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^Even 2 year postseason ban should have a serious impact on:
1. Current roster, as NCAA would be likely to allow transfers without penalty
2. Short term recruiting
3. Long term recruiting, since winning should drop off short term and key coach(es) could choose to leaveCombine that with DD building great relationships with in-state HS coaches, and the opportunity will be there to take a step forward in recruiting. It’s up to the coaching staff to capitalize on that opportunity.
I’m probably in a very small minority here, but I fully believe Gott could take us to the final four if he can land us a couple of back to back top 10 recruiting… Get to the F4 and anything can happen. The dude can motivate in the post season no question in my mind.
I’m with you.
If recruiting continues a slow decline in the next couple years…
It is true that recruiting has declined — #4 class in 2012, #15 in 2013, #22 in 2014, not in top 30 in 2015. (Rivals class rankings.)
However, Gott has signed the #1 PG for next year, a top 5 overall recruit, and he is in the hunt for multiple other highly ranked recruits. My guess is that he will have another top 25 class for next year.
As things look today, there is little reason to expect any rotation players to leave other than Cat, but we will gain DSJ, Dorn, and Henderson to go along with matured/better versions of the Martins, Abu, Freeman, and Anya. That looks like a great team, and that doesn’t account for any other signings (Alkins? Azubuike? etc.).
Meanwhile, I think this year’s team will end up better than a lot of fans expect at this point. I expect another NCAA bid, and Gott has proven that he can win games in the postseason. A late season boost from Henderson should help.
He is proven to be just what he is. Take away the miracle sweet 16’s and its a pretty crappy run all things considered.
So you’re saying if we take away his two best postseasons, his tenure doesn’t look as good? Well, no ****, Sherlock. How about if we take away Valvano’s two best postseasons? How does he look then? The premise is ridiculous.
My fear is that we’re looking at HWSNBN v2 with Gott.
I don’t see this.
2011-12:
Took over team that was 15-16 (5-11) in 2010-11 and had not made NCAA tournament since 2005-06
20-11 (9-7) regular season, 4-2 postseason, 24-13 (11-8) overall2012-13:
22-9 (11-7) regular season, 2-2 postseason, 24-11 (13-8) overall
Beat UNC and #1 Duke2013-14:
Lost starters Brown, Leslie, Howell, and Wood from previous season
19-12 (9-9) regular season, 3-2 postseason, 22-14 (11-10) overall2014-15:
Lost ACC POY Warren from previous season
19-12 (10-8) regular season, 3-2 postseason, 22-14 (11-10) overall
Beat Duke, UNC, Louisville, #1 seed VillanovaOverall entering this season:
Regular season 80-44 (.645), ACC 46-36 (.561), postseason 12-8 (.600), overall 92-52 (.638)
4 NCAA bids in 4 seasons, 2 S16s
Has recruited well
Teams are typically competitive with the best teams in the country
Teams and players have typically shown improvement throughout seasons and careersThe 2012-13 season was disappointing, but overall it feels like he has done a good job. He coached the team to wins over 5 HOF coaches, most with better teams, just last season (K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim, Wright). That proves he can coach.
The biggest thing that has hurt the program during his tenure is not transfers, where IMO the guys who have transferred in have more than offset the guys who transferred out. It is not recruiting… notable misses on Jefferson and Bam certainly hurt, but overall Gott has recruited well. What has really hurt are the guys who left early to go pro — Leslie, Brown, Warren, Lacey. All of them would have been difference makers if they stayed longer.
But that is college basketball today. And in each of those cases, I understand their decisions to leave early.
Like others, I would like to see more success. I would like to see better defensive coaching, which at this point suggests turning over some assistant coaches. I would like to see a more extensive use of the available scholarships to provide more depth and potential on the roster. I would like to see fewer players departing the program early.
But in the big picture, I don’t see HWSNBN 2 at all. I see a guy who has elevated and stabilized the program from where it was when he got here. And in a much tougher ACC than it was in HWSNBN’s tenure.
This is a classic be careful what you wish for moment. If Gott leaves, it is much more likely we will end up with a coach that is worse than a coach that is better.
I seriously question Gottfried and his ability to develop players. I’ve seen only 2 improve under him and you have to question just how much was MG and how much was them.
Tree beard and tj
Add Calvin and Lo Brown to that list. Lo is still the best PG we have had since Corch.
The question with Leslie, Brown, and Howell becomes how much was it player development and how much was they were able to actually run a system vs pick up ball. Howell was producing the same under Lowe as he did under MG, he just had more minutes to produce when Tracy Smith left and he did so without dropping off. The same can be said of Warren’s 2 years, did the same both years just did more of it his second season.
In the end I don’t know if those 4 improved under Gott but a legit argument could be made for either side for Leslie, Brown, and Howell. I think Barber has clearly improved his game from previous years. Barber is the only one that I can look at and say he’s definitely a better player today than when he arrived. I can’t say that about any other player MG has coached at State and even if you included the first 4 that’s a pretty short list after +4 years.
Howell, Warren, and Vandenburg made significant physical transformations under Gott and his staff. I suppose the same is true of Anya. I realize the physical transformation is only part of it, but there is no refuting this, just look at the tape.
I disagree with the notion that Howell and Warren did not improve but simply maintained the same level of play with more minutes. Are you saying you don’t think Warren was a better player, with better skills and better IQ, when he left than when he arrived? Same question for Howell, from the time Gott arrived to when Howell left? I disagree strongly.
OK, maybe Leslie and Brown did benefit from a system vs. pickup ball… but, regardless, that is improvement under Gott. And for Brown in particular, he absolutely was a better PG when he left than when Gott arrived. That should be credited at least in part to Gott and the staff.
People tend to ignore the improvements Lacey and Turner made under Gott, but compare their time at State to their seasons at LSU and Bama. They were significantly improved under Gott.
When you put it as “definitely a better player than when he arrived” I don’t see how you can suggest the Martins don’t qualify. They both seem to have improved in their basketball IQ and in their individual skills. And both are obviously still young with more room to grow.
I seriously question Gottfried and his ability to develop players. I’ve seen only 2 improve under him and you have to question just how much was MG and how much was them.
Tree beard and tj
Add Calvin and Lo Brown to that list. Lo is still the best PG we have had since Corch.
Those who don’t see players improving under Gott must not be paying attention. Most of Gott’s players have improved under him, but most notably Howell, Leslie, Brown, Warren, Barber, Lacey, and Turner. The Martins both look like we’ll be adding them to that list soon.
I therefore expect them to understand than when a given assumption is removed from a stated proposition, the reasoning dependent upon that assumption is no longer valid, as is the proposition itself.
Or it may be that the given assumption was faulty, which invalidated the reason from the start.
Usually I find myself aligned with your perspective, but you are just being obstinate on this one.
Agreed, very little chance they can hang on to both of those guys with what is coming. Best they can hope for is Fedora gets a job this year and Chizik is inked to be the head guy. That actually concerns me though as Chizik is a far better coach.
I don’t know whether they will be able to sustain it but right now they are beating us by a wide margin as far as recruiting goes.
It seems likely that the UNC sanctions will include the following for football:
1. Loss of multiple scholarships for multiple years.
2. Recruiting restrictions.
3. Minimum 1 year postseason ban.Combine that with departure of Fedora and/or Chizik, and there should be a big negative impact on their recruiting. That, in turn, should create more opportunity for our staff. Given they have already signed some recruits for the 2016 class, the real impact may not hit until the 2017 class.
The biggest deal of all IMO is if the NCAA decides to allow transfers without sitting out. That would almost certainly lead to some starters transferring to avoid the postseason ban.
They could easily be a shell of the team they are now as soon as next season, and the recruiting impact and coaching changes probably means they will be slow to rebound.
Tough schedule next year: at Clemson, Notre Dame, FSU, at UNC, at Louisville, Miami, at Syracuse, BC, Wake, at ECU, ODU. Especially with a new QB. We are probably looking at a worse record next year than this year. I like DD, but regressing in record next year is going to make his seat pretty hot in 2017.
I’m of the opinion that our team shouldn’t be so fragile as to let a rightly called late hit, regardless of which ref called it, cause them to give up 35 points in 15 minutes of football.
THIS IS AWFUL. We came out flat, tentative, and weak. Don’t do or say ANYTHING that looks like excuse making. For f-ck’s sake.
But yesterday was about showing up for a big moment timid, and getting our ass handed to us.
Agree 100%
The announcers are idiots. They don’t “get” why State isn’t rushing on this drive. It’s because we are trying to get a TD and get into halftime with no further damage, then score on the opening drive of the second half to make it a game.
Brissett is not sharp today, and we can’t beat this team with our defense unless he has one of the best games of his career. It’s just not happening. As of right now, he is 7/17 for 121 yards. Not good enough for us to compete with UNC’s offense this year.
We can only hope they get hammered with sanctions next spring, Chizik leaves, and the NCAA allows transfers without penalty, which depletes their roster.
Other than being blindingly white, there’s really not much comparison between Wood and GFK. I think GFK’s release is much, much quicker. Plus he’s already MUCH quicker, has MUCH more upper body definition, etc. Can also create his own shot, and dribble drive if the defender overpursues.
Has the raw materials to be really, really special and not a Wood/BSW-caliber role player.
Agree with most of this, but not seeing that Mav’s release is “much, much quicker.” I am very excited about his potential, though. The upside of Henderson’s injury is that the extra minutes Mav is playing now should accelerate his development and make him more effective during ACC play.
Its X’s and O’s and we ain’t Gott it.
Can anyone break down how the division of responsibility is handled between Gott and the assistants, and what the strengths are of all of the assistants?
IMO Gott seems like a coach who is good at a lot of important stuff: recruiting, media, player relationships/management, motivation. When it comes to Xs and Os, his strength is supposedly offense, though I think that supposed strength might be overrated.
But we have a lot of conversation in this forum about consistent weaknesses of his teams, namely defense (of all kinds, i.e., man-to-man, zone, press) and rebounding. Wouldn’t a coach like Gott benefit from having assistants who are specifically strong in these areas? Does he have that on staff? If not, why not?
I like Gott a lot. But I wonder if he and our team would benefit from a shakeup within his staff.
FML when it comes to the sports teams I pull for (Pack, Dolphins, Orioles, Pacers)
I got you beat: Pack, Chargers, Padres.
I have to agree that bringing Case and Sloan into a comparison with today is invalid. Apples and oranges.
Valvano was clearly better than Gott; he had all of the positives Gott has but was also much better at coaching the game.
IMO Gott is clearly better than Lowe, Robinson, and Sendek. Yes, Lowe and Robinson established a low bar. But these are the coaches we have had in our recent basketball history, and Gott is clearly better.
Sadly, we will probably never have another coach as good as V leading our program. Will we ever have one better than Gott? Maybe, but it is no given. Just look at our track record in trying to attract strong head coaching candidates in our past few searches.
Of course I want more success as a fan, but I am very happy with Gott.
The majority of Gott’s team’s success has always seemed to rest on outside shooting. TJ was an aberration (a fantastic one!), but it’s seemed to me that we’ve needed a Scott Wood, a Ralston Turner, or a Trevor Lacey to get hot and hit that key shot to win the important games. The mature player that knows when and how to get that score.
How many teams are there in this era of college basketball who win consistently without good outside shooting? I don’t see this as a Gott specific issue.
I just found what looks like a great site when searching for State’s ACC records:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/Great site. And great sister sites linked at the top for pro football, pro basketball, and college basketball.
The turning point was the offensive possession before it. When you have the ball where we did, you have to think about the clock strategy. If you are going to kick, then that has to happen with almost no time on the clock. Conversely, if you’ve got a kicker who has struggled and who already had a PAT blocked, you should be calling the plays with 4 downs in mind. If someone wants to point to where we lost it, it was leading into missed FG attempt. IT was not what happened once Clemson got the ball back.
Sadly, this isn’t the first time this staff has botched clock management. TOB was surprisingly bad at it as well. It’s amazing really when you think about what these guys get paid.
I agree with the original post that the onsides kicks were the right thing. The only way to win that game was to generate extra possessions. Given we don’t force them on defense, we had to do them with special teams. The return for TD as great as it was didn’t generate an extra possession. We had to do that with onsides kicks or punt blocks. We were really close to a key punt block as well.
I won’t go as far as to say that because we tried onsides kicks that it means that the staff will ultimately be successful. I’ve seen way too many questionable things the last 2.5 years to jump to that conclusion. It does show that they understood the mismatch and were playing to win. That was better than quitting, which I saw far too much in the TOB tenure.
Agree 100%.
Sure Tau. We missed another FG,and as Stevens was closing on a football, he got chest planted with a stiffarm. No call, lost lead. Simple as that.
That’s it, huh? No criticism for leaving 30 seconds on the clock in that situation? No criticism for Brissett’s terrible decision/play on 3rd down? OK.
As I posted earlier, Brissett really choked up at the end of the first half, and it really cost us.
We were leading 20-19. Clemson punted. Here is the sequence that followed:
1. We started the drive in Clemson territory with 2:54 remaining. The #1 objective for this drive should have been to get points, but a close second should have been to keep the ball away from Clemson the rest of the half to preserve the lead, especially since Clemson was to get the ball to open the second half.
2. On the first play, Dayes runs 21 yards, giving us 1st and 10 at the Clemson 25 with 2:47 remaining. Once the ball was set, the clock started running. Brissett snapped the ball for the next play with 16 seconds remaining on the play clock.
3. On the second play, Brissett completed a pass to Trowell for 8 yards, giving us 2nd and 2 at the Clemson 17 with 2:23 remaining and the clock running. Once again, Brissett snapped the ball for the next play with 16 seconds remaining on the play clock.
4. On the third play, Brissett completed a shovel pass to Samuels for a 1 yard loss, giving us 3rd and 3 at the Clemson 18. Not sure there was really any better option for Brissett on the play… he could have kept it but might have lost more than 1 yard himself, and throwing the ball away would have stopped the clock, so his decision on the play was okay, Clemson just defended it well. The clock continued to run, and State called timeout with 5 seconds left on the play clock. Fortunately for State, the clock operator ran an extra 3 seconds off the clock, and they were not added back afterwards. So 1:12 remained on the clock at that point. The timeout seemed to be called from the sideline, and it may be that the coaching staff felt they had to call it before Brissett snapped the ball, which is why they did it with 5 seconds remaining.
5. On the fourth play, Brissett floated a terrible lateral to Dayes in the flat, and he had no chance to do anything with it once he caught it, leading to a 9 yard loss (and his injury). Clemson called timeout to stop the clock with 59 seconds remaining. Brissett has got to be smart enough to read multiple Clemson defenders in position to tackle Dayes for a loss, with no State blockers in the area to help him out, and he also can’t put so much air under that ball. It would have been much better if he just pulled the ball down and ran forward and got whatever he could. In this case, it would have been fine to throw the ball away if he could have done so without grounding it. This play was about not taking a big loss, which is exactly what happened.
Things would have played out differently if this sequence was managed better, and there is no way to know for sure how much it would have mattered.
– Would Clemson have been able to score if they had 28 seconds remaining rather than 59 seconds remaining when they took over? Would State’s defense have been called differently and able to keep Clemson in front of them?
– Would the FG have been missed if not for the 9 yard loss? Certainly the kick that happened looks like it would have missed, but who knows if he would have yanked it that way if he was closer…?
– Would the second half have been different if Dayes wasn’t injured on that play? (I understand this wasn’t really Brissett’s fault, but it was an outcome of his decision and throw on the play.)Bottom line, this is the second time in a few games that Brissett has botched the end sequence of the first half (Louisville was the other). This apparently needs to become a point of emphasis with Brissett and the coaches.
