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Good game. We took care of business on the road in a must win situation. We can’t have any more non-conference losses.
Cat’s really blossomed as a player. For those knocking player development, he’s an example of one that has really improved in his time in Raleigh. I know that he put in the work, but it shows you players can and do develop under this staff.
redisgood: I think Rowan was our best remaining player available that had a chance at providing the scoring left open by Lacey. We had Henderson slotted to replace Turner. We were slating Dorn to sit and be ready when Lacey left in that combo slot, so the plan clearly was to have Lacey for one more year then hand over to Dorn, Henderson and hopefully DSJ.
I don’t sense we were on Rowan at all until very late. He didn’t reclassify until late. Once Lacey left there were major minutes and shot opportunities open, so we had more to offer than Louisville and got him. That was kind of my take. So, I would say Rowan is trying to fill Lacey’s shoes.
I’ll give the staff credit for the late Rowan get. They matched a need with a good available player.
I can’t understand the front court situation. Even going after the Greek was clearly at most a one year fill in, which meant that two would have be replaced after this year (the Greek and Abu). Even landing Bam would have at most been a 3 man rotation. We clearly needed another big man, and Kirk wasn’t that big man.
Whiteshoes: I’m afraid that you may be right about year 1. Gott was handed a complete roster, but that roster was previously held back by a staff that seemingly didn’t do anything between each game or during the offseason. The team had drastically under performed in comparison to the talent level, so it was an easy and quick fix. That roster was thin, but it had skill at every position and players with clearly defined roles (not really tweeners). I’m afraid we won’t see a roster that good during the remainder of Gott’s tenure here.
redisgood: The officiating changes are another reason to play zone. If you can’t move your feet to help properly and thus reach, then at least zone puts you in a decent starting position, with the basket guarded and the ball in front of you. If you cannot properly teach man to man or don’t have the players to run it properly, then zone is the answer. It’s almost a no brainer for a team this tall, with this little depth, and with a cleaner under the basket.
I have to go with those that are concerned about the same trends year over year. The ones I see are roster management / recruiting strategy, fundamentals and defense (mentioned above).
The roster was mismanaged coming into this season. Sorry, but it was. It was obvious to anyone with a pulse that Washington was gone. I wasn’t as “shocked” by Lacey as others, and that’s the one spot where we actually were able to recruit and try and plug someone in (Rowan). Getting no bigs when you knew at least around January last year that Washington was gone? Not even a grad transfer? Come on. Kirk was a late signee admittedly, but is really raw and his frame is that of a wing player. I can’t see how anyone thought he’d be a significant contributor in year one, particularly not in the post.
It’s the lack of fundamentals and early season results that result in the 4-5 fewer wins per year that result in the lower tournament seed which makes the path tougher. The lack of focus early in the season and in fundamentals cause us to need the late push just to get in.
Then there’s the recruiting angle. ESPN owns college basketball at this point. Go watch on any night and you’ll almost always see the ranked teams play. Heck, UNC vs Tulane was on the other night. How many games have we played on ESPN this year? One? It’s much easier to recruit to a program whose games are on every night, not one that you have to fire up the internet and use ESPN3 and only if you’ve paid the license. It’s much easier to recruit to a program that is in the Top 25 all year. The media recruits for you by keeping you in the discussion, your scores running across the bottom of the screen, etc.. You get advertising all year, not just a couple of weeks in March.
For this program to take the next step, we need to be a fixture in the top 25. For us to do that, we need to fix some of these glaring holes that happen year over year — and many of them relate to fundamentals and defense.
If we don’t correct this stuff, then we’ll effectively plateau. Then the big boosters, AD, school, etc. have to make a tough decision of whether squeaking in and maybe winning a couple in the ACC tournament or NCAA tournament is enough?
The last time we were there, we were very divided as a fan base. You can see it returning now as well.
This team was built to play zone defense — they’re long and have a cleaner in the middle to anchor it. They also lack depth and can’t afford to foul. Yet, we’ve only played it in brief stints during the games I’ve watched.
I’ve not given up on this team, but I’ve not watched for several games now. What I’ve watched hasn’t been pretty and the hits keep on coming.
We’ve got one superstar in Cat, one emerging scorer in Rowan (who needs to learn shot selection). Everyone else is effectively a role player. Talent wise, this team reminds me a lot of Lowe’s teams.
Must win game against Mizzou……………
fastback: My apologies. Not a gambler, so I used the wrong lingo. I sort of meant whatever the line was, I’d take Miss State to cover.
BJD: I initially thought a lot like your last post (puncher’s chance particularly in what should be a home game). One thing I’d add to that is that with Mullen pushing his name for so many jobs, then maybe the team might be distracted or not fully united behind the coach. I also looked at our common opponent (Troy) where we both won by the same margin.
Then I thought about the individual match ups and particularly about our secondary. I thought about how we’ve not beat anyone with a pulse. I’d love for this team to prove me wrong.
I’d have rather played a coachless Navy team up in the Military Bowl. That’s a team we matched up with well.
Winnable? Yes. Likely? No. Take Miss State and the points. We’re not going to match up well in this one.
I’d have much rather bowled down with a chance to build some momentum going into recruiting season.
I think the question is whether NC State’s built in program advantages could push Gott over the top. Will they make his floor higher than the freefall that happened at Alabama? Are they high enough to get the talent to win a talent?
This year is very telling as what I feel like his floor is. If that’s the NCAAs, then we’re not in awful shape.
I question the school’s commitment to actually winning championships — ACC or national. I’m not convinced it is there. If it is not, and NCAAs are kind of the floor, then we’ll see Gott a long, long time.
I’m a bit mixed on this. Historically Gott’s teams have struggled early, peaked at the right time and finished strong. With 4 straight post season opinions, and two Sweet 16s, if anyone deserves some patience to let the season play out, it’s this staff. It’s the best staff and coaching we’ve had since V.
Now the flip side is that I’ve not seen a Gott team with this little talent. We’ve got Cat and a bunch of role players. Our second best player is Caleb Martin and he’s the type of guy that needs to be a 4th option on a really good team. Rowan is Adam Harrington V2. The big men have looked rough. I’ve also not seen us look quite this bad at any point during Gott’s tenure.
My fear is that we’re looking at HWSNBN v2 with Gott. We’re already seeing “4 straight NCAAs” trotted out as blind defense points to specific questions about this year’s team. There are some clear lines in our fan base. Yow’s seemingly squarely in Gott’s camp and just extended his contract. Are we also seeing consistent flaws that will hold us back and prevent us from really breaking through?
My strategy at this point is to not really judge until Henderson is back. If we can beat Mizzou and S. Florida, lose no other games, we’re in decent shape to make a 5th tournament. We really can’t take any more non-conference losses though.
I agree with BJD. It will happen. It’s much more likely than ND fully joining the ACC.
This one will be all about the money, and there will be a lot of money. There’s already tons of money for the NCAA basketball tournament, so for the NCAA football tournament, there will be even more. There will be so much that no one will ignore it, least of all the greedy universities and conferences. Player health? Season length? HAHAHA.
When that happens, I have no clue…………..
This will be significantly improved when the playoff goes to 16 teams. The lesser bowls will get the first round and there will be 15 meaningful games spread out over 3 weekends. That will pretty much cover the viewing appetite of the average “fan.”
There will be some other exhibition game type bowls, but those will only be watched by the alums and fans of the teams participating. That’s pretty much how it is now. These will likely be broadcasted by the networks that don’t get the playoff, so there will be money there because they want some sort of holiday programming. I suspect most of these will fall to the week days so they can air without competition from the meaningful games.
As for the current bowl structure, unless there’s a game that is within local proximity, a destination that I’d just want to visit, or one of the top tier bowls, there’s really no sense in going. There’s absolutely no sense in going to the Boise bowl for instance.
UNC “flipped the script” on NC State. For NC State to have won that game, we needed to come out really hot in the first quarter and then try and hold them off. To their credit, they came out and went straight for the throat. I don’t like them, but they looked like the team on a mission and clearly took care of business.
We were out prepped, out coached, clearly out talented and out motivated. UNC frankly looks better to me right now than Clemson does. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them beat Clemson, as much as it pains me to say it.
It’s classic NC State fan mentality to go into meltdown mode. DD isn’t going anywhere, but I wouldn’t be so sure about Hux. There’s going to be a sacrificial lamb for this season and I suspect he’ll be it.
I do wonder though what some expect a new DC will produce. DD is a defensive coach. You’ve got to think that he has had a heavy hand in the game planning.
The win tonight will help us more than the losses last night and to W&M will hurt us. Maybe that ASU loss hurts us if they tank out in Pac12 play, but I suspect they’ll be a mid-tier Pac12 team.
We really need to to win out non-conference. We could probably afford a loss against Michigan, but we can’t have another outside of that. The team needs a little run to build some confidence heading into league play.
From there, take care of business in the ACC (9-9) and we’re dancing again. The ACC hasn’t looked so good to me that 9-9 isn’t attainable. There’s UNC, Miami, Duke and Virginia, but everyone else looks beatable. If Henderson comes back late, we could get hot at the end.
BJD: I’m with you on that one. Our mission every time we get the ball should be to put it in the end zone. UNC is going to score. If we’re going to win, we’re going to have to score early and often. While field position will be important, this game won’t be won playing Beamerball.
I don’t like our chances, but I really hope the team proves me wrong.
foose: Your take on Syracuse is the same as mine. It’s a “must win” so we don’t take a step backwards.
Take care of business against the Cuse, and get the win. Hopefully we don’t have any more attrition.
Then go play UNC and pull out all the stops. Throw over the top the first play. Jailbreak blitz right off the bat and try and knock Williams out. Go for it on 4th down. Play like there’s nothing to lose, and there’s a chance for a win. Play aggressively for a quarter and then sit on it, and it’s going to get ugly.
The bad news alluded to on the recruiting front is now official. I never had a good feeling about that one.
As for zone, those not wanting it are seemingly operating on the assumption that given the staff won’t teach people how to play proper man to man, that they won’t teach people how to play proper zone. I tend to think there’s less to teach in playing zone — keep your hands up, stay in your area, when the shot goes off, find someone to box out because they will be coming. The only real question is how and when to trap.
My point about Jim Boeheim is that the talent on this team isn’t hopeless. They just have to be used properly. Jim B. would win a lot of games using a 2-3 with this personnel. It’s up to this staff to utilize the players correctly. Playing man to man in a half hearted way seemingly isn’t it.
The scary thing to me is that this is how we look early, yet we had an increase in practice time allowed by the NCAA this year in the summer. How bad would we have looked otherwise?
choppack1: While “wings and things” is an accurate description, this roster is far different than what we had with HWSNBN. That’s kind of the implication of using that term.
HWSNBN built a roster of SGs, SFs, and stretch PFs. They could all shoot the three, made their FTs as a team, were fundamentally sound and weren’t the most athletic. They were very soft in the middle, particularly defensively. Outside of the occasional player like Fells or Grant most were a step slow and not good in the open court.
This team has a good PG and an anchor big man defensively. They are very athletic and get up the court quickly. All the bigs are strong on the inside. They’re not standing at the three point line, vacating the line and trying to knock down a three pointer while completely conceding rebounds. We also have fewer shooters — 2 by my count (Rowan and Martin).
My point is that “wings and things” is a loaded term. We may be wing heavy, but this isn’t the “weave and heave.”
Frankly, if you could merge HWSNBN and Gott, you’d have either a fantastic coach or someone completely schizo. Their strengths and weaknesses are polar opposites.
If we had any depth at PG, this team would be one that would be great to trap and press with. Unfortunately don’t. Better to fall back, zone, and use our height and shot blocking.
Hate to say it, but imagine with Jim Boeheim would do with this roster?
I’ve watched them both so far and…………well…………it’s pretty rough. Everyone involved in the program — coaches, players, trainers and medical staff — has a lot of work ahead if we’re going to make a 5th straight NCAA tournament.
Roster wise, this is Gott’s weakest team unless someone pulls a TJ Warren and just blows up. Abu is trying mightily, but it’s tough to control a game from the PF position.
Caleb Martin is emerging as a solid contributor. That’s nice to see because we’ll definitely need it.
Rowan is reminding me a lot of Adam Harrington. He can put the ball in the hole, but it’s not efficient. He’s going to have to learn shot selection, and how to guard someone.
It was promising to see some zone last night in the second half during when we pulled away. Of course they hit a 3 and then we seemingly went away from it, which is a shame because having guys in solid defensive position suddenly allowed Anya to control the paint.
We’re going to lament Lacey leaving all year, but Washington’s transfer and Graham going to Kansas (read no back up PG) will probably have just as much impact on this year’s results. When these things happened, the casual fan said “no big deal” but these are the types of situations that give you only 3 serviceable big men (one of which is extremely foul prone) and forces your starting PG to play 38+ minutes per game.
Why is Syracuse a must win? We are going to be relegated to a lower tier bowl regardless. Can finish no higher than fourth in the division no matter how we finish the year. Don’t get the logic.
Several reasons:
1) Resiliency: A mark of a good program is that they can put a loss behind them, not let a season spiral.2) Momentum: Don’t want to go into a bowl game on a 3 game skid. Sure we’re bowl eligible, but I’d actually like to see us win it.
3) Any shot at beating UNC: I don’t think we’re going to win this one, but I definitely don’t think we win it if we lose to Syracuse.
4) Recruiting: There’s a huge difference in perceived program direction and what it can do for a recruiting class. Football recruiting and basketball recruiting are much different beasts.
5) Continue the trend of beating the teams we’re supposed to beat: That’s the next step for this program. BC, Wake and Syracuse were the three ACC games that we definitely should have won this year. Let’s go get the third one.
Hmm… The team playing at home is two years removed from a national title and has 4 straight years of top 15 recruiting classes. The team playing on the road has junior and senior classes made up of recruits ranked in the bottom of the ACC. Yet the sky is falling?
I had this one in ink as a loss before the year started. For a quarter it looked like Clemson might beat FSU twice, but Jimbo wisened up, changed QBs, upped the pace, got Cook more involved in the game and that was that.
Do I think this staff is perfect? Nope. I just think what ails us is more than Xs and Os. I also believe that DD will be here 5-6 seasons regardless. We might as well hope for the best.
On to Syracuse. I said after the BC game that Syracuse was must win. I still believe that it is.
Well, last night sucked. I’d thought we’d make a 5th straight tournament, and would finish higher than the preseason media prediction. Last night put us behind the 8 ball on both of those predictions.
We looked………awful. The best one can say is that we have major questions:
– Are we ever going to learn to play man to man defense?
– If the answer is no and that we’re not going to try, are we ever going to be smart enough to play zone? Anya is reason alone to play zone.
– Is Rowan Adam Harrington part 2?
– Was Henderson supposed to be the savior? If so, what do we do for the next 2 months?
– Is Cat the most maddeningly inconsistent PG we’ve ever had? I don’t think last night was the “real” Barber, but then I don’t think it was who we saw get hot at the end of last year either.
– Do we have anyone other than Abu that can score down low?
– Is Caleb Martin really the #2 scoring threat?Shew…… Everyone involved with the program (staff, trainers, medical and players) have got their work cut out for them this year.
VPI really changed the view of the season for many. Had we won that one, the narrative would be very different.
Things that will be telling for me next year are:
– QB play: Who is next after JB? I tend to think it’s the QB redshirting.
– OL play: Someone correctly mentioned that it’s been good and overlooked. We lose some guys. Do we have the depth ready to step up?
– Speed in the back 7: Are we recruiting any? To me, that’s been the biggest issue with the defense.
– FG kicker: Do we go recruit another one?
– WRs: How many are we bringing in? Can they create separation and catch?Notice most of these are recruiting related. I guess that tells you what I think our biggest issues are.
I don’t understand the concerns with Hux. He’s been through the wars (which I think is a good thing for this young staff) and has guided multiple top 20 defenses. I think the defense is fairly fundamentally sound. DD’s also a defensive coach, so you have to think he’s probably involved there as well.
If we want to point to disappointment this year, I think we can point to three things:
1) Non-conference schedule that didn’t prepare us: That loss against Louisville was almost a foregone conclusion as a result. I had it as a L before the year. Hopefully we never see that kind of schedule again.2) VT debacle: That’s the one where had we not just laid down in the second quarter, taken care of business and walked out with a win, we’d all be pretty happy right now. We’d look at Louisville as a missed opportunity, but we’d still be sitting exactly where sane predictions would have had us at this point.
3) UNC’s performance this year: Fair or unfair, UNC’s record right now is something that probably is bothering the average internet poster who finds NC State’s season disappointing. They had UNC chalked up as a win in their predictions and now that game looks like a probable loss and a toss up at best. They look and see a hire at the DC position and thus believe that’s the reason suddenly UNC has a gaudy record. Instant gratification right? They’re missing that UNC has out recruited us for years, their OL looks quite good (at least what I’ve seen), their QB play is significantly improved, and they’ve got a very favorable conference schedule.
I agree that 2013 was as bad as it gets, but that TOB might have eeked out a couple of conference wins that year. I also agree that firing him before it was painfully obvious just how little talent we had was the smart move. We’d have been trying to sell a total rebuild, and my gut says DD didn’t look at the personnel as closely as he might later have wished that he had. Regardless, it was only going to get worse under TOB, and it was time to make a change.
I’m behind DD because I think he’s got 5-6 years here regardless. He’s Yow’s coach in the most important sport, and she’s going to back him. Politically that’s just where it is.
I do see signs that things are headed in the right direction. The RB talent pool alone this year was incredibly impressive. We’re picking up the speed across the board. The DL looks pretty good to me. The defense tackles well. We don’t kill ourselves with penalties. Special teams outside of FG kicking has been very solid. Conditioning looks good. We clearly looked bigger and stronger than Wake and BC, which couldn’t have been said in 2013.
My biggest concern for next year is really at QB. It’s important that we find a successor.
What did Bobby Bowden always say?
First, you lose big.
Then, you lose small.
Next, you win small.
Finally, you win big.Kind of how I see it as well. Amato was great at skipping the lose big phase, starting with the lose small and then going with the win small. He could never take it to the “win big” phase.
TOB got blown out a lot. That was the thing that most bothered me about him. We lost more games in about a year by double digits than Amato lost his entire tenure. It wasn’t just that we lost, it was often how we lost.
I have always thought really good teams took care of business on the road. They came into your house and take it from you. It’s easier at home because of the home fans.
It’s part of why we were never going to break through with HWSNBN at basketball. Even when we had a good record, we were kind of a paper tiger. We were good at home, but we never won on the road, and more often than not would lose to any semi-good team on a neutral floor.
I like that we’re winning on the road. WF and BC were huge steps. If we could win at FSU, it would be huge.
Sun Belt level team #1 ranked defense in the nation? Wow.
Agreed Grey. BC has a good defense. No one has blown them out despite having a punchless offense. That’s kind of hard to do.
BC looked really good to me early. They looked like dark horse for #2 or #3 in the Atlantic. Then FSU broke their first string QB and they’ve not been the same since.
