Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
I’ve seen the team three times (on video). This is the best we’ve looked in a long, long, long time. Quick thoughts:
– Love the defense and intensity. Those are the biggest improvements schematically over last year.
– We have depth and we should use it. Rotate a lot of guys in, keep the pressure up and keep pushing the ball on offense. If we walk the ball up the court and play 60 point games, I will figure out how to freeze time and go kick Gott in the rear.
– Yurt needs to figure out the US whistle. When he does, he’ll be fine.
– Dorn impresses.
– DSJ is a pro right now. He’s the best talent to come through in a long time.
– We have size at every position. We have depth. We can pass. It’s clear we can play defense if we keep this as a focus. My only question is whether we can shoot.We’re going to spend $2M on DD next year regardless of whether he coaches here. The question is whether him coaching here moves the program forward. If not, then what should be done?
That’s why I like the Kitchings plan. That one might actually move it forward, but if not, we’re out basically the same amount of money. I doubt it can really get any worse. We’ve also “done something” which gets us one year closer to Yow retiring. It might give us a recruiting bump as Kitchings can clearly recruit. What have we got to lose?
Ply: Had he done that, Yow would have given him a multi-year extension, built a statue and proclaimed to the world he’d climbed Everest.
If 8 is a regular season number, then that ended yesterday. If 8 could include a post-season, then we’re likely 2 weeks away mathematically eliminating that (as I think we’ll beat Syracuse).
My magic number this season was the trifecta. I said before the season started that DD would be fired if he lost to ECU, lost to UNC and had a losing record. I knew he was on life support when he lost to ECU. Barring DD doing something he has not in 3.5 years here (beating some teams with a pulse), it is looking dire and I suspect UNC will revel in putting the final nail in that coffin.
I tend to have a theory about coaching. Get blown out, or blow someone out and there’s a difference in talent. The close ones (say inside a TD) are where coaching puts one over the top. Win more than 50% of those and a case can be made that one is an above average coach. Lose almost every time, and it’s pretty clear coaching is bad.
The way the team celebrated a made FG told me three things:
1) They still back one another
2) They’ve given up on the other kicker and he shouldn’t line up for a FG or PAT again this season.
3) They expect the ball to be snatched away from them Charlie Brown style.The talent is there. This team doesn’t know how to win. The coaching seemingly doesn’t either.
We may not make a move, that’s more due to budget than any other reason. I’d still go with the Kitchings plan as that seemingly is almost budget neutral.
Guys not having their head in the game is a function of coaching. Ever see a Harbaugh coached Stanford or Michigan team one out flat or unfocused?
Eventually, you are what your record says you are in sports. DD’s record basically removes all other discusssion. He’s challenging Reed as the worst in my lifetime at State. Every single year the talent level has been higher than the record he has produced.
If we’re too cash strapped to make a move or don’t really care, I can definitely understand. I don’t understand the thinking that says he’s not responsible or making excuses to defend him. It is year four. If the players suck, that’s on him (and I don’t think they do for about 75%).
Roo: Feels like your solution sticks it to the “common man” who in this instance is sort of locked in to paying because of LTR. It is economically feasible, but seemingly a path of little to no accountability for people who hired DD and then extended him. I’d suggest that would be a poor PR move and is one that still doesn’t address that Yow is a lame duck with a poor hiring track record.
The “promote Kitchings” plan is seemingly a very low cost, low risk way to “let it ride” until Yow retires. Des might succeed (he can certainly recruit, which is a key skill needed), but if not the next AD will be in place and ready to make their most important hire.
Before we hired Canada, I was warned by a buddy who really follows Wisconsin closely that we were in for a mess with him — weird play calling and locker room strife. There was a crazy situation where the OL coach was made a scapegoat 3-4 games into a season and then Canada had play calling duties either revoked or greatly limited. He got them back for one game and they looked awesome, but much because they caught the opponent off guard. In the bowl game it was much less effective.
The play calling had its moments of greatness and then some clear WTF moments as well. I liked that we were balanced and committed to the run, but I didn’t like how formation, motion and down often signaled the play. Canada also called an erratic game relative to time and situation. To be fair, he’s had issues with that at Pitt as well. Nobody’s play calling is perfect and fans always have the benefit of hindsight.
The locker room issues are starting to come out and they don’t surprise me at all. It was rumored the season before the Canada might be leaving. I’ve heard he might have been looking before we let him go. The fact that the defense was so bad last year yet we let the OC go so swiftly suggests that there were serious issues there behind the scenes.
I don’t know the NCHSAA issues that cowdog speaks. I’ve heard rumblings that Coach’s Clinics with Canada didn’t go so well. I’m sure it is more than that though.
I’m not sure how we consistently alienate high school coaches in NC with our coaches, but we seem to do so. They’re seemingly willing to overlook anything and everything with UNC.
Cowdog: Completely understand. I can read between the lines there. I don’t know if you have access to our email addresses given you are a moderator, but feel free to drop me a line sometime if you want to chat more privately.
I feel sorry for the people who bought lifetime rights. Given a captive audience, just creep those ticket prices up $20 a pop and they’ll still buy. LTRs have created a guaranteed future revenue model that most businesses would kill for.
Bill: Interesting that you see two camps. I see one — what is best for NC State. I don’t see a lot of disagreement that DD isn’t it.
I think there are a lot of questions in the situation:
– How much money do we really have?
– How much do we think Yow can hire someone good?
– Can we afford a buy out?
– Can we afford an improvement?Mike: I hear you that Kitchings is unproven and that is a risk. It was a risk for Clemson when they hired Dabo, and Clemson had a lot more “at stake” than we do. If we feel like Kitchings has “it,” we’ll use 1-2 years to find out, which we do while we ride out Yow’s tenure here. It’s better than spending 1-2 more years with DD, when we know he’s not it.
It’s also better than Yow doing a hire now. I personally think she’ll really struggle to hire an experienced candidate. She’s going to either get a newcomer, for which the big money is worth the risk alone. Either that or she’s going to get a retread, looking for a path back in, who knows how the game works. We’re not getting a Les Miles, not with her being this close to retirement, our budget, etc..
The next AD is also going to want “their person.” This is the biggest revenue sport and therefore the hire that most impacts the bottom line and their success as an AD. It’s human nature for a new manager at any position to want their people if there’s accountability and that manager needs certain key positions to perform at certain levels.
Then there’s the cost. This is a move that can be made on the cheap. We seem to be cash strapped.
gso packbacker: Thanks. I’d read that article but couldn’t remember the numbers. I didn’t think $5M was right for DD and thought it was $2.5M-$2.6M. I think we owe DD $2.2M or so to coach next year. Paying the buy out would basically be paying him for a year not to work. Hopefully he finds a job elsewhere and it offsets the buy out some as well.
Three thoughts associated with that:
1) I’d love a job where people would pay me $2.5M not to work next year. Sign me up and I can be as bad at any of those jobs as DD has been at this one.2) Those buy outs make zero sense. Buy outs in general make almost no sense. The agents must be getting paid as part of the buy out and thus are pushing so hard for these. The buy outs aren’t stopping the coaching carousel, not stopping coaches from getting fired, and aren’t doing anything with recruiting either (read some postings about how recruiting always follows the same trend around hires/fires and years).
3) Promote from within and our costs next year could almost be a wash. Yeah, we’d give the assistant a bump, but it should not be anything like those numbers. Maybe they fire an assistant or two and hire someone else, but there’s assistant churn every year. Last year we wanted Canada gone badly enough to fire him even though it was likely he was going to be gone anyways. Assistant buy outs, any relocation costs, etc. must be minor relative to the overall spending the way they’re handled.
BOTB: It may be spoken in jest, but I actually think your plan makes more sense than what we are trying now. College sports are an entertainment business. All the administration really cares about is that money keeps rolling in. Might as well make it so it’s a great product for the paying customer, even if that product isn’t the result on the field.
I’ve argued for years that NC State just doesn’t get donor and student relations. They’ve been risk averse for so long they’ve not built the next pipeline of big money (or even steady) donors. It’s going to come home to roost in an ugly way. Your plan is the type of thing that might restore order.
– Kitchings for HC: He’s put in the time, recruits very well and know what needs to be fixed. He can obviously really recruit.
– Drink stays on as OC: We don’t know much about him, don’t know how well he recruits, develops players, etc.. If he’s a good OC, and he’s being micro-managed by DD (as some suggest), then let him loose (with the guidance that he’d sure as heck better use all his RBs).If DD has a $5M buy out, Yow should be fired immediately and then sued for damages. DD doesn’t need a $5 buy out, much less a $5M.
I don’t think any coach at NC State needs a buy out. It is obvious that if the big money programs really want our coaches, that buy out isn’t going to stop them. All it does is limit our flexibility.
I’ve thought about a potential option given the issues with Yow, her contract, her hiring track record, our budget, the fact that DD isn’t going to get it done and clearly has worn out his welcome with the fans. I think even if we fire DD, Yow will be very challenged to make a good hire given the circumstances.
What would be the thoughts of firing DD today and promoting Des Kitchings as interim head coach. Everyone says that Des has “it.” If you think about the only spot on the roster where we are loaded, it’s at RB. The strength of this team is the RBs and the run game and we’re simply not using them properly. I’m guessing he’d fix that. There’s a chance he’s our version of Dabo. Note, I wouldn’t expect Clemson results (input$ are clearly different), but the scenario is similar — younger coach on staff who is a great recruiter.
If he’s not, then what’s the worst that happens? He’ll coaches 1 1/4 or so years while Yow runs out her tenure. The next AD will get to make their own selection and not be straddled with financial issues or a poor hire. We’ve only bought out DD (and whatever staff Kitchings turns over), and have probably paid a good chunk of that off by then.
Thoughts from those more in the know? It seems to make a lot of sense to me.
I thought we’d win today. Wow we laid an egg.
UNC will put the final nail in the DD coffin. He’s a dead man walking and they’ll remove all doubt. BC spoiled what a miracle hurricane might have salvaged for one more year.
I thought we’d win today. Maybe we did at a program level.
I didn’t like Canada, but Drink’s been what I feared might happen given his time at Boise. He’s pass first and in the games they lost, Boise was very unbalanced. Today is as baffling a called game as I can remember.
Daniel: Let me clarify. In the 20 years I’ve been going to or watching the Red and White scrimmages, this is the most talented and deep we have looked. Will everyone get cleared? I don’t know, but if they do and everyone stays healthy, we have the potential to be very good. We have the best PG combo that I can remember at State, a couple of guys who can score from the perimeter, a very smart center who can do a lot of things, and both Kirk and Anya look improved. Now it is up to the staff to coach them.
Chop: Touché. 😉 One can only hope we turn the defense over to Schroyer. That defense definitely works.
The question is whether the 8 is this season or next…. 😉 And Cow to his credit did say 8…
I really want DD to succeed. I just don’t think he’s going to ever be more than about 7-5 without scheduling 4 patsies in the non-conference. His in game coaching alone is worth 6-10 points a game for the other team.
