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Outplayed and outcoached in second half. Couldn’t expect to shoot 65% for the entire game. At some point, had to get stops and defensive rebounds. Microcosm of season right there. Questionable rotations in there for long stretches in the second half. Stuck with some rotations and schemes way too long. The zone was atrocious, and the personnel we had in there while running the zone was flat out bad.
^If Gottfried could hover in the 50-60 range, and occasionally exceed that mark, his teams would be remarkable. IF you look at this NCAA tournament results and games against top flight competition, this has been his biggest problem. He’ll score at a pretty good clip but can’t stop anybody else. When you make the field of 64, you get exposed when you have weaknesses as lopsided as his are. Occasionally, you run into a hot shooting team that can outscore you, or simply an average offensive team that’s solid on the defensive end. But rarely do you ever run into a team that miraculously has a great defensive night. Just doesn’t happen.
How do you get that Bennett’s teams were right around where are ours are defensively for the first three? They aren’t even close.
I think Chop calls it best, just not a details guy. Plenty of evidence from Alabama and 3 years here. I’m of the mindset that you’re either a hardass who demands and inspires kids to play the “right way” or you aren’t. Doesn’t mean you have to be a jackass, but kids will respect you, play hard for you, appreciate the results and accolades if you get them to buy in.
If you continue to chalk up poor defense to leftovers from previous staff, youth, inexperience, you’re going to be disappointed with this group. I liked the sprinkling in of zone this year as well, but it was a bad, inactive zone that didn’t rotate well, stop penetration, or rebound. IMO, it was largely played to disguise Lewis’s shortcomings and protect Cuz from foul trouble.
For all the talk about Lutz as some defensive wizard when this staff was hired, I said then that I didn’t recall Lutz’s defenses at UNCC ever being that stout. From 2003-2010, UNCC had a median adjusted defensive rank around 108-111. Gottfried was similarly bad.
No one expects Gottfried to be a defensive mastermind, but modest improvement would yield major results simply because his offenses are typically very good. I’m not optimistic. Watched too much SEC ball years ago, and the last three haven’t changed my opinion.
Triple P, glad to see you’re among the land of the living. Haven’t seen you post in a while. I got a child on the way, so I expect my TV watching time is going to decline as well. Maybe I’ll give up college basketball, cause’ I agree, it’s nearly unbearable to watch. I could hardly stomach the first half last night it was so bad on many different levels.
^So very appropriate, wufpup, since somebody cajoled me into reading the Hunger Games. I usually don’t stoop to such levels. But it helped ease the pain of last night’s loss.
^That would make sense. But then again, this goes all the way to the top. Obama, dude. Royally screwing America’ and Statefans everywhere.
^What about the other patterns? As in how we play? What’s to be made of those? Nada? I’ve been called “intellectually dishonest” because I consider what our players and coaches might improve upon–not perfect, mind you–so that they might sharpen their execution, and change an outcome by becoming less dependent on “perfect” refereeing. Or is it fair, or consistent refereeing that we’re after? Or is there a difference?
^Nice to look for the silver lining, but let’s not polish a turd. THe ACC ain’t what it once was. 7-8, when you’re not playing everybody twice, can be good or bad, depending on your schedule. In our case, it’s bad. I also don’t believe the defensive improvement is anywhere evident. The Kenpom stats that are standardized for every 100 possessions certainly don’t support that conclusion. Other than that, I agree with all of the above.
Let’s just agree to disagree about the officiating and at least not let that discussion undermine the quality of the board. How’s that sound? For lots of us, we like this board because it didn’t always digress into the monkey board. Most everybody on here acknowledges that the quality of officiating in college basketball has declined. So has the play. Nobody disputes it.
I’m all for folks trying to show collusion. If that’s what you think it is (aka ryebread and his attempt at statistically proving it), go for it. But cherry picking calls after every close loss, then complaining and pointing fingers because others merely suggest that bad calls, questionable calls, or no-calls, are in fact, part of nearly every competition, something btw that all of these athletes have long recognized–and suggesting any criticism or discussion of our poor execution is somehow not a contributing factor, or less of a factor, is quite strange. Fine for the fans to take the “it’s the ref’s fault we’re losing” view, but if the coaches and players have the attitude, and that’s the reason we’re losing, then we’re in bad shape. I’ve been tossed from some games as a coach for arguing a call, but I’d never focus on that in a practice or want my kids putting that much faith or dependence on game outcomes in the hands of an official. And that has nothing to do with the choice of sport, it’s universal.
The defense on the last possession is typical for us. Gott actually made some substitutions. Lee was on Paige, Barber on the other little guy. But instead of making Paige go right, or forcing him to give up the ball, or shoot a contested 3, we actually allowed him to go left, right down the lane. Warren provided a little resistance but there’s no way that good of look by Paige should’ve ever happened. Vandy out at the three point line playing the screener. THat is not how you defend that with 7 seconds on the clock. IT’s awful.
I said yesterday the only certainties were that we wouldn’t hold UNC under 75, and we’d get outrebounded. I didn’t even think it would be close unless few things happened, most of which did. I was pleasantly surprised at how well we played, how hard we played, but also recognize UNC stunk it up in the first half, looked like a really rattled, fragile, young team playing away. Unforced errors, missed free throws, you name it. We played hard but didn’t capitalize in the first half. We struggled on nearly every offensive possession. There were few easy looks all night for us.
In the second half, our defense on Paige was awful. Gottfried put in a nice wrinkle with the 3-2 zone, something we’ve not seen all year to my knowledge. But he stayed in it way too long. We needed Turner’s shot in the game, but he and Lewis on the perimeter, whether it’s man or zone, is just a recipe for disaster, and it was very much that. Everybody contributed last night, but Anya was huge for us, and he literally sat on the bench the last 5-10, except for possibly a short stint. We gave up many second and third chance opportunities in that stretch. Can cherry pick all sorts of things, but in my mind, the lineup and game management really hindered us from separating ourselves, taking advantage of UNC early, and then responding to Paige.
But I do agree with Foose, lots of moving screens out there all night. Not peculiar to this game or UNC, see it all the time, but it’s inconsistently called.
I swore not to debate officiating, so I won’t, but saying the calls against Warren were even questionable really betrays a lack of basketball acumen. No smart basketball player, particularly one who understands his importance to his team, reaches and swats and puts himself in a position to get called for silly, inconsequential fouls. You play defense with your feet, not your hands. This is why we suck at defense. This is one reason we gave up 30+ to Paige in one half.
Anyone wishes to start a thread where the game strategy, play, and coaching is discussed but the officating racket isn’t, I’m in.
The zebras did about as much as they could to keep us in this one. How anybody can complain about officiating is beyond me. UNC absolutely laid a turd in the first half, we didn’t take advantage, then we gave up 45 in the second half. Herculean effort by Warren, and some big shots by Turner. Unfortunately, Gott stuck with the 3-2 too long (even though it was a nice wrinkle), and Lewis and Turner got abused defensively in the second half. Too many offensive rebounds given up, including several in the last 10 minutes, and Anya, who played a whale of a game, was meanwhile sitting on the pine. Can’t stand sitting players with 4 fouls either. Warren needed to have played more than 29 minutes in regulation. Some of those fouls just can’t happen. Hard to criticize that kid, but some really risky reaches and swats. And the critical free throw misses, the turnover. The ball absolutely has to guard, cant go to the corner.
In my mind, there a few certainties about this game.
1. We won’t hold UNC under 75.
2. We’ll get outrebounded.For us to win, so many things have to go right. Quite simply, Warren has to be the best player on the court tonight, get at least 30, Barber has to match Page, and Turner/Lee or both have to score in double figures. Getting Washington in double figures would be a bonus. I’ve said all year long, bu particularly against solid man-to-man teams, our best lineup is the small lineup, preferably featuring Barber, Lee, Turner, Warren, and one big. And I’d prefer to see some kind of trapping, or full-court press, at least periodically. How about a little strategy Gott?
My furnace just died, taking that a very bad omen. Fireplace voodoo tonight for a little luck. If the Pack ain’t, I’m gettin’ lucky anyway.
Perfect assessment by BJD95. We get rolled tonight. Unless…we play HWSNBN ball, slow it way down, hope Buckets is Buckets, and we shoot light outs from 3.
Roy will show no mercy. They blame us for the sanctions and scrutiny they’ve received. Their fans want to bask and gloat. Anything short of a 30-40 point win for them will be a disappointment. This may be the beginning of the end for Gott, or an awakening. Hope we’re ready.
Call it the Greg Maddux effect. If you’re good, play the game the right way (fundamentally sound) you get the calls, especially the 50-50 ones, and a occasionally a few gifts. We’re not good. I’m with Pakfanistan on this. We’re very average in an average league, with no quality wins outside the conference or in it, and plenty of beat downs. Add to that, there’s nothing on Gottfried’s resume that says he ever puts a team on the court that’s anywhere but mediocre defensively. And the UCLA high post is not an offense that generates a lot of fouls, because it’s based on efficient scoring options and skilled passing, not attacking with the dribble drive. And of course, officials have bias, of course every call isn’t fair. Which one–play or officiating–exerts more impact on game outcomes? Our play, or officiating?
^Agree with Rye, ACC baseball has really improved from top to bottom and boasts some incredible talent, but I’ll take the SEC and Pac10 teams and coaches. THere’s that that little Baseball America bias factor in Durham.
^Think this is interesting, rye. It’s hardly surprising that Hess’s friends may have an axe to grind. But as others point out, there are many variables at work here, and quite a few assumptions. First, we’re not a good defensive team. We weren’t last year. Gott’s teams aren’t typically good on that end. That doesn’t mean that they’re necessarily “passive.” In my mind, it means they’re fundamentally weak in multiple areas. I’d like to know, not so much how our foul situation stacks up with and without Luckie, but rather, how does Luckie officiate other games? Is there a significant difference between how he calls our games and other teams? Does he tend to call more fouls? If we get Luckie again, I look forward to an in-game analysis.
^Agree with BJD, but would add that Turner does utilize the pump fake and can get to the rim better than Wood. I’ve thought all year long the best offensive lineup was Warren at the four, with Turner and Lee on the floor together, plus a big and PG. Spread the floor and let them play. Speed up the tempo. We’re not going to shut anybody down with our D. We’re not a great rebounding team regardless, but Lee rebounds really well out of the 2G spot and is a solid defender. Instead, we’re running the high post. Square peg, round hole.
Think everybody recognizes Gott’s the best we’ve had in a long time. Syracuse hangover? Probably some of that. But Clemson is a top-10 defensive team, we’ve struggled on offense all season. As someone in the other thread pointed out pregame, and Cory Alexander mentioned last night, we look far better moving the ball and attacking zones right now than man defenses, probably because we’ve seen so much zone. Agree, this was a disappointment but hardly a surprise.
