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It’s seems that the evolving consensus, at least around here, is that this — apathy, mediocre teams, coaches — is not a “basketball program” or, for that matter, a “football program”, problem…
Maybe it’s rooted much deeper and much higher in the University Administration,
Pre-Woodson, I think that there was a deep disconnect. The admin was satisfied with not-sucking. Amato fell below that and was fired. Sendek met that requirement and Fowler stuck with him. Only in a theoretical sense, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Herb had stayed instead of fleeing to the desert. The rumors of discontent among the big money donors were spreading. I have often wondered how that scenario would have played out….but I am grateful that I didn’t have to watch it.
Woodson and DY speak of excellence. Now it’s time to move beyond talk in BB and getting mighty close to that time in FB.
riddle me the last time NC State won a conference championship in Basketball or Football?
1979 – football…note that the conference champs did not play in a bowl (turned down Garden State bowl in New Jersey because it was during exam week.)
1987 – men’s basketball.
Yes, I know that your question was rhetorical.
Our last two searches were cautionary tales.
That’s being kind.
From all the coaching searches we’ve been through over the last decade, it’s obvious to me that the first move is for DY to hire a consultant. (OK, second. She’s got to fire the coach first.) This way coaches’ agents can contact the consultant and both the school and coach can honestly deny any rumors until both sides are serious.
It should work the other way as well…the consultant can contact coaches on the dream list (or their agent) without anything getting out. But I’m not sure how successful that approach is. IF a coach isn’t interested in finding out more about your job when a coaching search starts, what are the chances that he would be interested if DY/consultant contacted him?
On other threads, there are people pushing Marshall from Wichita St. Rumor was that he turned down Yow when she offered Shaka the job first. Don’t know if that rumor is true and even if it is, don’t know Marshall’s opinion of DY today. So I can’t say that he would really be a likely candidate or not.
I’m also not sure he is worth what it would take to get him. But the press conferences would sure be fun (as long as he was winning anyway).
I am to the point I want there to be zero reason for Yow to keep Gott.
From a basketball perspective, we’re already there. I’m hopeful that State has the finances to pull off a coaching change with two sets of buyouts (Based on $ info posted above). Also buyouts are rarely lump sum payouts. See “Fowler, Lee”.
But “hopeful” is far short of “certain”. After Hewitt’s disastrous contract, GT had to suck it up for a while after getting rid of Hewitt. I can’t say for sure exactly what State’s financial situation is.
Here’s an incomplete data point:
For the year ending 6/1/2015; NC State’s Athletic Dept reported that total revenue exceeded total expenses by almost $7M.Based on a review of all of the ACC schools that I did about the time Marvin got caught eating doughnuts, total revenue would include all monies transferred from the Wolfpack Club to the Athletic Dept. But there is no way to know exactly what the Wolfpack Club took in for that year. I also don’t know exactly what happened to that athletic dept surplus of $7M.
But the only data available to you and me suggests that the athletic dept is no longer barely scraping by.
https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/details
(It appears that I can’t directly link to NC State data.)
PS – Several more snippets of interesting information from this web site:
Undergraduate population: 11,800 men vs 9,500 women. That’s a substantial increase in the female percentage since I started school a lifetime ago.
“Not Allocated Revenue” = $13M. Is this the annual check from the ACC?
I generally watch until it turns ugly. It’s a technique I’ve used since Les was modeling sweaters on the sideline.
An average coach can win in Raleigh. That’s been proven.
I agree with most of what you wrote, but not this. You’re going to have to hire an above average coach if you want to consistently win in the ACC. An average coach is going to top out somewhere in the middle of the ACC. We’ve done that twice now….and we’ve done even worse.
Unfortunately, we have spent a little too much time on the NIT bubble over the years
Isn’t that the truth!
Knowing what you know now – would any of you still take Gott over:
I didn’t need today’s knowledge to want a different coach. But to be fair, he accomplished more than I was expecting in the first four years at State…but the accomplishments were about what I thought was his upper limit.
That is her call, and so far she is on Gott’s side.
I would expect her to be on his side through the season. If she can afford the buyout, then I also expect her to move after the season assuming that the current dumpster fire continues.
but I definitely heard rumblings during the Sean courtship, that Sean said hell no in terms of working for DY.
That’s something different. CD was talking about not wanting to work for a short-timer, not DY specifically.
If Miller wanted to come, do you honestly believe that with Yow on the short side, he’d give one sh#t about who might or might not be the new “boss? ”
ADs come and go much quicker than they did when I was in school. Even if DY was in her 40s, there is no guarantee how long she would stay in Raleigh. So it might make a difference to some prospective coaches, but it really shouldn’t. Win are you’re golden, lose and you’re toast. The butt in the AD chair won’t change that math.
But unless we have a total collapse
Just curious, what do you call the last two seasons?
Perimeter D seems to have gone buh bye again.
Damn. I hate that I missed its rare appearance.
Are these upsets every week good bad or no matter for the pack?
Nothing that happens will have any effect on State until/unless they win a lot more than they have so far.
Arkansas was 7-9
I was hoping that it was worse than that. As you mentioned, State got in with 7-9 and an ACCT upset and UMD did it a few years later. In the comments to the Pre-Season Review, I linked a previous entry where I documented both teams’ OOC wins worth noting and their entire conference schedule in chronological order.
I think all three examples give us some data on what it would take with an 8-10 record. I was hoping to find a precedent for a 7-11 conference record. At the least, it would take a Thursday win. I just don’t know if even that would be enough.
What would be “interesting” would be our status if we go the projected 7-11 and then win 2 or 3 tourney games.
If anyone knows of example(s) of teams going on a streak in the conference tournament (without winning it) and earning a NCAAT bid, I wish that you would list it here so that I can include it in the last bubble report before the ACCT. Even if State doesn’t make it to 7 or 8 wins, someone else will.
The only one that I can think of is Arkansas went to the conference finals the same year that Sid made it to the ACCT finals. The details (including year) are fuzzy, but I need to dig up the details on that.
There might be something in the BE history before the ACC raided it and the remnants split into two conferences. I don’t know because I never paid them any attention (other than their annual beat down in the old ACC/BE challenge).
I don’t know anything about teamrankings.com, but they have ranked State’s remaining games by difficulty and assigned odds to State winning. It’s going to be tough to come up with six wins:
After the beat downs in the OOC schedule, the best case scenario was to get to 9-9 while picking up an upset or two along the way. But they dug a big hole with the losses to BC on the road and then GT and WF at home (and to a lesser extent the road loss to Miami.) I don’t think that any reasonable projection would get to 9-9 without wins in at least two of those four losses.
A loss Sunday @L’ville would mean that State would need a 6-3 record in the second half of the conference schedule. My fear is that the hole is simply too deep now to climb out of…unless of course a lot of other teams forget how to shoot 3’s like Duke did.
EDIT to add this from yahoo.com:
SECOND-HALF REVERSAL
N.C. State shot 55 percent after halftime, while Duke went from shooting 57 percent before halftime to 38 percent after the break. That included the Blue Devils missing 12 of 14 3-point tries in the final 20 minutes.
Ignore our rpi for now.
I used to fixate on States RPI. Now I pay much more attention to our opponents RPI…looking for good wins and bad losses. But as chop says, we can just watch the ACC record. 9-9 and State’s in.
VAWOLF82 – Thanks for your patience but I am still struggling. Your above link to the NCAA RPI calculations shows NC State’s RPI at 60. ESPN’s current calculation puts it at 56. I can see where different sites can vary this much but the first chart in your entry reflects our RPI at 72. I must be missing something.
Look at note under RPI table. Values through Sunday’s games to keep everyone on an even footing. Updated values shown on graphs for Duke and State to show effect of Monday’s game.
