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Here are SD’s highest paid players this season:
QB Philip Rivers
DT Corey Liuget
FS Eric Weddle
ILB Donald Butler
WR Malcom Floyd
LG Orlando Franklin
P Mike Scifres
CB Brandon Flowers
LT King Dunlap
RB Donald BrownYou want to say Rivers is 1-2? Just look at that group. The only one of them who might be living up to his contract so far is Scifres.
Rivers is a great QB, but he requires at least a semi-competent OL. I don’t recall ever seeing a QB take a beating like Rivers did on Sunday. He was pulled from the game for his own safety! How often does that happen in the NFL? I can’t name one other time, though I’m sure there are some examples.
Much more of the blame for this goes to Telesco, McCoy, and the rest of the coaching staff, most notably OC Reich and DC Pagano. This team is a disaster, and it starts at the top.
Frankly, it makes me sick to see N.C. State fans criticizing Rivers. It makes me think those fans don’t follow the Chargers and aren’t watching the games. Or just don’t understand NFL football.
All teams drop passes.
I don’t want to be drawn further into a discussion that sounds like I’m criticizing Brissett, so I’ll stop now. I made my position clear enough. And, again, I’d love to be wrong on this.
I don’t remember being more excited for a basketball season. And that’s a year BEFORE the motherlode comes in.
Same here, at least not since V. I am optimistic this is going to be our best season since 1988-89.
You’ve got to understand that saying “ceiling” means there’s maybe a 10-15% shot he hits it. Just that such a ceiling exists. VERY different from the floor. PR and RW have set the bar very high, no doubt whatsoever.
I understand what ceiling means. But to say you think there is a 10% chance that he will be better than Rivers is to essentially say you think there is a 10% chance that he is a HOF QB. In the NFL’s modern era, which dates back to the 1950s, there have been 23 QBs selected for the HOF, and we know that Favre, Peyton, Brady, and Brees will join them, and also probably Warner, Roethlisberger, Eli, and Rodgers. So you are saying you think there is a 10% chance that Brissett is one of the top 35 or so QBs to play in the past 60 years.
It is possible, but I think you are overstating both his ceiling and the likelihood that he reaches it. That caliber of QB is usually much more of a standout in college than Brissett has been.
Just look at the first page of his Rotoworld page: http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/cfb/130836/jacoby-brissett. There are criticisms about inconsistency, fundamentals, accuracy, needing to get faster at progressing through his reads, spraying throws, getting rattled by pressure, and fumbling. One analyst rated him as the #18 QB in the nation in August. There are many positives noted as well, of course, but the point is that QBs of the caliber you are referencing don’t normally have these types of flaws in their game after 4 years of college football.
But if Jacoby’s accuracy stays this good, on top of his insane arm strength…just watch the dude’s mechanics. And his measureables are straight out of central scout casting.
I seriously doubt he will maintain his current accuracy of 77.9%. He is obviously going to face much better defenses going forward and also will not have the luxury of playing with a comfortable lead like he has had throughout this season so far. His accuracy was below 60% last season and was a weakness. I certainly hope it will improve this year given the experience he gained last year, but it isn’t reasonable to believe it will stay as good as it has been this year.
Anyway, having said all that, I’m a big JB fan and I hope you are right.
To say Brissett’s ceiling is greater than Rivers and Wilson is to say that Brissett is talented enough to not only start in the NFL for 15 years but also to play at a Pro Bowl level or better. I hope you guys are right, but I don’t see that level of talent and potential when I watch him play. I also think this comparison is selling both Rivers and Wilson short by a lot.
Jacoby Brissett has a higher NFL ceiling than Philip Rivers or Russell Wilson.
THERE. I said it.
I am a big fan, but he is a long shot to ever start a game in the NFL. LMFAO at thinking he can outperform Rivers and/or Wilson.
Status of 2016-17 recruiting class:
PG Smith (#1 PG, #5 overall) — committed
PF Bam Adebayo (#3 PF, #8 overall) — expected commit
SG Rawle Alkins (#8 SG, #29 overall) — good chance, strong connection to DSG & Bam
C Udoka Azubuike (#1 C, #10 overall) — staff making a pushScholarship spacing for 2016-17:
Senior Class
(1) Anthony Barber (PG)
(2) BeeJay Anya (5C)
(3) Lennard Freeman (4F / 5C)
(4) Terry Henderson (2G / Wing)Junior Class
(5) Caleb Martin (Wing)
(6) Cody Martin (Wing)
(7) Abdul Malik Abu (4F)Sophomore Class
(8) Shaun Kirk (F)
(9) Torin Dorn (SG)
(10) Maverick Rowan (3F)Freshman Class (2016 Commits)
(11) Dennis Smith (PG)
(12) Bam Adebayo (PF)?
(13)Beautiful scholarship spacing here.
Reasonable assumptions:
1. Cat goes pro, whether to the NBA or otherwise.
2. Bam commits to State.Given those reasonable assumptions, that makes a best case scenario as follows:
PG – Smith, Dorn
SG – Henderson, Rowan
SF – Martin, Martin, Kirk
PF – Abu, Adebayo
C – Anya, FreemanI know some people expect Abu and/or Anya could decide to turn pro, even if they wouldn’t really be ready to do so. I suppose it is also possible one or more of the wings could transfer over playing time, particularly if State signs Alkins, but I don’t really want to speculate on such negativity.
That is a loaded roster that should be great both offensively and defensively, both in half court and full court. It is a roster with a lot of hard nosed, tough players — tough physically and mentally. And with 6 upperclassmen, it is a roster loaded with experience.
That roster can compete with any roster in the nation and is a contender for ACC championship and national championship.
This is exactly what I hoped for in the Gott era. As K, Roy, Boeheim, and Pitino all age out, State is poised to move into the top tier of the ACC and dominate. (Don’t turn this into a negative — State is competitive with those programs now. Just saying those programs will likely slip in the future while at the same time State is getting better.)
Good times.
Looks like 12-13 OOC wins and 11-13 ACC wins IMO. Call it 25 wins and 12-6 in conference. Should be good enough for at least 4th in the ACC and a top 5 NCAA seed.
I am cautiously optimistic this will be State’s best year since 1988-89.
^You really aren’t looking at it from a “business angle” if you think it was advisable for the team to move on from Rivers rather than paying him his market value.
As for Eli, the Giants will ultimately give him an extension at his market value (similar to Rivers and Roethlisberger) for the same reasons San Diego extended Rivers.
It is much better for NFL teams to pay market value for a franchise QB than to not have a franchise QB, and it’s not close. I’m surprised that some people have such a hard time understanding and accepting this simple fact.
All of the above QB have won superbowls. If SD is dumb enough to pay him that much, so be it. They won’t be smart enough to revisit.
All of the other QBs you are referring to had teams around them that were strong enough (players and coaching) that they could lead them to Super Bowl titles. Rivers hasn’t had that. Apples and oranges.
Tau: I figured that was your opinion. It doesn’t make my opinion wrong.
Right. I agreed with you (see my last quote and comment). 🙂
On the metrics, I’m using the same source as you. I just interpret them differently than you. That can always be done with statistics/metrics.
You are saying that we can interpret $6M cap space remaining differently. This just seems to be more semantics than anything. For example, what do you think Telesco should have done with that $6M that he hasn’t done?\
Wait, I just remembered you wouldn’t have paid Rivers. So what would you have done instead with the cap space? Why not make it concrete instead of vague? What would you have done to improve the team?
TThe original point is what I would have done, which would not have been to extend unless I were moving the franchise and felt that having Rivers made franchise movement more attractive to LA. That’s the angle from which it makes sense to me, so that is what I suspect will happen. We shall see.
There is no way to “see”. Rivers is signed. If the team moves to LA, you cannot know in what way Rivers at QB influences the franchise success (or lack thereof), vs. if he had not been signed. I get that you are saying this angle makes sense to you. I assure you, it does not make economic sense. But I will agree to disagree.
VAWolf82: I agree with you and mentioned that in the Marino parallel. I fully suspect that this contract will be revisited.
Barring injury, I very strongly doubt that it will be revisited. Can you name some instances of QB contracts that were revisited as the QB reached older ages?
Do you think Roethlisberger’s contract will be revisited?
Do you think Brady’s contract will be revisited?
Do you think Brees’s contract will be revisited?
Etc.Could it be possible that the local talk media for the Bolts spins things in a way that is appealing to the local fan? Might that analysis be possibly slanted to what people want to hear?
Yes, it’s possible. It’s also *possible* that I am smart enough to filter that stuff. :rolleyes:
The local coverage here is balanced. There is plenty of criticism of Chargers ownership, management, coaching, and players.
LA has a mixed history with NFL football. I’d argue the support isn’t necessarily automatically there given how many teams have moved out. You have to look no further than UCLA or the Lakers to see that the stadiums there get full for a winner, but people don’t show up for a loser. If you’re moving to LA, it’s better to bring something you can sell a ticket to. If that’s SD management’s thinking, then good for them.
Disagree with this take. Bottom line, if the Chargers move from San Diego to LA, it is estimated that the value of the franchise will increase by close to $1B. Yes, that is one billion with a ‘b’. News flash: that isn’t because of wins and losses in the first few seasons or because of who is starting at QB.
Prior to this Rivers move, SD was 12th in the league in open cap space. After this move, they’ve still got open cap room. Maybe that’s good cap management, or maybe it’s a sign that they’re cheap? If you look at future projected cap spending in guaranteed contracts and take out the Rivers spend, they’re near the top in open cap space. Outside if this deal, it kind of supports the theory that the franchise is being run on the lower end of the scale. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but is consistent with the opinion of the Chargers from people who live in other markets.
As expected, you don’t seem to have valid metrics on this point. The Chargers are currently #25 in open cap space, with ~$6.1M available. The amount of cap space that was available before the Rivers deal is completely irrelevant, since obviously the team knew they were planning to extend Rivers, and this pretty much invalidates the rest of your paragraph here. The amount of cap space available now is close to normal operating level for the season.
Furthermore, although unlikely, they could still choose to extend Weddle, which would require more cap space. Also note that Telesco signed Brandon Flowers late in the offseason/preseason last year, and he is now a key player for the team. Maintaining some cap space is a philosophical approach that has been successful so far.
Then you’ve got the general view of SD franchise management as a whole. The Mannings made the power play to avoid SD and they did it for a reason. Elway made a similar move years ago to get away from the Colts and it turned out to be a great thing for him. It looks like the same for Eli, with Rivers on the unfortunate end of that. Let’s be honest. Is there any doubt that Rivers would have been better off with the Giants?
None of this has anything to do with your original post to which I responded. You said you wouldn’t have paid Rivers if you were the Chargers. If anything, you citing that NFL players have reason to avoid the Chargers shows that they should indeed have paid Rivers, since it would apparently be harder for them to get another quality QB to join the team.
Whether or not Rivers would have been better off with the Giants is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. (Though I think the answer is yes.)
I personally wouldn’t have paid Rivers that. He’s a great player, and I love the guy, but he’s 33 years old, which by most studies of NFL positional age is on the back side of his career. The peak for QBs is typically 32 with performance reduction each season afterwards. This contract runs through when he’s 37. Very few QBs have played at a high level at that age and the ones that do are typically surrounded by very good teams. I already think he’s been playing injured for at least one full season.
This is antiquated thinking. The history of the NFL is not relevant here. Current rules, medical treatment, and training methods are making it more feasible for QBs to play well to a much older age.
Favre, Warner, Peyton, Elway, and Moon are examples of QBs who had great seasons at age 38. Brady will likely join them this season. Brees will likely join them next season. Roethlisberger and Eli could join them in a few seasons. Rodgers could join them after that. Etc. And a larger number of QBs had great seasons at age 37. Notice the trend.
Bottom line, if he doesn’t suffer a serious injury, which is not predictable, Rivers is likely to play at a NFL franchise QB level for the duration of this contract.
Of course, I could be completely wrong.
With all due respect, yes, you are wrong.
Tau:
One thing we both have failed to mention is that it is the owners that ultimately pay these salaries. As you say, McCoy and Telesco could be on the street in a couple of years. I would argue that performance could be defined differently by different people. It’s not always about the W/L, but often about the bottom line of the business. When I think of SD as a franchise, I think of one that has historically been run on the cheap. I suspect one of McCoy and Telesco’s metrics that they’re measured on is probably the bottom line.
The one thing that I think might be in play here is that Rivers on the Bolts makes them better in the short term. That makes them more attractive for a move to LA. I suspect that could be the thinking of the owners. They can pitch “an emerging contender with a franchise QB” as opposed to a “young team that is building towards the future.”
I see this deal as a sign that the Bolts are moving, and that Philip is moving with them.
I have to disagree.
1. Let me note that I live in San Diego, I follow the Chargers closely, listen to Chargers talk radio, read Chargers blogs, etc.
2. When moving a team into a new market, the enthusiasm for the team will likely rarely be stronger. Hence, said team does not need to be a winning team. You can look at the history of expansion teams and moved teams in the major sports to judge whether or not this is true. This undermines most of your post.
3. If you want to say the Chargers have been cheap, show me some data/metrics. For example, I’m not aware they have typically/consistently had a salary cap figure that is near the bottom of the league. So what do you base this comment on, other than common rhetoric?
ETA: Your first post said you wouldn’t have paid Rivers, and I disagreed. Then you responded to talk about a possible strategy without commenting on the original subject of discussion. So, upon further reflection, would you have paid him or not?
^Completely disagree.
1. There aren’t enough quality NFL QBs for each team to have one. Teams that have one have little choice but to pay market value to keep them, except in very rare situations where two get paired on one team, enabling the team to let the veteran go (e.g., Brees and Rivers, Favre and Rodgers, Montana and Young). The alternative is typically to go through an extended period of years with poor to mediocre QB play, which significantly raises the odds of a losing record over that lengthy period.
2. Rivers is one such quality NFL QB. He is a consensus top 10 NFL QB and has been for a long time. He is among the top Chargers players of all time, with Seau, Fouts, Tomlinson, Alworth, Winslow, and Gates; he has a shot to end up as the best player in franchise history. Furthermore, he is well liked by teammates and fans, is a strong leader, has no character issues, etc. Pretty much a model franchise QB.
3. GMs and coaches do not have lasting job security in the NFL. It’s easy for you to say that the team should have built for the future, but McCoy and Telesco could be on the street in two years if the team isn’t performing.
Add it all up and it was a nobrainer for the Chargers to extend him.
Also, did I miss something with Notre Dame? They lost Grant and Connaughton, their best two players, and added zero top 100 recruits. How do they rate a 5 seed?
I am optimistic that we are set to have our best season since 1988-89 this year. Assuming our rotation players stay healthy, I think we will finish top 4 in conference, which should be good enough for a 4 seed or better.
I love this team and the lineup possibilities it provides to the coaching staff. It should be better on defense this year than last year, and it should also be better offensively, if Cat continues his late season play from last year.
I think this is the year to go beyond the Sweet 16.
I am optimistic that this season is going to be our most successful season since 1988-89. I really like this team. And if we get DSJ and Bam, next season should be even better. Good times.
^Scott Wood had 7 3-pointers in a game once and 6 quite a few times. Not sure where to find the State record.
Can anyone guess who posted this gem just over 3 months ago?
Mark Turgdeon’s doing pretty well BUILDING his program up at Maryland. Not sure what Gott is building other than a house of cards. No seniors or freshman? SEVEN scholarship players? Enjoy another bubble year because the future looks dim.
Let’s just hope we only have one more year of Gott and can hire Archie next year.
I haven’t seen him posting much recently… not enough doom and gloom to draw him in?
^I have full trust in Gott and our staff. I’m certain they are aware of the potential issues. Given that, if they decide to take him, I trust that they know what they are getting and are confident they can handle him.
He would give us two years of value. This year, his value would be in practice, since our current roster is short of quality bodies to scrimmage. Next year, he would be an experienced fifth year senior, who is known as a great defensive player. Best case is that we get Bam and still have all of Abu, Anya, and Freeman, and all of them stay healthy all season, in which case he probably wouldn’t play much but would still serve as valuable depth. And how likely is that best case, i.e., that we get Bam *and* that all of Abu, Anya, and Freeman are still on the team and all of them stay healthy? Heck, even in that case, who knows, maybe Freeman would redshirt.
It absolutely makes sense on every level to go after him provided the staff is comfortable with his attitude and ability to handle the situations I described here, i.e., potential for low minutes.
