Reflections on the Coaching Search

I’ve toyed around with the idea of pointing out some silly comments swirling around after State hired Tom O’Brien, but normal-life, Christmas, and an emergency at work kept getting in the way. I had about decided to let the stupidity drift off into the sunset, but Bob Lipper’s column on a quiet Saturday morning changed my mind.

He’s [TOB] also the anti-Amato, a major reason he was hired.

What AD would use personality as a major criterion for a coaching search? Has Fowler ever even hinted that “personality” was one of his criteria for the coaching search? If I missed it, please point it out and I will turn this piece into another look at the Mind of Lee Fowler.

Go through a little mental exercise with me. Run through a list of Div I coaches and see how many that you can come up with that have the outgoing, public personality of Amato. There just aren’t many. The key point is that no matter who turned out to be State’s next football coach, he could most likely be portrayed as the “anti-Amato.” Insight like Lipper’s (and plenty of others) is about as useful as saying that the sun is going to rise in the east.

Beyond the typical nonsense blurted about as a coaching search is underway, what was State looking for? Let’s start with a short quote from Chancellor Oblinger:

Oblinger said, “We’re not going for somebody who has no experience to take the job, so we know there’s going to be an expense associated with it. …

My guess on the major goal of the coaching search has nothing to do with personality and everything to do with history. You can be sure that there are plenty of grey-haired gentlemen with contacts in high places that remember the Mike O’Cain vs Mack Brown era. I can’t imagine that any State fan wants to repeat those years…especially those that have invested millions into State’s football facilities. Do you think that some of those gentlemen might have given Fowler a short history lesson? Do you think that someone might have mentioned to Oblinger that they would “hate to see that happen again”?

I don’t understand why more hasn’t been written on State’s coaching search in the context of Butch Davis being hired at UNC. I wouldn’t necessarily expect someone from Richmond to pick up on this….and it is obviously expecting too much from the “professional” writers in the Triangle.

And his [Amato’s] efforts frequently unraveled when snagged by boneheaded sideline decisions and penalty-inflicted breakdowns.

Isn’t selective memory a wonderful thing? How many times did missed extra points, missed field goals inside the 40 yard line, and fumbles lead to State losses? What about the ineffective play at QB since Rivers left?

In the end, the coaches are responsible for the wins and the losses. When losses mount, jobs are lost. Here at SFN, we have written many entries to summarize the entire picture with football and basketball. I guess it is too much to expect people who get paid for their commentaries to do the same.

Never argue with people who buy ink by the gallon.
Tommy Lasorda

I wonder if Tommy figured this out by personal experience or just observation. I wonder if Chuck has figured it out now.

About VaWolf82

Engineer living in Central Va. and senior curmudgeon amongst SFN authors One wife, two kids, one dog, four vehicles on insurance, and four phones on cell plan...looking forward to empty nest status. Graduated 1982

Chuck Amato General NCS Football Tom O'Brien

24 Responses to Reflections on the Coaching Search

  1. justaguy 12/16/2006 at 1:11 PM #

    I live in VA and get the Times-Dispatch. I read Lipper’s column early this morning. I saw his anti-Amato statement within the context of the article to mean that State went for substance over style. Nothing more, nothing less. I don’t believe Lipper has any specific knowledge about Fowler’s mindset during the search. His comment was based on observation, not conversation with Fowler. It is quite a stretch to take Lipper’s comment and turn it into an indictment of Fowler. There may be other well-founded reasons that Fowler is not qualified to be an AD anywhere, but Lipper’s comments are not among them.
    [emphasis added]

    You are reading something other than what I intended. Lipper is simply speculating…and not doing a very good job at logical reasoning. Any AD that used personality as a major hiring point would not be qualified to organize a picnic lunch. However, LF has been known to stick his foot through his mouth and out the other end…so I left room for that possibility. My “indictment” was intended to be directed at Lipper. I edited the offending paragraph to remove confusion.
    VaWolf82

  2. burnbarn 12/16/2006 at 1:20 PM #

    I agree on the Fowler comment above.

  3. c6by66 12/16/2006 at 1:29 PM #

    You know what…

    We had 4 years of excitement and 3 years of disappointment…In that period of time, we learned a lot…

    So, does the SFN want to trade the 4 years of PR away, if the “GODS” will also take away the 3 years of disappointment?

    I certainly hope not….CTC did a lot of great things for NCSU and we know that he was a STATE ALUM THROUGH and THROUGH…

    I really don’t care for some OUT OF STATE writer to lecture us…He made a few points…but I’ll bet my bottom dollar that many of the posters here are more intelligent and are making more buck$ than some one who may be a UNX or other LA Journalism School graduate…

    Tommy L. is right…just read the N&O…

    I would REALLY like to see a REVIEW (as David Glenn has started) on the coaching search…

    I like TOB…and I liked CTC…can’t say that about FUF…getting into his mind would be a small task requiring small tools…

    OK…I’ll quit…It’s time to go the RBC and watch Sid and company..

    Merry Christmas Wolfpack Fans…

    CHUCK…Keep driving your ‘Vette and collecting that severance package…see you at Amedeo’s…

  4. roandaddy 12/16/2006 at 1:48 PM #

    Personally I have lived in Raleigh and followed the Pack, but I am a SEC fan. That said.. here is an “outsider” opinion I have shared with many Pack friends.

    On the personal side.. I will miss CTC due to his off the wall behavior, comments, and “game of inches” quotes. He was entertaining, but not in the way I would want my university represented. His antics were able to generate some publicity, but since they weren’t backed up with wins.. they became areas of ridicule. His mentor, Bowden for example used to create fear on the sideline, now he is just an old man wearing a silly floppy hat. My favorite CTC moment was when he dubbed the word of the year “discipline”, then led the ACC in penalities.

    The hiring of TOB was met by my Pack buddies with cheer and grumbling. One felt you hired a winner, the other feels trapped in “Herbatory”. As the outsider observer, I think its EXACTLY what the Pack needs. Someone who can win and smooth over the negative image in the press and get some wins. Will he win a national championship? Probably not.. but he takes away the risk of a 3-9 season that is marked with personal fouls and dumb plays. In a nutshell, he won’t swing for the fences, but he won’t lay an egg strking out either. My prediction is he will move you up a level in the ACC, setting the stage for the next big hire in five years.

    This isn’t meant as a slam on the Pack.. but just an outsider opinion. The captain of the ship feels much more in control now.

  5. packpigskinfan23 12/16/2006 at 1:55 PM #

    man would I love some Amedeo’s right now!!!!

    roandaddy- I think what you have said is pretty much how most Pack fans feel. We have faith in O’Brien to bring us up to the next level of the ACC(championship)… We dont EXPECT a National Championship, but wouldnt turn one down either. What we DONT expect is 3-9 seasons… we dont want any 5-7 seasons… no more of that…. no way.

  6. CarnifeX 12/16/2006 at 2:14 PM #

    Unfortunately I think Fouler has made his job pretty secure. This hire has got to be a “homerun” with those in charge. Lets face it, the BOT is more interested in academics than athletics (the way it should be in my opinion, raise the value of that piece of paper I have on the wall), that being said, TOB is exactly what their looking for. Someone with a record to quell those “lunatic fringe” while maintaining the highest academic standards. I am excited about this hire, We should field some super competitive teams and have some class while we do it. No offense to Chuck, I know you loved your school, but you did kinda tarnish its appearance to the outside with all the glitz and glam (see: “OG” sunglasses) and no substance (read: WINS). I’m actually somewhat surprised at how excited I am not only by TOB’s football record, but by his academic record as well.

    GO PACK!!!

  7. Champs 12/16/2006 at 3:04 PM #

    What is this hangup that these empty-headed-journalists have about NCSU and their coaches that they continually spout off things about us not liking a coach because of personality? Has the thought every crossed their minds or mind (singular), whichever is the case, that maybe, just maybe we judge coaches on Wins and Losses and not some other obtuse reason?

    Funny how the fact that in terms of personality, Herb and Chuck were polar opposites yet the fanbase or at least a large majority of the fanbase was unhappy with both of them by the time they left or were fired, has escaped these writer’s observations. Hmmm, if it wasn’t personality just what was it that these two head coaches had in common? Yes, that’s right in general neither of them were living up to the fanbases expectations.

    If it were a personality thing the fans would have called for their heads their 1st or 2nd year not year 7 and 10.

    Fowler, despite not being a very big fan of his I don’t, neither do I believe the writers of this blog, believe for one minute that Lipper is correct and Fowler based his decision on such a foolish a thing as personality.

    And lastly, I also don’t believe that with 6500 students graduating each year that 20 graduating football players or 3 graduating basketball players have any reflection on the value of my NCSU degree. People have just been feed that garbage by the media and they should start to think for themselves.

    When I interview for a job I am never asked about the academic standing of the athletes at my alma mater. NCSU punished themselves for 16 years in BB because of the implantation of this idea into the heads of the people who make the hiring and firing decisions. They were played just like a hand puppet by the local media.

    News release on the # of graduates this past year:

  8. class of 74 12/16/2006 at 4:07 PM #

    You mention the Butch Davis/UNC situation and I’ll always believe that move expedited the removal of Amato as much as his last year’s record. It was apparent we were in downward trend and the enthusiasm created by the Davis hire would have probably only pushed us further down and set us back in recruiting in this state too. Their move forced our move and I for one am glad it happened. Both schools upgraded their coaches and now we’ll find out who got the better deal. The next three or four years will be some kind of fun to watch.

  9. mwcric 12/16/2006 at 4:53 PM #

    Please don’t give Lipper the credit of mentioning his column anymore, in any context. As a 10-year Richmonder, I can tell you from personal experience that his column is one of the consistently worst I’ve ever had the displeasure to peruse. It’s not like Doyell, who is intentionally antagonistic in order to generate a response to prove that he’s widely read; Lipper is just a dolt. Go to Times-Dispatch.com, find an archive of his columns, and I challenge you to find a single one, regardless of topic, that does not contain at least one sentence fragment, one disjointed metaphor that makes absolutely no sense, and from October thru March at least one reference to Roy Williams or Coach K – regardless of their relevance to the topic at hand.

    The Times-Dispatch Sports section is oustanding in its general coverage, but as a whole has about the worst crew of columnissts of any daily in the nation.

    Again – please don’t give Bob any reason to be smiug by giving him the idea that any of his tripe is read anywhere else except bathroom stalls at Richmond-area businesses.

  10. beowolf 12/16/2006 at 6:32 PM #

    VA:

    I had flirted with thoughts of writing a post-hire wrap-up of local media. I had even considered comparing how the same writers who joined in the waving of palm fronds and shouting of hosannas at Butch Davis were so quick to snipe at Wolfpack fans and write about how we were “resigned to accept” Tom O’Brien. (Caulton Tudor as a notable exception here — he was professional.) I thought about going back and showing how the tone of the last three years of their writings about Amato changed suddenly the last two weeks when it dawned on them NC State might fire him — how he went from a joke in their eyes to, gosh, a guy who’d raised so much money and needed more time and goes to church every week and bleeds red, etc.

    Then I decided, who the hell cares? That’s too much work to re-prove that triangles have three sides. Screw them.

  11. geojim1990 12/16/2006 at 6:54 PM #

    Bill Maloney over at AOL-sportsbolg contributed a bit of tripe last week about Tom O’Brien’s “curious” move to NC State. He argued that the downsides outweigh the upsides. Here is how he represented the downsides:

    “But those seem to be the only real benefits to his move. Here are some of the downsides from O’Brien’s perspective:
    1. He prides himself on supporting the student athlete. At NC State he’ll find conforming his current players and the football infrastructure to this mindset will take time.
    2. O’Brien supposedly disliked BC Football’s place in the Boston Sports Landscape. So now he has moved to a smaller market where NC State Football is about fifth in priority behind UNC Basketball, Duke Basketball, NC State Basketball and UNC Football.
    3. He will become a much more public figure in Raleigh. From personal experience I’ve seen O’Brien jogging through Chestnut Hill unnoticed by those around him. He can shop, eat, walk in Boston and not be bothered. That won’t be the same in Raleigh. He’ll also have to perform and be a part of many more dinners and booster fundraisers which does not play to his passion.
    4. The media and pressure will be much greater at NC State. At BC he could win 7 to 9 games every year and very few people got on his case about the blown opportunities. He won’t get the same leeway in Raleigh.
    So in the end, his position doesn’t seem that improved. If it was truly about the money than O’Brien will pay for every penny the first time a reporter gets critical, the first time someone asks for an autograph at a restaurant and most importantly the first time fans don’t show up for a Bowl game because NC State has a basketball game on the same day.”

    As to the first point; I wonder if Mr Maloney recalls the fabulous “student-athlete” supported program that TOB inherited at BC when he got there. I really don’t need to comment on the 2nd point. Point #2 demonstrates absolutely that Maloney knows nothing of the sports landscape in & around Raleigh (behind UNC football?). I’ve never seen anywhere that TOB has expressed a desire not to be “bothered” at all about football. I feel certain that if he takes a jog in some north Raleigh park near his home he won’t be barricaded from advancing by an adoring mob. As far as point 4 goes, there are a couple of reasons for dismissal: there are very few people in Raleigh that would give TOB a difficult time about a 9-win season, & the tone of point #4 indicates that TOB would be content to just be pretty good in the ACC when he’s given every indication that he desires more…much more.

    Here’s the link:
    http://nfl-gossip.aolsportsblog.com/2006/12/07/tom-o-brien-and-nc-state-was-it-all-about-the-money/

  12. E-RO 12/16/2006 at 7:12 PM #

    I don’t know how all the recruits feel about TOB, however I know Olympic WR and NC State Committed Steven Howard likes TOB a lot better than Amato. TOB might negatively effect some guys (which I really doubt if they get to know the guy) but it seemed to me that Howard really likes TOB. When I spoke with Olympic HC Maurice Flowers, he seemed to like the guy too.

  13. forst8 12/16/2006 at 10:18 PM #

    I bet TOB would disagree violently with the assertion that he won’t swing for the fences and probably won’t win a NC. Of course, probably 98% of fb coaches do not win NCs so I guess that is a pretty safe statement but to say these things about TOB at this point in time is pretty silly.

  14. beowolf 12/17/2006 at 12:02 AM #

    That’s crap about UNC football has a higher priority in this area than NC State football. They (UNC) are in the position of having to upgrade significantly to catch up with us.

    It is true about college basketball being a higher priority, but I think NC State football and basketball fandom are complimentary.

  15. GAWolf 12/17/2006 at 1:41 AM #

    The problem I see is UNC has brand recognition like NC State could only dream of. While I agree that our football program is head and shoulders above UNC’s right now, it’s the capitalistic view of what Carolina is versus NC State that concerns me. They have a high-profile coach in football now, and I fear that we may have missed our chance to gain a lot of speed for years to come. We missed an opportunity to catch up the basketball program through the 90’s, and I hope we didn’t do the same through the early 2000’s with football….

  16. VaWolf82 12/17/2006 at 8:44 AM #

    2. O’Brien supposedly disliked BC Football’s place in the Boston Sports Landscape. So now he has moved to a smaller market where NC State Football is about fifth in priority behind UNC Basketball, Duke Basketball, NC State Basketball and UNC Football.

    Bill Baloney can order the programs in any order that he desires….however he accomplishes nothing and can draw no meaningful conclusions. The simple fact is that Duke and UNC athletics do not compete with State for “priority”. Fans support their favorite college for whatever reason and do not switch back and forth between teams.

    The simple fact that C-F has been sold out throughout Amato’s tenure shows that State’s FB program rates higher with its fans than UNC FB does with its fans. How anyone thinks that BB support has anything to do with a FB program is beyond me. If you look at % filled, then State FB clearly ranks ahead of State BB.

    So in summary, Bill Baloney at AOL sportsblog is dead wrong on priority. But even if he was right about relative priority in the Triangle, it wouldn’t prove anything because of the great support State fans show for its FB program.

  17. geojim1990 12/17/2006 at 11:47 AM #

    I think VaWolf82 captured Maloney’s bigest blunder(^), but I also missed another big whopper; “…most importantly the first time fans don’t show up for a Bowl game because NC State has a basketball game on the same day.” I can’t even imagine where that statement came from, other than from out of his ass. If he’d bothered to find out anything at all about NC State football he would have quickly discovered that the fans have a reputation for traveling very well, especially to bowls.

  18. roandaddy 12/17/2006 at 11:52 AM #

    Honestly.. I have never head a straight answer to this question. What is the Pack’s #1 sport… basketball or football? Which would you rather be good at? Sometimes I think Pack fans suffer from swinging back and forth between sports and going with whatever is working vs working toward a championship. Personally, I think Butch will use UNC as a springboard to the next job. He will turn them around.. give them 8,9 win seasons.. then move to a bigger job. Maybe FSU, Penn State, or another big league team.

    What does this have to do with the current entry? State’s administration and its fans have given great support to both programs. Please keep comments focused on the current topic. VaWolf82

  19. geojim1990 12/17/2006 at 2:05 PM #

    Another small nit to pick with Lipper’s column. He correctly states that O’Brien was sited 8 times by the coach’s association for superior athlete graduation while at BC & Amato was “zip for 7” while at NC State. To be fair to Amato, part of the reason for this is due to recruiting superior athletes that could enter the NFL draft early. The flip-side of that is of course that Amato couldn’t due very much with superior athletes (but that’s a different subject that has been well covered). But Lipper’s mentioning this factoid has nothing to do with the merits of “poise over antics”. There is no obvious reason why a coach who graduates athletes successfully could not have an outrageous personality. In other words, Lipper slips a bit of information into his article that does nothing for his argument. This just tells me that Lipper probably has a personal preference for stoic personalities in coaches.

  20. geojim1990 12/17/2006 at 2:07 PM #

    Oops, (^) that should read, “…do very much…”, of course.

  21. joe 12/17/2006 at 7:06 PM #

    Amato recruited about 150 guys in his 7 years. How many left early for the NFL? – maybe 10 at most. Those 10 guys are not going to impact his graduation rate very much. BTW, BC has 19 guys in the NFL right now , the same as NCSU.

  22. GrandWolf 12/18/2006 at 8:28 AM #

    The coach search had nothing to do w/ personality and everything to do w/ performance on the field.

    As for Lipper’s column, it was typical Lipper. Lipper can’t even compliment Tom O’Brien. Oh, he tried in his “Lippy” way, but couldn’t. He had to tear down and rip on Amato on just about every point. Tom O’Brien doesn’t need some hack copy-boy ripping on one coach to make TOB look good.

    Lipper stinks, but atleast he’s consistent. I am sure Bob Lipper is a nice guy and a decent person. But strictly from his articles of the last 30 years, he has some “issues” when he gets near a keyboard.

  23. redfred2 12/18/2006 at 9:59 PM #

    VaWolf, sorry to reply to a comment that you marked as off-topic, feel free delete this if you wish.

    “Honestly.. I have never head a straight answer to this question. What is the Pack’s #1 sport… basketball or football?”

    Sorry roandaddy, the answer is NEITHER. There isn’t enough accomplished in either, to claim to be a ‘whatever sport’ university anymore. Four years of FB excitement ignited mainly by one great player, a persuasive new coach, and some fancy new facilities, does not negate all the years before that very short period of time. If it’s a football school as so many are claiming now, and mainly because it suited the Swofford agenda at the time, it should be an embarrassment for anyone to label it as such.

    NC State doesn’t know what it once was, or what it wants to be now.

    It’s kinda funny to me, they de-emphasize athletics because they try so desperately to distance themselves from ag and textiles in hopes of ‘appearing to be’ more refined and academically inclined, and what do you know, the national championship, in bass fishing of all things, is dropped squarely in their laps. Yeeeeehaaaaaw! I’ll bet they couldn’t reach for a broom and rug fast enough, to sweep that topic away from the media’s attention.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. StateFans Nation » Blog Archive » The N&O comes one step closer to Understanding Wolfpack Fans - 12/25/2006

    RhlGAt Awesome article post.Thanks Again. Awesome.

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