Three Home ACC Games…

…three complete and unequivocal ass kickings. Today’s was probably the worst, because of the listlessness I saw at times. Also, our guys need to learn that you can play hard on D and still play smart. We seem to have two (equally lousy) settings – 1) Don’t even put your hands up; and 2) Bite wildly on any and all ball fakes.

As noted in the game thread comments, Lavin and Mussberger did a very nice job of being fair to Sidney and praising what we have to offer as a program. They even went so far as to say that the cupboard was pretty bare when Sendek left (and completely bereft of PGs), without taking a single shot at NC State or its fans. Were you listening, Jimmy Dykes? That was fair and professional broadcasting.

On the flip side, we have played two ACC road games (where I expected things would get ugly early and stay that way) and came away with a very competitive loss and a blowout win. Of course, it may just be that any good team will kill us, but we can stay with any bad/mediocre team regardless of location. But I’m not sure that caliber of opponent explains things 100% – perhaps our guys are putting too much pressure on themselves playing before the home crowd. Or maybe it’s just a small sample size fluke.

If you want a positive to take away, here’s one – we have fairly consistently handled the competition in our “tier” (i.e., against lower division major conference teams and mid/low majors). As SFN noted earlier this month, this young, undermanned team suffered no embarrassing losses (from a program standpoint). We played an awful Wake team, and won handily. State has hung in against “middle tier” teams like Cincinnati, West Virginia, UVA, and Michigan, winning the home contest. And against “first division” teams like Duke, Alabama, Clemson, and Boston College…we got our asses handed to us.

Help is on the way. We will be a significantly more talented team next season, with 2 at least viable options at PG, and with good depth everywhere else. Perhaps we can move up a tier, and win more than our share against “middle of the pack” teams, with the occasional upset (while continuing to not slip up against weak foes). That likely gets us an NCAA bid in March 2008. The following year (barring an early exodus to the NBA of our frontcourt), we could easily move up yet another tier, and be a legitimate contender.

It’s more likely that there will be additional bumps along the way as Sid learns the ropes of coaching in the ACC, but this optimistic scenario is certainly possible.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

06-07 Basketball General

86 Responses to Three Home ACC Games…

  1. vtpackfan 01/20/2007 at 8:40 PM #

    One thing to remember is that the team is young and they are at the stage where certain events now can shape them in the seasons to follow. With all the talk of the DT’s and other Pack legends that these guys represent, their is the flip side. Yes, it is important for these young players to feel a sense of pride and belonging to a proud tradition here at NCSU. But, as today firmly proves, there is the present situation and new chapters being writte like todays most lop-sided home loss to Duke in thirty years. These guys are getting dealt some home cooked humble pie. If you don’t think they will have some scores to settle in the seasons to follow, then fine. All I’m saying is that come next year, these home losses are going to still bothering a few guys, and pep talks about being apart of a winning tradition won’t be whats important. If it’s not eye for eye from these boy’s and the staff then something wrong.

    The comments about some guys failing to show up in a post game interview kind of strike me as odd. Against BC it was the same thing. Is there the obvious problem that a few guys don’t show up and we can’t sub them out the substantial amount warranted? Or is this code speak from the NBA for “he had an off night”? Or is there some disconnects between Coach Lowe and some of these player? We are going to give him all the time he needs to transition this program from one spectrum of basketball philosophy to another, thats for sure. But what’s this thing about guys not “showing up”, can someone help me ’cause this this strikes me as odd?

  2. choppack1 01/20/2007 at 8:48 PM #

    I don’t like the “youf” excuse. Duke started 2 sophomores and a frosh…and they’re a young team – and they totally destroyed us.

    Right now, we just don’t play good Defense. We play what I refer to as WF D – playing decent defense for the first 20-25 seconds, then breaking down w/ the shot clock. Our guys don’t line up in good defensive stances – and we don’t play good help D.

    It’s not about youth. It’s about execution and effort. We lacked sorely in both departments today. It’s hard for me to believe that the same team we saw play today was the team we saw a week ago. I was really hoping that win would serve as a springboard.

  3. vtpackfan 01/20/2007 at 8:59 PM #

    How many ACC games and NCAA tourney games have Nelson, Paulus, and McRoberts played in? We’re young in experience, not what undergraduate level of Sociology we’re in. Thats where time will tell how certain players are shaped by an embarrasment like the one dispalyed this afternoon.

  4. VaWolf82 01/20/2007 at 9:09 PM #

    State has no PG, no reliable ball handlers, no bench, and what looks like below-average team speed. Yet many posters here and at PP still look at each up-coming game through rosy-red glasses. Until something changes, I really don’t understand why so many posters here and at PP expect a miracle for each game.

    I still remember CC smoking UNC for 30+. It could happen agaiin….but won’t happen on a consistent basis.

  5. SWEETS 01/20/2007 at 9:13 PM #

    All due respect to Sid – Fergie stunk up the place. He is horrible. I sell cars dont coach bball but we have a long season is he gets much PT. Turn overs lack of D. He needs to hold down the bench. What about more PT for Neman (sp). He provided great quality mins earler the season. I dont know the answer. IMHO pack was embarrassed on national TV.

    Side note – as mentioned in previous posts the refs provided more home cooking for the devils than I have ever seen. (A la Deno). It was unbeliveable. It is like they are afraid of him. As noted in SFN previous post…..

    Our boys need to Gut up or it will be a long season…..

  6. Champs 01/20/2007 at 9:20 PM #

    Maybe our complaints about Dykes had an effect. Or may Lavin and Mussberger are a lot more knowledgeable and professional. Probably the second part.

  7. tooyoungtoremember 01/20/2007 at 9:50 PM #

    Thanks SFN for the optimism. I missed it after the loss to Clemson. Nice job of putting things in perspective.

  8. E-RO 01/20/2007 at 10:02 PM #

    Costner needs to learn he doesn’t need to attempt to go coast to coast. He’s a great player, but he doesn’t have the ball handling skills to try it. If you remember he tried that today against Duke, and he lost the ball.

  9. redfred2 01/20/2007 at 10:19 PM #

    Regardless of depth, there was no excuse for the Duke players to be able to get free so often, so easily, and so EARLY in this game, especially when the Pack had just had a week off. Our guys backed away when Duke drove to the basket, and then stood flat footed as rebounds came off. I hate to say this, but it seems Grant is unaware that the most important part of defense, which is position in relation to the basket. If his man goes left, he goes left, but not far enough to stay between his man and the basket, and he cannot shut down penetration because of that. He may be right there on his man, but it’s like the angles don’t register or something.

    Another thing, out of the seven players with any significant minutes today, we averaged 2 personal fouls per player. What is that, when you’re getting drubbed??? Two players did have 3 fouls, but no one was in any real trouble. I think of fouls as something that you are given and allowed, something that slows and sometimes frustrates the other team, and that if you are not close to your allowable limit at the end (especially in a loss), then you’re just not taking advantage of the rules.

    Oh well, I do not even care about the loss or the final margin, but I am pretty disappointed in what I witnessed today. To end it with an excuse, I do agree with vtpackfan about the lack of game experience though, especially BIG game experience, and this was the first time they had faced K and Duke.

  10. wolfonthehill 01/20/2007 at 10:29 PM #

    ^^ I, for one, am pretty damn glad Costner takes it end-to-end sometimes. That was responsible for one of the biggest highlights in an otherwise dim season…

  11. wayofthemaster 01/20/2007 at 10:59 PM #

    I haven’t read the game thread comments yet so forgive me if these points have been made ad nauseam, but I’ve got to get them off of my mind before I blow an aneurysm.

    Is it just me or…

    Is Costner a bit of a gunner? That kid never met a shot he didn’t like.

    Do you think Grant and Fells would rather receive a prostate exam from Dr. J than play an ounce of defense.

    Was that game as brutal to watch as any over the last decade?

    Are the players aware that the bounce pass is legal?

    Will most Wolfpack fans die happy if Grant never attempts another three-pointer in his college career?

    Is defense all about effort? If so, what does that say about the “on-court” character of some of these players?

  12. redfred2 01/20/2007 at 11:06 PM #

    Just to clarify, this is exactly what I expected before the season started. I give the coach and players some credit for making us think we had at least a slight chance to beat Duke today. I figured that they were bound to lose by some really big margins, but I thought that they would be playing really hard and scrapping there way through. Today, they only did one of those things.

    It’s one game, and a big one, but there’s still a lot of BB left, and I haven’t forgotten why we’re where we are.

    GO PACK!!!

  13. FlaunPack 01/20/2007 at 11:28 PM #

    I agree that the TV commentating was better than most that I’ve heard this year… esp. Lavin. He had some really nice things to say… But Musburger is basically a jackass… he had some really smart ass comments. He also included a story about when Lavin and himself were arriving to the arena, a securtiy guard said to Lavin “I wish you were over on the Wolfpack bench” WTF? two things, what was the point of telling that story?, and second, this security guard needs to be found and shot.

  14. tvp 01/20/2007 at 11:54 PM #

    In college, you are going to have players who have off nights. They aren’t mentally focused, they are having girl problems, just not feeling it, whatever.

    The problem we have is that when those guys are having an off night, or need to get benched to teach a lesson, Sid has to put in Bryan Nieman, Trevor Ferguson, or Darrell Davis.

    People were a little high coming into this game. That’s fine, but the reality is that Duke is, even with a young team, not a young program. It will take some time. I like BJD’s “roadmap”.

  15. tooyoungtoremember 01/21/2007 at 12:47 AM #

    Roadmap? That conjures up too many bad thoughts of failed foreign policy for my tastes. BJD deserves more credit than that. He’s on point.

  16. graywolf 01/21/2007 at 8:29 AM #

    I’m still optomistic about the future of NC State Basketball. This team is playing with NO guards, NO point guard. If you look at what happened yesterday, Dukes guard play killed us with moves to the basket because we have no one that can play at guard speed.
    However, the future is brighter with new recruits.
    Also, we have a coach that understands who we are as a university and that we have a glorious past in basketball. I know that Coach Lowe understands rivalries and thinks we should win them.
    Keep up the fight and go pack.

  17. c6by66 01/21/2007 at 8:38 AM #

    I was there…the arena was FINALLY full…mostly WP fans. There were some Dookies…even in the Champions Club (not all were married to State fans…do NOT give the opponents your tickets!).

    Crowd and team were in it for 5 minutes…when Dook didn’t rollover like WFU did, we seemed to panic…

    Defense was lacking…intensity was lacking….if we had an OFF NIGHT, then it really impacted us.

    When the ball didn’t fall in the first 10 minutes, that seemed to mess up our minds and rhythm…we were just a little bit off the rest of the game.

    I thought the calls were lousy, but it’s pretty hard to tell from the stands. You get a much better perspective when you listen to the commentators…but they looked ugly…about halfway through the second half I finally realized what was wrong…the Ref’s had a 20 point spread on their bets and needed to keep 21 to be in the money….JUST KIDDING….Coach K really worked the Ref’s…Sid is learning….but the old Deano tactic works.

    I think that there is a mindset that the starting 5 can NOT get into foul trouble…probably from the lack of depth. I stayed and watched the RBC conversion…needed something to take away the pain..did not listen to post game. If Sid said that some players showed up, but weren’t ready to play, then its TIME for some serious splinter gathering. I AGREE with Sid…Fells ended up with decent points and did a good job at PG. Do NOT know what happened…It was ALMOST as if the players read the blogs the week before WFU and decided to make amends.

    If you look at the box scores, we lost by the points that McCauley and Grant did NOT score. They didn’t have the lock on misses…just watched WRAL rerun their capsule….How do you MISS a Dunk and another rebound on a DUNK. We really did MISS the EASY shots….Dook did NOT do that well on D. Seems like we got rattled OR were TOO confident from the WFU win.

    This will probably have the UNX folks chortling…maybe we can sneak up on them. Hope Sid thinks about major bench time for some of the guys..HORNER looked good…Neiman is SOLID….Ferguson has NOT lived up to his hype. Maybe he needs a haircut….great intensity…but afraid to shoot and looks like the video of cars sliding around in Portland.

    Need a W next week from VA…

  18. VaWolf82 01/21/2007 at 8:50 AM #

    Ferguson has NOT lived up to his hype.

    Maybe you’ve seen something that I haven’t….but the only hype I’ve seen has come from message board posters who never saw Trevor play.

  19. DaPackster 01/21/2007 at 8:57 AM #

    Herb’s gone and he is still screwing the Pack. I can believe he gave Opie I mean fergie a scholarship. Whoever recruited Opie should do some explaining. I’m 45 yrs old and I can out run and play better defense now. Opie should be on a high school jv team, intramural team, rec league, or a church league. D-1 is out of the question. He would be a great manager right now. Opie better enjoyed his playing time now because by the time he is a junior there will not be none. Chuck would not have Opie a full ride!

    If you thought yesterday was bad wait until we play Carolina twice. They beat us by an average of 20 a half. The only acc team i think we are better than is Wake. We need to play them every chance we get. If we get into the NIT or go .500 Sidney did an outstanding job with this team. Lack of depth, post players, and no point guard. This team should have a chance for an ncaa bid next year. I look for 08/09 season to get us back to the top of the league and a top 25 team. We have to be patient, its not all bad. We have a very good rifle team and we are the defending national champs in Bass Fishing.

  20. OwenDorm83 01/21/2007 at 9:11 AM #

    My frustration with yesterday was about a lack of HEART, EFFORT and DISCIPLINE, not talent.

  21. Wulfpack 01/21/2007 at 9:15 AM #

    Does anyone else see Ferguson’s resemblance to Napoleon Dynamite?

  22. kevirose 01/21/2007 at 9:29 AM #

    Given the lack of effort and the horrific outcome, can someone please comment on TOB sandwiched between the Sims brothers. Any inside info on younger Sims? I thought that was pretty frickin’ cool that our new coach got some camera time in the stands recruiting a “big name” HS qb (I say big name, but have no idea if the kid is any good, or if he is in fact being recruited and/or considering us).

  23. choppack1 01/21/2007 at 9:49 AM #

    “State has no PG, no reliable ball handlers, no bench, and what looks like below-average team speed. Yet many posters here and at PP still look at each up-coming game through rosy-red glasses. Until something changes, I really don’t understand why so many posters here and at PP expect a miracle for each game. ”

    That’s all true, but I didn’t see a team that was “out-talented” yesterday afternoon. Ferguson, the same guy a lot of folks here are criticizing, did manage to out rebound both Fells and Grant (and Horner too) in 14 minutes of play. Sure, he’s a walking turnover and has little or no confidence right now, but at least I saw what looked like effort out there.

    And that’s where I’m frustrated. It wouldn’t bother me if I felt we were losing because we didn’t have a PG and that a point guard would come alont and make it a good team. Right now, I see effort and intensity as a bigger concern. And if you listened to Coach Lowe after the game – it’s obvious he feels that way too.

  24. Rochester 01/21/2007 at 10:23 AM #

    ^If Sid feels that way he needs to put his money where his mouth is and send a message by benching the offenders. It might cost us a game in the short term, but if people start realizing that they can sit there and watch Darrell Davis hustle his ass off then maybe they’ll learn something in time to give a better effort down the stretch.

  25. Woof Wolf 01/21/2007 at 10:51 AM #

    Duke is a very young team and they struggle when they play teams that are better than their younger players have played, i.e. losses to Marquette, VT, & GT. In terms of minutes of playing time we are much younger. It is very difficult to prepare to play against a team that is better than anyone you have ever seen up close and personal. You can watch film and work your butt off and still not be ready mentally for a team that is half a step quicker and better coached than anyone you’ve played.

    Add to that, we were playing DUKE the team that our kids grew up watching destroy people on ESPN every week. They have been one of the best, if not the best, teams in the country for the last twenty years. And don’t forget our rookie coach going up against one of the best in the history of college basketball. There were plenty of butterflies to go around.

    Then the game starts and nothing works. Someone is in your face the whole time you are on offense whether you have the ball or not. The passing lanes that you have been able to create all year are not there. There are no open shots. On defense it’s about the same. You do what you’ve be taught, you think you have good position and then someone blows around you or zips a pass and there is an open shot or a lay up. It gets really frustrating really fast. If you are a young player on an experienced team, the coach sends someone in for you and talks to you and gives you time to regroup.

    In our case you get a quick timeout, some adjustments and you’re back out there with teammates who are in the same shape you are. The adjustments the coach made may or may not work for about two trips up the court and then they adjust. If you are more talented and better coached that the other team you may figure out what will and will not work and get back in the game. Unfortunately yesterday that was not the case.

    There are plenty of things to complain about from yesterday’s game and we’ve covered them pretty well, but the truth is we were out manned, out coached and got our butts kicked. We will be a better team Wednesday night because of the things we learned about ourselves yesterday.

    HEART, EFFORT and DISCIPLINE: I too was disappointed in these areas. But the truth is when things are going to hell and nothing is working, there are two pretty typical reactions. Ether these guys are really screwing up so I’m going to take over and do it myself, or I’m really screwing this up so I’m going to get out of the way. Neither of these is good, but hopefully the main problem is a lack of experience and not a lack of desire

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