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Crean? Yikes for Pitt. If he cannot win at IU despite all their built in advantages and the very fertile local recruiting grounds, what makes them think he will do anything at Pitt? He’s also a first class jerk (by reputation) which doesn’t seem to fit the profile they go for. That’d be a head scratcher, but admittedly Stallings was as well. They’d be wise to go for a young up and comer.
I hope Wake keeps Manning a long time. While I don’t believe Odom’s comment that NC State and Wake can’t both be good at the same time, I do believe Keatts’ job is easier as long as Manning is at Wake.
Let us not forget DY’s tweet after the Ga. Tech game. I like to think that had a part in the decision of tv Teddy
We can tell ourselves that, but we’ve filed many a league complaint over the last 20 years. It’s NC State’s passive way of submitting to the system yet saving face with the fans.
The ONLY time that I can remember where the ACC has ever done anything related to an official due to how they dealt with NC State was with the Corch/Googs ACC tourney (and the ensuing initials on sneakers). It wasn’t long before those same refs were officiating our games, and in doing so were providing statistical outliers in fouling out TJ Warren (you can look in the archives, but I posted the unusual correlation that TJW fouled out almost every time that crew officiated him, and never had more than 2 fouls the rest of the year).
Nah, Teddy crossed UNC and was given a quick hook. Simple as that. Shrugs.
As for DanD, he loves to troll NC State fans, but NC State fans also stupidly feed the troll. It started over that Smart/Oklahoma State game, and our fans coming to the defense of Gott. That first game he was pretty honest, but our fans didn’t like it. They went after him, and there’s been an ax to grind ever since. If our fans ignored him, he’d go away.
As for the comments about stupid former players, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if it isn’t related to the timing of Gott’s firing. There were a lot of rumblings associating a former player with a leak. The press is going to know about that one.
Rick: You went where I did…. Northridge really cannot find anyone better? I’ll go and be the head man just for what they will pay us for Gott’s buy out and I can almost guarantee that their program will be in better shape in 6 years than Gott will leave it. By that statement, what I mean is that I would clearly leave it healthier. It is a head scratcher.
Teddy has clearly had it coming. One can take the DA theory, but I tend to think it is a little convenient.
I find it ironic that this only happened to Valentine AFTER UNC felt like they were on the bad end of the call. The message seems clear to me. Give UNC an unfavorable whistle and you are gone.
UNC has been playing 8-5 in most conference games since I have been alive. I don’t for a second think that this is the first time the zebras are getting the carrot or the stick related to the way they officiate UNC. This is just the first time it is so public.
Also, did anyone pick up the actual words from the article? Valentine “patched it up” and “helped Barry avoid a technical.” What the?!?! If he deserves a technical, call one. To me the public admission of a make up call is as damning as the actual call.
Off topic but I don’t have the dislike of Dan D. that most State fans do. Yeah he is an arrogant troll, by a lot of his analysis is correct and is more focused on the game at hand than most of the people ESPN has calling the games. He also calls them like he sees them, with much less of the top down messaging of someone like Bilas.
State fans don’t like him because he accurately said that Gott wasn’t a good coach, and that we played soft in letting a freshman named Smart single handedly beat us. I watched that game, and he was right on both counts. Those deluding thems loves about Gott just didn’t want to hear it.
It will be interesting to see if most State fans change their tune on DD. I heard him call a State game this year and he said Keatts was an excellent coach. I took mental note because we were down in the game at the time, and were looking ragged. It was a comment made based on an actual formulated opinion, not just fluffing based on a run over the last two minutes or the old “every coach does a great job” schtick.
I’m thankful we’re in as it beats sitting at home like the last two years. The team has exceeded the expectations of most, and is playing with house money. It’d be nice to extend the season amnother year, if nothing more than for Nard and Abu, who stuck it out through some tough times.
Having said that, I don’t like the draw at all. Is there a tougher 8/9 opponent? I guess Seton Hall is probably saying that. Seeing how we’ve done after long layoffs coming off a loss, I’m going with State in a close one.
The winner gets the privilege of playing Kansas in a de facto home game. They quietly ground out a conference championship in what the computers and media thought was the toughest league (my nod went to the Big East). Our former PG target has had a career year and won’t easily be pressed. Kansas will be fresh and will hammer us on the boards. Just a bad match up, though I do genuinely believe we can beat anyone if we play our A game and hit from the perimeter (and I haven’t said that since Wood was a one man shooting shooting display).
Like many, I was sad we didn’t seize the moment. I think we kind of looked past BC (and possibly even Clemson) and didn’t play State basketball until it was too late. Yes, it was disappointing.
If we’re honest we’ve not been a great road or neutral court team this year (though we’ve been better at both than any State team for a long time around here). If I’m honest with myself, I didn’t like that match up and would have much rather played GT. I think the team would have come out more hungry.
If this preps is better for the big tournament, then so be it. The team has felt the sting of a disappointing loss where they didn’t play winning basketball. Hopefully it doesn’t happen again. One more half like the first, and the season will be over. Play like the second and we could make a deep run. Which teams does this one want to be? I kind of think Al Freeman, Sam Hunt and Nard don’t want their careers to end just yet.
Yesterday was disappointing. There’s no way to spin that. We didn’t start playing until about 25 minutes in, and it is very hard to win a game only playing at a high level for 15 minutes. For 25 minutes we were everything bad about NC State basketball this year (lack of ball movement, hero ball, poor shot selection, lack of help on defense, no rebounding, missed free throws, etc.). Then for 15 minutes, we were the good NC State team, that I honestly believe can beat anyone.
I think we’re in as a 8-12 seed. How we do really depends on which team shows up to the game, or how much of the good vs. bad NC State team shows up. That’s the reality of all middling teams though.
I think we’re going to come out strong in game 1. We’ve played well this year when having a lay off to get focused, particularly off of a loss. I hope that’s not a last 4 in game so we don’t “waste” that game. Get past game one, and anything can happen, particularly if we can put a team away early and can have fresh legs.
I think the future is bright. People are letting one game cloud their view of the season. We were predicted to end at 12th and finished at 5th. That was with a pieced together roster, and with several kids out multiple games. Rome wasn’t built in a day, but a fantastic foundation has been laid.
The officials weren’t good. It seemed like we had four players with two fouls by the ten minute mark. The offensive foul on Dorn paired with a tech really took him out of the game. I think I’d have probably been teed up myself as a coach if that happened and then in turn I felt I couldn’t get an explanation.
Tip of the cap to GT though. They had nothing to play for other than pride, had a thin roster, got down early and ground out a win. Their center played the best game I have seen him play (and likely statistically the best in his career). To me the game came down to our inability to get stops in the second half (which obviously wasn’t helped by the zebras).
The officials weren’t good. It seemed like we had four players with two fouls by the ten minute mark. The offensive foul on Dorn paired with a tech really took him out of the game. I think I’d have probably been teed up myself as a coach if that happened and then in turn I felt I couldn’t get an explanation.
Tip of the cap to GT though. They had nothing to play for other than pride, had a thin roster, got down early and ground out a win. Their center played the best game I have seen him play (and likely statistically the best in his career). To me the game came down to our inability to get stops in the second half (which obviously wasn’t helped by the zebras).
The FBI is seemingly there because there is a lot of undocumented money changing hands. The agents are possibly taking shady deductions. If they’re gifts, there’s probably not gift tax being paid. If they’re contractually binding agreements, there’s not income being reported by the receivers. That angle seems obvious, but those are all just small fish to get to the big whale.
There’s an angle though that is about the bigger NCAA for the FBI. I believe the NCAA and its member institutions are operating a lot of these things as non-profits. Not paying the kids is a part of this, and not paying them means that they also don’t have to pay them benefits (which is pretty important for a sport like football where someone can die or be paralyzed). I believe this is why the NCAA and the member institutions fight so hard against paying the players. Pay the players and they owe them benefits, they’re running a professional sports organization, and they’re not really non-profits.
I think we ALL know that the NCAA and the schools acting as non-profits is a complete sham, particularly with all the revenue flowing in. We can also probably also agree that some of the effective workers comp equivalent issues that are swept under the rug in the current system is egregiously bad. I would bet the FBI is going after that, and that’s the bigger angle.
I was one of the most optimistic preseason posters, but yesterday’s win put us over my preseason prediction. I knew Keatts could coach, but the level that this motley crew is currently playing at exceeds expectation.
I had thought before the season that FSU would be a team we would struggle with (along with UVA, Clemson and Syracuse). The big, physical teams that either wanted to take the air out of the ball or wanted to really pack it in on defense were the ones whose style of play would be hardest for us. Yesterday NC State took FSU completely out of their element. I knew it was over early when FSU was so desparate that they tried pressing. I honestly didn’t see that one coming. FSU’s only hope was the whistle, but the guys did a great job of not fouling out given how many fouls we picked up early.
The passing in the first half last night at some points was absolutely the prettiest we have seen in nearly a lifetime of watching NC State basketball. When the basketball moves with the pass, great things happen with shooting. Of course having the TechnoBowl equivalent of Bo Jackson as your point guard opens up a lot of things. Markell is our best PG since Corch and was way better for the team than DSJ.
I hope like heck that Keatts doesn’t get caught up in the scandals. After 25 years of god awful basketball coached by guys who were clearly NEVER going to achieve the program’s potential (I’d give Les a pass on this given the circumstances), we finally have a coach. We’d better believe that the N and O, ESPN, Nike and ACC are going to come after him.
I think it will likely be scopes to Gott, we will vacate wins, and many programs will be much worse. Then we’ll all reset at whatever the new world order is. A lot of coaches and administrators will turn over in the process.
I was pretty sure that was my point —> both sides use social media to distort facts and outright side.
Yep. We argree on this. Let’s help the board as a whole keep on topic.
I didn’t see the game in question, but there were posts on another site that Vitale was pumping State and Arizona together and saying that UNC and Duke shouldn’t be grouped with them. While I fully agree that they shouldn’t be together because UNC and Duke have taken cheating and bag men to a whole new level, this would not have surprised me. If this were just a Yahoo Sports report, these would clearly the talking points of ESPN, Nike, CBS and the NCAA. NC State would get lumped in with Arizona, Oklahoma State, Louisville, Auburn, USC and Miami and completely railroaded, while the blues would be protected. The best thing for NC State is the FBI’s involvement and that this is clearly so wide spread.
My point on Kapita/Pierre isn’t that this is a rare thing. Seen my earlier points about the desert wanderer. This has been going back a long, long, long, time.
My point is that NC State fans should get real. Part of what props this sham of a system up is the belief that everyone else is doing it, but my alma mater is clean. I absolutely believe there are varying degrees, and as Packi says we are likely on the cleaner side. We’re not totally clean though, Gott seemingly got his hand caught in the cookie jar (not surprising given how reckless he is in general) and there’s no way Yow didn’t know.
I think there is so much undocumented and untaxed money exchanged, so many shady business write offs, etc. that I think it is clearly the FBI’s jurisdiction. Something will happen. What exactly remains to be seen.
On this thread or another I wondered out loud how bad the younger Miller is. Then I remembered his ringing endorsement by Calipari and the assistants he hired at Indiana. He’s no choir boy.
I posted this elsewhere but will add it here:
The whole sport is a sham and has been since Sonny V. Heck it goes back further than that (UCLA) but Sonny got the shoes companies involved.
I hated the Gott hire and think he is the gift that will keep on giving for quite a while. Assistants Moxley, Early and Pierre were all known as “recruiters” which is translation for bag men. Early certainly wasn’t coaching given the lack of development by our big men. We hired Pierre and Kapita came with him. Didn’t think something was odd about that?
The only one doing any coaching on that staff was Lutz, and his recruiting was pretty weak. He got replaced by a recruiter. I said when we made that hire that we’d have been better off hiring Lutz as the head man, and I still believe that. I doubt Lutz would have ever put Gott on staff, but I think Moxley was his guy. One must remember that Lutz was fired at Charlotte and at least some part of that was missing on Beasley to K State.
Guess what? It goes further back than that. Remember Fowler’s tone deaf attempt to land Calipari? Remember how we got Archie as a player? Remember HWSNBN’s first recruiting class? Think Saint Herb just started getting wise with his choice of assistants at ASU?
Ever wonder why we weren’t more publicly vocal as a university about the UNC scandal? Ever wonder why all parties involved agreed to shift aways from all the obvious issues with benefits and instead just focus on classes? Ever wonder why we didn’t cry foul on that? It was likely because we held the moral high ground on that issue but didn’t really want benefits looked at.
No, we’re in deep. In typical NC State fashion we cannot even do that well. If there is any solace for us it is that UNC, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Arizona, etc. (where we have been losing recruits to forever) are all clearly involved too.This will get ugly. Hopefully the sport gets a collective reboot. If it weren’t so wide spread, public, and “Federal,” NC state would be staring the death penalty in the face. The FBI being involved is likely the best thing for NC State. If it were just a NCAA probe, we’d be getting hammered and UNC, Duke, Kansas getting off with nothing. At least the Feds blowing this open so publicly means the blues are outed.
The next up will be college football. There’s way more money there, and way more risk to personal safety, which means it is way dirtier. I have a feeling that sport may cease to exist as we know it sometime in the next 10-15 years.
Let’s please drop the political commentary. That nearly killed this site not too long ago. Many of our long time posters left due to that.
Social media is a blight. Let’s just agree on that and let it go, regardless of which side of the aisle we are on (or in my instance neither side, as well as no participation in social media).
On topic, Sean Miller recruited way, way too well and was too close with Calipari. I wonder about his younger brother, though the knock on him has always been that he hasn’t been a good recruiter, and didn’t capitalize on that Elite 8 run with any type of recruiting momentum.
Regardless, we have bigger fish to fry. I think Gott will be the gift that keeps on giving, though it likely goes back much further.
Chop: I agree with you regarding Gott and always have. I hated that hire almost as much as Fowler’s tone deaf attempt to hire Calipari.
I tend to think that what the FBI is really going to get people on are tax evasion and racketeering. The tax evasion will go to all the individuals who took the money and didn’t report it on their taxes. The racketeering is the seeming collusion between the agents, shoe companies, etc.. The individuals get to deal with the IRS and the racketeers go to prison or cop plea deals.
Where I think it can nail the school is if they can prove that the school employed one of the bag men, or if the school was actively involved in the collusion. That’s seemingly what they have on Pitino and why Louisville is going to get in trouble. It is uncertain to me (based on what we know now) whether they can prove that someone inside the NC State athletics department actively participated in Dennis Smith Jr. getting paid by this agency. On the outside there seems like a lot of smoke, but to prove the university’s role would take more than that spreadsheet.
I tend to think amateurism in the D1 college revenue sports is a complete joke. I think scholarships for players who are hardly literate, scholarships to attend school in exchange for play on a sports team, scholarships to do things like cheerleading, etc. are a farce as well. The schools’ mission is to educate students, not to run semi-pro sports. I’d be perfectly fine if the whole entire model came completely crashing down. In my mind, paying the kids, getting them out of classes is basically that happening, and at that point we might as well have real minor leagues (and not NCAA sports). That is definitely true for football (issue is probably worse there because there is more money), basketball and baseball.
I’m not quite sure how I feel about the Olympic sports that are non-revenue. I would argue in those though that there are seemingly less obvious other avenues for revenue for kids aged 17-22 if they are really good in those activities. Maybe college tuition and room and board is a good trade for an aspiring Olympic swimmer until they are good enough to get backing by the US Olympic association.
83: The only solace a State fan can take from this is that UNC, Duke, UVA, Louisville, Miami, Kentucky, etc. are all in it as well. There’s no way that Nike doesn’t eventually get caught up in this.
It has NEVER looked good.
– Hire the Gott man.
– Gott hires Moxley. At the time Mox was viewed as “one of the best recruiting assistants in college basketball.”
– 3 McDonalds kids sign in year 1
– Gott starts competing with Kentucky and Calipari for recruits. How could we get ANY given what they were offering?
– We sign Kirk to get DSJ. Kirk has late interest from Kentucky and almost flipped.
– We sign DSJ.
– We miss out on Bam. “Sorry NC State fans, but basketball is a business.”
– We hire a known bag man in Pierre — “one of the 20 most feared recruiters”
– Pierre brings Kapita. Lots of smoke there.
– Adidas gets in hot water. We are an Adidas school.Unfortunately, I’m afraid it might go back further than that…………
The small line up with Dorn at the four is how we have looked best this year. Dorn rebounds better than his measurables would suggest (which is the exact opposite of Abu). When we put two true big me on the floor, our spacing suffers and things big down and our press isn’t nearly as effective.
It will be interesting to see how we play next year. What we see with the small line up is what I expected out of Keatts. We’ve recruited like we’re going to play a center and a PF.
Any know how we missed on Robinson, given he was a local kid? I don’t follow recruiting that closely.
The first 6 minutes were ugly. The next 14 were pretty. The last 20 were pretty sloppy. Regardless it was a win.
Don’t look but we’re at 9. That looked like the best possible outcome before the year and now we are playing with house money. This team may win 2-3 more in the regular season.
Go Pack! Beat FSU!
Gott’s year 1 team was by far his most fundamentally sound. Every year away from Sid’s recruits was less stable the roster got (Gott). Red flags all over that one in so many ways, especially given the same statement could be made about Sid’s players from HWSNBN.
tractor: I agree that KK’s time at Hargrave has helped him massively in dealing with the current state of college basketball.
