
    The “vision” of the faculty senate is precisely what was alleged, creating a commuter , technical/community college.
    They are well on their way to totaly destroying the Greek system and would do the same with athletics if they get half a chance.
    For now they will have to be satisfied that their efforts have been successfull in putting both of our major revenue sports in the toilet.
    The board of trustees have failed in their responsibility [appointing the best chancellor possible] and the students/alums will bear the burden of that horrendous decision.
    When the alums/students/fans/coaches, pack CF despite the abyssmal results; Stafford and Dr. No step forward to curtail tailgating and student access to seating.
    Anything short of a student march to the chancellor’s home with a complete list of grievances, will be ignored.
    They don’t care whether the students find 4/5 years of their life in Raleigh, to be sadly lacking in it’s totality.

  7. class of 74 01/30/2007 at 11:26 AM #

    ^Agree with much of what you say. Larry Montieth and that whole cabal from the early nineties is largely responsible for the deterioration of the university that many of us remember and wish would return. Many beautiful edifices today but the life is gone from what I recall prior to the Monteith era.

  8. Evroccck 01/30/2007 at 11:38 AM #

    Stafford has a been a pecker since he started.

    cancelling campout, which don’t let the rumors fool you, was his doing b/c i tried to fight him on it for ages. http://www.evankroberts.com/2006/10/who-is-running-that-circus-at-NC-state.html

    they’ve killed
    Campout for tickets
    pigstock
    brent road
    lawn party
    any fun on hillsborough

    I’m glad I had my fun there and don’t have to deal with missing all these traditions.

  9. ncsu96 01/30/2007 at 12:03 PM #

    Did Monteith do anything good for NC state?
    Serious question.

  10. choppack1 01/30/2007 at 12:05 PM #

    The linked column would be better if it specifically addressed changes which had taken place under his regime and how it negatively impacted student life.

    Some of what has happened surrounding the campus is out of Stafford’s control. However, as stated in the original post – I’m very concerned that NC State is becoming a “commuter school”. The oppressive atmosphere that exists on campus on serves to drive that point home.

    I went to state when good times were starting to dwindle – but there were still good times. We had the Lawn party and Wolfstock. We also had several “celebrations” on Hillsborough Street. I saw the beginnings of Brent Road – something that more than anything else highlights the dangers of becoming a commuter school. Is it any coincidence that we saw the rise of Brent Road when the hammer had come down very hard on those living on or closest to campus?

  11. class of 74 01/30/2007 at 12:16 PM #

    “Did Monteith do anything good for NCSU?”
    Answer: Yes he retired! But too late for my taste.

  12. ncsumatman 01/30/2007 at 12:22 PM #

    I don’t think kids are any rowdier today then they were back in the day, but the university is in a sprawling urban setting, with well over 30,000 students. Congestion and sheer volume of partying students causes concern, if not problems.

    I loved my time at NCSU, but b/c of the dwindling student life, my children will go to SEC schools if I have anything to say. I did law school @ Bama, my g/f went to Ole Miss, and I had great friends @ Auburn & Georgia. Sadly, my 4 & 1/2 years @ NCSU couldn’t compare to my 3 years in Tuscaloosa. Unfortunately, I don’t see things ever getting better @ State.

  13. mafpack 01/30/2007 at 12:30 PM #

    As a current student (for the second time) I can honestly say that the majority of students on campus don’t have a clue about most of the traditions listed in this thread, nor do they realize how integral they were to previous generations of the WolfPack Family.

    Sad really. They don’t have a clue what they’re missing and as such, have very little incentive to fight back against an administration that seems bent on turning NCSU into a suitcase commuter college. Gratz to the Technician for carrying the torch of student life (or at least attempting too) – keep up the good work and thanks to StateFans for showing that (yet again) the alumni DO care about what happens between Western Blvd and Hillsborough Street.

  14. StateFans 01/30/2007 at 12:39 PM #

    Get off Monteith’s back. He rode around campus once in a wheel chair to feel the plight of the handicapped. Other than destroying our athletics department, ^that is the only thing most people remember about Monteith’s era.

  15. wolfbuff 01/30/2007 at 12:55 PM #

    The story started off strong, but fizzled at the end. I’m sure he was trying to write a balanced story, but it’s like the more he thought about it, the weaker the story became – much like the student leadership he criticized in the beginning. That said, it at least starts the discussion.

    I had a rich student experience in the 80s, living on campus for 1½ years and another 3 years in a fraternity. I was part of the first Lawn Party, have several fond memories of times on Hillsborough St, Western Blve, and on the brickyard, but I think Brent Rd was after my time. Society has changed and there is definitely less tolerance for some things these days. I hate to see student life eroded to the point that State becomes a commuter school, but it sure seems that’s where it’s headed. If so, that will spell doom for the university as a whole. The faculty had better wake up and recognize that or they’ll all be teaching night classes to working professionals.

  16. highstick 01/30/2007 at 1:03 PM #

    Don’t know how much you can blame on any one person, but it’s definitely part of the political correctness trend that sickens me!

    I guess Alice Cooper’s concert on the soccer field with all of the “weed burning” wouldn’t be acceptable anymore???

  17. Lee Fowler 01/30/2007 at 1:13 PM #

    Agree with all of the “commuter school” comments. I am of the opinion that our university “leadership” will not be happy until we’ve become the Old Dominion of North Carolina.

    Sad.

  18. Gene 01/30/2007 at 1:18 PM #

    The death knell for NCSU student life happened my senior year, in 1995-1996, when the good folks, who live in nice homes behind Hillsborough street successfully lobbied the city of Raleigh to change the parking laws and ban parking in front of their houses. They had a legitimate complaint: kids were getting drunk and causing a mess on their lawns, sometimes.

    The parking ban is when you saw shops unable to stay open on Hillsborough street – even the friggin’ McDonalds closed.

    Hillsborough street has never been the same.

    I’m not mad at the city of Raleigh for put the parking ban in place, but not thinking about the consequences and how it would impact a place, where businesses should thrive has hurt the city and NCSU.

    No attempts at alternate parking arrangements were made, no attempt at increasing bus service to Hillsborough street / NCSU was made. They just put the ban in place and let businesses outside of NCSU’s campus to hang in the wind.

  19. CarnifeX 01/30/2007 at 1:26 PM #

    ALICE COOPER ON THE SOCCER FIELD!?!?!?!?

    holy shit, thats awesome! the best thing that I got while at NCSU was De La Soul (pretty cool) however it was part of the effort to kill the brent rd. party (same weekend, had to give alternatives to going).

    (DMX gave a free [45 min.] concert at Mission Valley too, don’t know if that counts or not tho)

  20. choppack1 01/30/2007 at 1:39 PM #

    Personally – I think – unless they are very ambitious – the commuter school thing will only gain ground.

    Fortunately or unfortunately, NC State is located in part of a thriving city. Raleigh isn’t the same city it was even 15 years ago. NC State and Raleigh have had a tenouis relationship for as long as I can remember. While NC State is a part of Raleigh, Raleigh doesn’t really need NC State. That need is a key element for tolerating the Tomfoolery you find on a college campus.

    It doesn’t help matter that the person who owns many of the buildings on Hillsborough Street and residents nearby have been less than friendly to potential business owners (from the rumors I’ve heard.)

    In addition, the growth of the Centenial campus and all of the growth on the other side of Western Blvd has served to make NC State less intimate and cozy, and further marginalize Hillsborough Street.

    The creative part would be encouraging businesses to open in and around the campus venues and finding a way for the surrounding to buy into a revitalized Hillsborough Street. You may even have to do some kind of land swamp w/ WRAL and Western – which has effectively cut NC State in half so that there’s more of a centralized feeling to the university.

    In abscence of this kind of stuff, there are still events which can make one feel apart of stuff. In the past, those events were things like Wolfstock, camping out, tailgating and going to games and even concerts in an on-campus arena. We’ve seen what’s happened to those events.

  21. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/30/2007 at 1:49 PM #

    The problem is probably more of the John Edwards of the world than the Tom Staffords. Liability lawsuits without limits make it very difficult to have a fun atmosphere because you must focus on having a safe atmosphere. In my experience once you are past about 16 years old it is almost impossible to have fun when safety is the primary concern.

    A student has gets a hot cinder in the eye from a bon fire next thing you know NC State is paying out big bucks. Someone gets attacked at a camp out and the university didn’t provide enough security. There are people in this world that don’t think any accidents should ever happen and they will crusade until they are dead to try and keep anyone from getting hurt.

  22. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/30/2007 at 1:56 PM #

    “In addition, the growth of the Centenial campus and all of the growth on the other side of Western Blvd has served to make NC State less intimate and cozy, and further marginalize Hillsborough Street.”

    I would add if a developer came in and bought Mission Valley Shopping Center and ‘North Hills’d’ it for a campus community you could see a thriving area. The K Mart property on Western is ripe for redevlopment as well. That property is 75% parking lot. I can only imagine what someone with money could do putting in some bars, condos, and other things 20 somethings like to spend the parents money on.

  23. StateFans 01/30/2007 at 2:09 PM #

    The problem is probably more of the John Edwards of the world than the Tom Staffords. Liability lawsuits without limits make it very difficult to have a fun atmosphere because you must focus on having a safe atmosphere.

    I don’t disagree with the impact of risk management on the student experience. It is a point that many have made in their comments.

    The question is — WHY/HOW are so many other schools able to manage through the last 20 years and STILL maintaining such a significantly more appealing social fabric on campus than NC State?

    These risk management issues are the same everywhere. Yet, the impact of the issues are not the same everywhere. That is where strategic direction, leadership, innovation and commitment make the difference.

    NC State’s greek population (I believe) is now around 9% of the student population. I don’t care what your personal thoughts on “being greek” are – the tangible and undisputed research on the topic indicates that stronger (and larger) greek populations create significantly more vibrant campus experiences AND more contributions back to the University later in life.

    Why would we NOT want that? How can the University have sat back while this important component that contributes so much service (and social appeal) to the University contracts by 50% in 15 years?

    Have you ever been to University of Florida? Auburn? UNC? Texas? Georgia? Clemson? Wisconsin? Alabama? Florida State? Tennessee? dozens of others?

    The student experience at NC State resembles the student experience at places like the University of Houston a helluva lot more than it does other ACC, SEC, Big 12 and Big 10 schools.

    Q: The one consistent piece connected to all of these trends?

    A: Tom Stafford.

  24. newt 01/30/2007 at 2:16 PM #

    The student experience is directly related to recruiting for athletics and so very relevant to this site. I have often said that if we want to compete with Duke and UNC in athletics, we students and Alumni need to help make the campus a more special place.

  25. Sam92 01/30/2007 at 2:24 PM #

    all interesting points.

    makes me wonder: when was the last time N.C. State built a dorm? the student population is increasing, so the demand for student housing must, correspondingly, be increasing. if no new student housing is being built, then the school is necessarily becoming more of a commuter school — a sad turn of events.

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