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Rye great posts above. Tough to argue with any of that. Until the PTB really want to get serious about football (see UNC hiring Butch D) then we can only hope for consistently mediocre.
I will say that I absolutely agree with you about the gimmicky coach angle. I have been screaming that for years. Why we didnt hire Mike Leach when given the chance is just bizarre. Crazy or not that mfer knows how to build a program and win with lower ranked recruits. Which is something NCSU will always have. Being so close to the SEC and with so many other d1 schools in the state the numbers will never work out in our favor therefor we need a sonny dykes or Ken nakamara offense. I think either could come in here and build something up especially Ken.
However having said that I think we had a football gift from the Gods drop in our lap and hopefully we are smart enough to accept it. I strongly believe Les Miles would do amazing things here. He could build a winning infrastructure with our program. He knows how to win and is big time football. He most certainly would elevate our recruiting. He is there for our taking but I am sure if DD gets fired this year we will roll the dice on another hot name and start the cycle again. Immediately laying the blame of his failures on the crappy recruiting of DD. I feel that Miles could come in and make our defense strong enough to compete in just about any game.
But we all know what is going to happen, we limp to 6-6 DD gets an ext, Yow leaves in 2019 and the new guy will put him on notice. Then the cycle probably repeats again in 2020. Just how we roll.
Do I think he runs a program that I can be proud of? Yes.
I see this a ton nowadays from his supporters (not you specifically Rib) but I dont get what in the hell this even means. You are proud to be mediocre? Proud are kids only get in marginal trouble? Proud of what exactly? Its not DD’s job to raise these players or get them to graduate. He has to win games.
I don’t think Yow will do anything if the team wins six coupled with a bowl loss. She can already point to a competitive, last play loss and unexpected injuries. Valdez is out with an acl.
I think that is exactly how this is going to play out. DD hits six and we are shoveled a lot of manure about him doing things the right way, men of character, injuries, tough schedule etc. Because deep down knows that if this train goes off the track her butt is on the line as well. No AD should ever get to hire 2 bball coaches and 2 football coaches that have failed. Smarter heads will step in and make her retire early. Its inevitable.
Heres the part you are going to have to wrap your head around though, when she doesnt fire him she is going to give him a nice ext and raise since he is due in terms of length on his existing one. I think in that scenario our fans will lose their minds.
^ I hope you dont go reaching for the razor blades when this retard gets fired. Its year 5 and you are still making excuses. At some point you need to look in the mirror.
Did any of you notice our starting RT was out both games? How about our starting LG moving to RT to cover there and then got dinged up a bit? Just wondered. Nobody mentioned it in the lamenting about no running game.
Our atrocious DBs pitched a shutout in the second half.
If you load the box to stop the run, you are giving something away like the passing game.
dont ever change
Where is greywolf? Can’t believe he’s not popped in to tell us to worry not, as the team retains a strength and conditioning coach on staff and that Dave is building a “culture” (despite no evidence that this team even has an identity).
we heard for years from Yow and DD about being young and building depth. Whelp we just got man handled by a bunch of frosh and sophs. Lip service is just that. I fear we are in for a long year. 6-6 if we are lucky
Same old moaning here. If you are so sure time for a change get off the wallet and offer to buy out the contract. It is easy to forget how bloody awful the last teams under TOB were. I see a base being built, possibly time to have the “savior” coach but to get there first one has to be identified, convinced to come to Raleigh and be paid. Until then we have what we have. Minus 3 or 4 serious mistakes (one which could well have been a staff call – the opening kick) we were right there. Good enough? No. But I also remember being in SC in the ’81 era and hearing the same crap from the chickens. Today they have cycled through being one of the top to back to a second tier. We can step up, probably should step up but until you beat the man you will never be the man. Hopefully we are on the right road. If not someone will have to pay – a lot.
pump the brakes
TOB’s last 3 teams were 5-3, 4-4, 4-4 in the ACC. I dont consider that “bloody awful”. Thats revisionist history my man
Mac: I hear what you are saying. I’ve been off the DD wagon since year one (have to really suck at NC State not to win at least one game in the ACC given we get Wake, Bc, Syracuse and UNC every year). I’m still hopeful on my preseason prediction. ND hasn’t been the ND of my youth in a long time, and the FSU game seemingly just got a lot easier. UNC looks beatable and BC seems to have regressed, though who knows that Wake and Syracuse really have.
But the team once again placed themselves in an unphill fight. I thought DD was a dead man walking after that ECU loss and would require beating UNC to still be coaching here. I still think he’d have been gone had he lost to UNC but he pulled a rabbit out of his hat.
This is exactly why it sucked donkey balls losing to USC. Now we are trying to figure out where the wins come from to make this a successful season. We aint going into FSU or ND and pulling an upset. Do you really see that happening? Maybe Pitt but its still a road game. As to Wake and Cuse they are only going to get better right?
7 wins and I think he still has a job next year. Yow isnt going to risk her losing a job if she makes a move. No way in hell does she get to make another revenue hire, I think she knows that and will trot out the “student athlete, good character, right direction, doing things the right way” mantra to ease the pain. Hell she may even do this if we only hit 6 (which seems likely at this point).
Honestly Daves tenure here will be defined by getting absolutely rolled by Miss State and firing the prodigy OC instead of Santa Clause. How in the world Hux still has a job is an absolute head scratcher. Part of me know wishes we got rolled by UNC last year and just hired Miles. Hell its not too late.
Any chance of a special season went out the window when our guys crapped on ourselves in the 3rd quarter on Sat.
I will freely admit that his expectations are more likely turn out to be more on target than mine but are ‘on target expectations’ what most of us are here to get?
Well, you’ll have to pardon me, sir. I might just be in the wrong place if this is indeed where folks convene to read and post about “off target expectations.” As you were.
I admit I had to read that twice. I dont think Grey proof read that post before hitting enter. He is criticizing you for having realistic expectations. Things that make you go hmmmmm…..
Getting old must be a mother……
Looks like the final results are in. While we didn’t hold that #12 slot, we did finish 29th (6th in the ACC). Ahead of Clempsun and damn respectable in my book.
Sure, we want more success in the major revenue sports, but at least we’re making progress in the other areas. Let’s see if it is contagious to football and MBB.
above clemson you say, I wonder how they will ever live down the agony of that defeat. Oh wait…………
I dont understand why he has made it some crusade to stick up for UNC. It just doesnt make sense the way he goes to bat for them. And please spare me the “he works for ESPN and knows where his bread is buttered” angle. I think this goes above and beyond that.
The “ho hum” comment is in regards to having high expectations going into the season with the bulk of us knowing how this plays out. We are NC State are we not?
Nobody is crowing about 7 wins, 4-4 in the conference was more the point. Not sure why you are having trouble wrapping your mind around that but I have my suspicions.
And lastly, in TOB’s career he only won less than 3 games in conference just once. One time. So I am really really confident that he could yes indeed pull a rabbit out of his hat and get us to 3 or 4 wins. Which is really here nor there.
I will say it one last time, I know you like DD, its brutally obvious but the fact remains he has done himself no favors going into his 5th year. His recruiting has been declining and I am afraid another “down” year will lose any fan support he still has and have an ugly albatross hanging around his neck as not being able to get it done. On paper we should beat USC but looking back and seeing their past recruiting from 5 years or so and it shows they are top 25ish overall. This all of a sudden feels like the Tenn game in TOB last year. They were a horrible team but still had way more talent than someone from the ACC. So that leaves us the ACC assuming there are no WTF losses out of conference like you said. So he is absolutely coaching for his job to make it to 4-4 in conference. There is zero doubt in my mind he misses that mark and losses to USC he is done. There is no argument anyone could make that would justify keeping him.
If he hits the 4-4, 5-3 record then he hits a big payday and everything resets so to speak. But the fact remains he has gotten us to this point that he has no room for error.
And we have absolutely no idea how TOB would have done with another year.
I disagree. While its true that we don’t know if TOB would have won 2 games or 4….you would have to be blind to think that DD’s first season was ever going to be anything other than an unmitigated disaster regardless of who the coach was.
It takes a lot of bad breaks and bad coaching to go ofer in the conference. You almost have to try to do that. While I am not saying TOB would have won it but I think he would have pulled a rabbit out of his hat and won at least 3-4 conference games. That tended to be his wheelhouse. I was neither for or against firing him just pointing that Yow better have the same parameters when it comes to DD. And I thought he had that hot shot qb that committed that eventually went to Kstate.
TOB last season. 4-4 with a win against #3 FSU. That statement is highly highly up for debate.
Had TOB been allowed another year he would have been lucky to win even one game. We had no QB, and a dearth of talent. It was REALLY bad. And since he refused to recruit there was no prospect of it getting any better. Negative momentum is the best way to describe it. Death spiral is probably dead on, pun intended. The writing on that wall was pretty dire.
We happened to be eating out last night and sitting next to a couple at another table. I had a NC State shirt on. The couple struck up a conversation with us (me primarily). Turns out the couple was Howard and Lynda Baum. Howard has been the statistician for Wolfpack radio since 1967. Part of our discussion turned to the prospects for the upcoming seasons. Howard made the comment that the excitement level in football, and men’s and women’s basketball is at a level he hasn’t seen in 30 years. This came from a guy who does numbers. We wound up sitting there with them for an hour after we had finished eating (ignoring our wive’s discussions of course since Howard and I were talking numbers of all kinds and in all places, not just State athletics). It’s hard to find someone as into “numbers” and statistics like I am. For me it was a most enjoyable evening, the wife had fun talking to Lynda too so it wasn’t a complete wash for the ladies.
No offense but that sounds like a guy that is toeing the company line. I think most pack fans I am around, here on this board and the others are just more like “Ho hum, here we go again”. I think if DD hits the 6 or 7 win mark then you will see the apathy truly set in. But like you guys tend to suggest there is always that long shot that DD has that miracle year.
And we have absolutely no idea how TOB would have done with another year.
I greatly enjoy the exchange of opinions – pro and con. What I don’t like is the back biting that seems to come with those opinions.
For what it is worth I see the football program in a better place than when TOB was released. Enough better? That is always the question.TOB last season. 4-4 with a win against #3 FSU. That statement is highly highly up for debate.
The Clemson game you speak of, we were only in because they turned the ball over a few thousand times.
Hmmm… Was that the game where Dra Wright hit the Clemson RB so hard he hardly knew what hit him? If you think fumbles are caused by bad luck… never mind.
Have a nice day.You keep referencing the Clemson game as if we won. If my memory is correct Dave coached himself right out of the victory during the last possession of the game.
I’m not saying DD is HWSNBN, but let’s not pretend for a second that the media doesn’t have bias.
Do you remember the story rating all the D-1 coaches? DD was rated about 68 — lower than some coaches who had not coached a D-1 game. He was rated below nearly all the P-5 coaches he beat. If that is bias for DD, I’d hate to see the ones who are biased the other way.
Grey do you think DD will get fired if he only wins 6 wins in regular season? How about 7?
DO you think he should be fired at either one of those totals?
Who is this “freshmanin83?? He sure has some brass cojones. Dude has started two threads, not only about Wolfpack football, but also very positive threads. Not drawing a lot of comments tho. Come on folks, let’s generate some discussion here. What do you say. Can Dave Doeren go from cliff’s edge to sleeping giant before he’s played a single game?.
There are some pretty savvy observers here on SFN some of whom say Doeren should have been fired at the end of last season regardless of the outcome of the EweNC game. Some say the EweNC win saved his job.
I have to say that both points of view seem to be pretty misinformed. Maybe the W/L record ALONE is not a safe deciding factor. With no way of knowing this to be true or not, I think our AD quietly had conversations with the big donors and settled their upset and anger and convinced them that waiting until 2017 is the prudent route to take.
Sweet Jesus dude we get it, we really do. You like DD and think he is the best thing since sliced bread. Thats cool man, it really is. However there is nobody on this board or any where else that I see that is calling for his head. We all agree the smashing of UNC granted him another season. We all are in agreement here. The thing is, DD has coached himself into the proverbial corner. He has no good will left to spend in case a season goes south and in NC States case it happens quite a bit for some crazy reasons. #ncstate#### some may say. Both he and Yow have crowed that this year is the year. I think he has to hit 8 regular season wins or he is toast. Yow fired TOB after winning seven and I am not seeing much difference here. Because on paper we stand to lose a ton of players next year.
Dude I would love to come here and have to eat the crow and be totally wrong about Dave. Nobody really likes a regime change because it resets the clock per say. (Remember the 0-8 season?) But after 4 years of watching this knucklehead manage some crazy football games I am not too overly optimistic that he makes it out of this thing alive. I have watched a ton of football in my life and yes there always aberrations like Beamer etc who did get better, but for the most part a coach that has treaded water (I use that term loosely) for 4 seasons simply dont turn into some superstar later in their career.
92owen: I think Grey’s just excited, and I hope he is right. While I don’t necessarily agree with some of what he posts, it is a lot tougher to go out on that limb than it is to look at DD’s body of work at NC State as well as NC State’s historical results in football and predict 5-7 to 7-5.
There you go looking in the rear view mirror again. Kidding aside you are absolutely right. After 4 years of results and watching him coach its pretty easy to predict our upcoming record.
Tractor – it’s a bum deal for DSJ and the one and dones.
I seriously doubt guys like Mav or Kapita would command much more than the value of their scholarship, room, board. Training facilities and food on the free market. For most kids, the scholarship is more than equitable and probably more than they would demand on a free market. Now, it’s a different story for the top prospects in the revenue sports. Those guys are getting hosed.
I think Kapita is making an ill-advised decision. I think Yurts call is a bit more difficult.
I don’t blame kids for going pro when they are in a good position to do so. I question the decision when it’s clear that their prospects stink. Each situation is different. Lacy was older so I certainly understand his decision. (He also probably was either close to graduating or he could have been.)
damn good post
but don’t forget that you are what your record says you are. I wish we could raise the average but it will be very hard to do.
In 2016 our record said we were 7-6. That’s all it says. Don’t let that fat-assed Tuna tell you it means anything else. It doesn’t.
As far as our “average” is concerned, get your head out of
your assthe past. Division, conference and National championships are based on the current record, not some “average’ of the past.You are just……..odd
If we were in that situation I would agree. However look at where he is from. I don’t believe he has an interest in school so basketball is it for him. With that taken into account, it’s only logical to assume he was told he has no shot in the NBA so he decided Europe is it for him. Plus I believe him and Rowan are close, so they are headed the same direction. School isn’t for everyone. Sucks for us though.
Yeah I get his case is unique but I was speaking more on the whole. Like Cat, Lacey and Rowan. Just seems really really stupid to not put in the extra couple of years, get the degree, extra training rather than go to some fly by night organization in Greece, Ukraine, Israel etc.
Yeah I know the “Laceys making $100000 now” posts are going to come rolling in but the take home from that and the longevity still doesnt make it worth it in my opinion.
I think this becomes more of a trend throughout college basketball. There are other leagues and if you get told, you don’t have what it takes to make an NBA roster, why wouldn’t you go play overseas? Someone will pay him more money playing basketball than he will make with a degree. Its an ugly trend that’s on the rise. Cant say I blame the kids though I would consider it as well.
I know what you are saying and dont necessarily disagree but godalmighty that is unbelievably short sighted on his (or whoever) part. They dont make that much, its for an incredibly limited time and you are in some God knows where foreign country trying to acclimate. I seriously doubt playing overseas is all what its made out to be.
Dude, just dude. Come on man.
Been in the holy water again?
My post was short and sweet, your diatribe had all the makings of some sort of absinthe induced rambling about our fans not doing their part or some such. Which is basic lunacy on every level.
I’m enthusiastic about men’s basketball for the same reasons as 44rules. Outside of a few weekends here and there in the ACC and NCAA tournaments and a few upsets against UNC and Duke, NC State basketball has been largely unwatchable since V was run off. Regardless of the results this year, I think we’ll actually put an entertaining product on the floor. That has me excited.
With football, I’m enthusiastic in the way that I always am about NC State sports. I expect 7-5/8-4, with a couple of close “what might have been” type losses.
Thats exactly how I feel with football. I wish we would run a more of the spread run and shoot type Air Raid just to be exciting. I thought Eli D would install it but I didnt see it last year.
