Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
I don’t think anyone has said we are a good team, just not a bad one, and not that far from being a good one. And Wulfpack, the only person you are sparing is yourself. The team, and TJ, both did enough to win those two games in particular. We were robbed of those victories. But again, that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about Jeff Goodman saying that for TJ to be the POY in his eyes, he would have lead NC State to the tourney. The point, again, is that there is nothing more individually that TJ could have done to make that happen. The things I pointed out above were things that were outside of TJ’s control, that if they had turned out differently (or fairly in my eyes), would have made Goodman’s asinine assertions moot.
But the team does have TJ on it, so we don’t have to think about what it would have been like without him. TJ and the team did enough to win the games against Cuse and CH, but were robbed of victory. That is why looking at the W-L record of the team is a terrible way to justify a Player of the Year pick, which was my initial point. What more could TJ have done personally to make this team a tournament team?? Could he have not gotten fouled out of the NCCU game by Jamie Luckie? Could he have gotten the continuation on the foul vs Cuse? Could he have kept Cat and Dez from turning the ball over in the Cuse game? Could he have stopped the second half whistle fest against the Heels? Could he have stopped Paige from waltzing in for the game winning layup?
TJ Warren did everything you could expect from the conference Player of the Year. But that is not what this thread is about. It is about how much of an asshat Jeff Goodman is.
Not to derail my own thread, but NCCU and Cincy are tournament teams, and Mizzou is on the bubble. I don’t consider any of those as “bad” losses. They were all games we could have, and should have won, yes, but they are not the reason we are not currently going to the tourney. A different outcome in either the UNC or Cuse game, and we would be on the bubble. Losing to bad teams in the conference happens to everyone, just part of conference play.
As for Goodman trolling the fanbase, he definitely is, and that is why I have not responded to him on twitter. But outside of his blatant trolling, he also has shown a pattern with regards to his criticism of TJ, from the time he was a recruit, and that falls outside the bounds of normal trolling and starts getting into something personal. And this is an NC State message board, the only way that griping about him here is “feeding the troll” is if he is reading these forums. In which case, hi Jeff, eff you!
Totally preparing for TJ to get ROBBED for POY. Too many “writers” and “experts” saying they voted for Parker. As of right now, I think the odds are 50-50. I really hope I’m wrong. The only silver lining is that if he does get snubbed, I see him going for 50 in Gboro.
Jeff Goodman on twitter saying that you can’t be POY if your team doesn’t make the NCAAs. I suppose he has short term memory problems, see Green, Erik. There is not a player in the country that has had a better game than TJ had tonight. He’s scored 97 points in 5 days. I hope he goes for 50 the next time out. Let the haters hate.
Another week, another snub for player of the week. I honestly thought they’d give it to him this week, or him and Paige together, if for no other reason that to shut us up. Well, I was mistaken. It is downright laughable at this point. The awards are not for best player on a winning team, it is the best player for the week. And besides, even when we have won both our games, TJ didn’t get any recognition then. It really shouldn’t make me so mad, since I have no control over it, but at this point the only conclusion I can make is that a concerted effort is being made to not vote him up.
^I can’t be so sure that he’ll be first team. Remember, we once had a player left off the postseason awards because people couldn’t spell his name properly (Evtimov). If he had been getting some recognition throughout the year, I’d be more confident, but he has been ignored locally and nationally. It’s a darn shame.
The problem with our league is that there is no consequence for an official being inept, no accountability.
Is there accountability in any league? You do realize refs work multiple conferences, right?
Yep, UVA is kicking tail, in first place. Yep, Miami won the conference last year. Yet all some want to do is blame others for our lack of success. It is getting old.
Yes, and you do realize that refs call games differently depending on which conference they are working in, right? I’m not blaming the refs for our lack of success. But if you can’t see that certain people like Jamie Luckie have some sort of agenda, then I don’t know what to tell you. Our style is our style, the number of fouls called against us should be fairly consistent from one game to the next, tendencies and all that, so why do those numbers jump so dramatically when he is involved?
The problem with the argument that good teams get the calls is that it doesn’t seem to apply to those wearing red jerseys. At the beginning of last year, ranked number 6 in the country, did we get more of the benefit of good calls? I didn’t see it.
It’s just like the argument that says the Duke and Carolina get more calls because they drive the basket and that teams that shoot jumpshots don’t get the calls. We get more points from the inside the arc than almost every team in the country (I haven’t looked at the numbers in a while, but for a while we were ranked number 2 in that category), yet the statistics show that the expected increase in the number of foul shots isn’t there. One can argue that TJ is good at avoiding contact, but watching games I see him get slapped, hacked, and bumped on just about every shot he takes. It is a testament to his ability that he makes such a high percentage of shots through contact.
The problem with our league is that there is no consequence for an official being inept, no accountability. And that will not change until the PTB aren’t associated with the blue schools.
It is really laughable the lack of attention that is being paid to TJ this year. People can say that he doesn’t get the recognition because he isn’t on a good team, but this year’s State team is a heckuva lot better than the VT team that Greene was on last year. At this point, I won’t be surprised if he is not first team All ACC. In fact, I’ll put it in writing here that I fully expect him to get snubbed for that honor too. They’ll put Paige, Fair, Parker, Ennis, and Harris on the first team, I can see them doing it. It is just ridiculous at this point, when James McAdoodoo (you only get to use two names, have you ever in your life met a person that introduced himself as “James Michael”?) is winning player of the week awards, you know the fix is in.
How many times did Scott Wood get called for intentional fouls for putting two hands on someone to stop a fast break? How was this any different.
I can guarantee that if Warren’s jersey said McAdoo or Parker on the back, that it would have been an and-1 at worst.
How about the phantom foul on Turner when the Cuse kid slipped and fell? That was as terrible call as I have seen. There is no legitimate reason for the foul discrepancy in the second half. The style of play didn’t change. One team wasn’t fouling in the attempt to make a comeback. Our guys are playing against a hockey team on one end, and getting called for touch fouls on the perimeter at the other end. Typical ACC incompetence. We lost because of our own mistakes, but if not for the terrible calls, our mistakes would not have mattered.
Don’t normally reply to the game threads, just not my thing. But I just wanted to say, earlier in the week I had some long discussions with folks here about the talent level of this team and how I thought we had the raw talent to beat anyone on our schedule, which was widely ridiculed. I think this game proves that to be true. We took the best team in the country to the wire. Hopefully these young kids can see that, and use it to build the confidence we need to finish the season strong enough to make the dance.
^As often as that quote was used by detractors of a former coach as an insult, it is not an inappropriate metaphor for the concept of building a winning team.
As for the “blowout” loss to Chapel Hill, I don’t see where that is proof of anything. (Last time I checked, we haven’t won at their place in more than a decade) Look at the effort in the second half. There are no such things as moral victories, but the point that I have been trying to make is about what the team is capable of. We played the second half at CH with the intensity and fire that was missing in the first half, we just let the hole get too deep in the first to overcome. I just don’t see how you can watch the second half of that game, or the first ten minutes of the Pitt game, and say we “can’t” win those kinds of games. We certainly can. Whether we will put it together for long enough stretches to beat the big boys remains to be seen, and I’m looking forward to watching.
If the numbers say that we have no shot at pulling upsets, winning games, and getting to the dance, then let’s just save ourselves the trouble and heartbreak. Go ahead and forfeit the rest of the games and call it a season.
Yes, of course the games last longer than 3-5 minutes, that’s why we haven’t won more games. But good teams have those impressive short stretches more frequently than bad ones. That’s what we are working towards, that’s what my own two eyes see when I watch the team play. The reality is the team can and has get better at things as the year goes on. These kids have had three more months of practice than they had at the start of the season. I, for one, am confident in the difference making itself apparent in the win-loss column. That’s why I’m a fan. That’s why I watch the games, regardless of what the numbers say.
VA, we’ve had this discussion before. I know you are a numbers guy, but when I watch a game I don’t see statistics, I see how the teams are playing. Every game this year, and I have watched them all, we have had stretches where we went on 10-0 runs, played tough defense, converted on offense, out hustled the opponent, etc. The only exception was the UVA game, in which we played like turds from the tip. Even the Duke game, we had a run early in the first half to tie the game up in which we played some fundamentally sound ball. The team is talented, but outside of TJ, they are all very raw, and we all knew (or should have known) this coming in to this year. If you read my post, you will see that I said that based on raw talent we can beat anyone on our schedule. If you can’t see that raw talent that these kids have, then there’s nothing I can do to show you what I’m talking about. And if you haven’t seen those stretches where we looked really good, then you weren’t paying attention, or just reading the box score. Nowhere did I say we were a good team. But I can tell the difference between a talented team that is on the cusp of putting it all together, and a crap team that has reached a plateau, I’ve seen enough of those over the years.
These numbers are great, but all we need to do is win, the rest will take care of itself. Stay focused on defense, don’t turn the ball over, and make our free throws. That’s what this team needs to focus on, those are all things within their control. The things that they lack, which are well documented, are things that can’t be easily changed. But, we have shown stretches of play this year that indicate that we at least have the raw talent to beat most any team we play. I see no reason why team confidence, momentum, and TJ can’t carry us to a bid.
I don’t think anyone is feeling rosy red VA, just not all of us think the sky is falling all the time. I sat next to a guy in the PNC, and thirty seconds after tipoff he starts talking about how we are going to lose,Gott can’t coach, etc. I mean damn, that must be a miserable way to go through life. I root for the team hoping for the best, but knowing that even on the worst day, it’s just a game.
And VAWolf, you can’t just look at final scores to determine if a game was winnable. We were up double digits on Pitt. That was a very winnable game. We also had a chance in the Cinci game, there were 12 ties and 8 lead changes in that one, they only pulled away late. The only two games where we flat out tanked were Duke and UVA, but neither of those was really a surprise.
If someone told me before the season that this team would be 13-7 at this point, I wouldn’t have argued with them. The “hows” and “whys” of that record may not have been clear before the season started, but watching the team play, I stick by my opinion that on any given night, we are capable of winning without playing “perfect” ball.
Also, look at the landscape of college ball right now. Aside from a handful of teams, there aren’t any world-beaters right now. I would make the argument that if you hopped in the way-back machine and turned two of our WTF losses into wins, a 15-5 Pack team would be creeping on to the top 25 radar right now in the “others receiving votes” category. Of course, we can’t do that, and our record is what it is. But it just shows the razor fine line that exists between pretty good and middle of the road.
There is still a long season left fellas. The important thing is that the team continues to learn and build on what has happened so far.
Sorry, anyone that thinks this team is bad hasn’t been watching. Sure, we go through stretches in every game where we don’t play particularly well, but we are not bad. Not by any stretch of the imagination. With only two exceptions, there has not been a game this year that we didn’t have a chance to win. Learning to win is something a young team has to do.
I also feel that some fans are WAY too caught up in the playing time area. Every player in our rotation is important. They all get important minutes, and we need every one of them. We have the longest bench of any State team I can ever remember, under any coaching regime. Our guys all cheer each other on, and I feel that they genuinely enjoy playing with each other. Yes, I’m sure there are players that would like to play more, but that happens on every team. The important thing is that the players get in there and play hard when asked. Lewis certainly made an impact with his time in the game. Vandy could have sulked about being on the bench during the second half, but he came in at the end and made at least two great plays. That’s what you want in good team basketball. Yes it was GT, and yes we should have won in regulation, but none of that really matters does it?
The key to this team is movement. When we move on offense, good things happen. The high-post UCLA offense is predicated on movement to get the screens and rubs that allow guys to get open. Too often this year when we have struggled on offense, it is because the guys are just standing around. Even if the other team is in zone, you still have to move. And on defense, guys have to move. Whether it be man or zone. We got burned many times yesterday when someone failed to shift after another guy went to help on a scorer. But late in the game, we went to the zone, and were actually aggressive and moving in the zone, and it worked great. Hopefully the guys learn these lessons and we continue to improve.
I enjoy watching these guys play together. I said it the first game of the year, and I will continue to say it. Reasonable folks knew there would be growing pains this year. We’ll lose some we should win, and vice versa. But these guys are fun to watch, and I’m excited for the future.
So which is it fellow pack fans? Do you want to pay to watch the team win? Or do you want to pay to watch the team play good competition? Because those two ideas don’t really intersect here. With the nature of college football currently, I don’t personally see any benefit to scheduling a home out of conference game against any team that you can’t beat 9 times out of 10. This isn’t basketball, strength of schedule doesn’t matter for teams like us. IF, and that is a big if, we were to shock the world and go undefeated, and get left out of the playoff because of our weak schedule, then perhaps there would be beef to be had. But that isn’t going to happen, and we need the wins from wherever we can get them.
And remember, another team has to be willing to schedule a game with us. We can’t just pick and choose who we want to play, they have to want to play us. And honestly, what upside does a team like the ones mentioned in this discussion have to travel to Raleigh and play us? I can’t think of any. We’re not guaranteed to be good enough that playing us will help their SOS, and we aren’t bad enough to be a guaranteed win. This is the world of mediocre football fellas. If and when we start winning enough games to warrant a changing in the scheduling philosophy, I’m sure that change will be made. Until then, if you don’t like the way things are, then don’t renew. Then maybe someone like me can actually move up into better seats.
It is amazing how two different people can watch the same thing, and see completely different things. I saw TJ doing a great job of leading from the bench. He was in on the huddles, talking with the guys, giving them advice. He was cheering from the bench. No, he wasn’t jumping up and down with the walk-ons, but he does have a sprained ankle, so there is that. I’ve been impressed with how demonstrative and vocal TJ has been lately. He’s gotten fired up emotionally many times this year so far. I personally like his quiet assassin persona. That makes it all the more meaningful when he gets emotional, and the guys listen. As for the game, big props for the defensive intensity in the second half, and for guys actually moving and working the offense, in addition to pushing the ball in transition. Much like last year’s team, we have shown that the guys are capable of playing lock-down defense. It is just a matter of making that happen for two halves of basketball in the same game. Props to all of the guys for the effort last night, it was a big win.
