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This is probably more appropriate for it’s own off-season thread, but I have overdosed on the Mike D’Antoni Kool-Aid during the Rockets season this year. You should only shoot lay-ups, 3’s, and free throws. Two point FG’s, other than lay-ups, are horribly inefficient.
I’ve long thought that this is how I’d coach a team. A shot had better be from the bottom half of the lane or from the 3 point line. There should never bid a mid-range jumper taken. The ball should work inside out with a focus on getting to the free throw line to earn points while the clock is stopped (and foul out the opponent’s players). On defense, a high pressure approach should be used with full, 3/4 and half-court pressing. If forced to play defense in the half court, fall back to a variety of zones (leveraging many of the trapping principles of the presses).
Sound familiar? Hopefully it describes how Keatts’ teams will play.
If NC State had any pride, they’d just refuse to play UNC in basketball. Don’t show up, don’t play. Just forfeit. Prepare a statement and release it through the media. That’d do more to get the ACC and NCAA to actually do something than anything else.
I won’t be watching tonight because I couldn’t stomach a UNC coronation. I will be pulling for Gonzaga on far.
Rick: I don’t buy it. There’d have been no need to hire a search firm if that were the case. We beat the bushes and Keatts was the best candidate who would also say yes.
I’m increasingly okay with it and think that many will be pleasantly surprised. Keatts seems to connect with players, which is incredibly important for getting them to buy in.
BjD: I hear you on Gott and Lowe. I was in meltdown mode on both. I hated the TOB hire as well (was a PJ guy). This time I think it might actually work.
I’m with Packi regarding Wade. He may be wildly successful at LSU, and they have the ingredients where a guy like him may do well (local talent base, big budgets, no pressure, a less heirarchical league and a willingness to put up with some “less polished” personalities). He was the one that scared the Bejesus out of me as he looked like a cross between HWSNBN and DD. With the rumored agent connections and the fact that he fit the Yow hiring profile to a T, I had this feeling of utter dread it was him.
My response seemingly got lost in the forum’s purgatory. Maybe one of the mods can free it. 🙂
If not, I’ll summarize:
– Archie did very well at a mid-major given what a mid-major offers. We’ll see his ceiling at IU.
– Gregory inherited a well oiled machine from Purnell, had one good year and then it went downwards.
– Judging a mid-major coach for hiring should be done based on regular season performance and not whether they got a good match up or hot shooting and won 1-2 games in the tournament. John Groce is a poster child for this.
– I like Keatts and hope he does well.Grey: I’m all for supporting Keatts, but there is no need to slight Archie. He had a great run at Dayton and did about everything that one could reasonably expect. His teams improved every year. He took one to the Elite 8 and it was 30+ years since they’d done that. His 4 straight NCAA tournaments had never been done at Dayton (granted the tournament is bigger now). He won the A10 the last two years. He punched up at a clip better than almost any mid-major coach in the same period (outside of Few). He inherited a shaky program from Gregory. He had Dayton selling out and raised the value of its basketball brand significantly. What more do you really expect?
I get that all of that doesn’t guarantee success here or at IU. I think he’s a good coach, that IU made a great hire (better than Alford), and I’ll be pulling for him when he is not coaching against or recruiting against NC State.
I agree that recruiting hasn’t been a problem here. It’s part of why I don’t buy the “tough neighborhood” argument. There are enough good ones in NC for UNC and Duke to maybe get 3 between then, and the Adidas pipeline funnels some our way that UNC/Duke don’t get. This is exactly the reason why I’m not one who wants to switch over to Nike. If we’re with Nike, then we’re always 3rd fiddle in the area. If we’re with Adidas, we’re way more valuable to them. We should be able to recruit in the top 20 every year.
I don’t quite know what to think of Keatts as a tactician. I guess we’ll see. When I’ve watched them, I was personally more impressed than what I saw out of Wade and VCU. Archie and Marshall are better tacticians, but they weren’t coming. Shrugs.
Chop: Exactly. When Wake was good, they had a lot of in state kids. Lowe recruited well in NC, Virginia and Georgia. There was enough talent in year one that Gott looked like a genius.
Put the full court press on in our region and we’ll do very well. We’ll also keep some other potential thorns in the side down. Clemson has made a living coming into NC and taking guys NC State has passed on and VCU took a couple from us as well.
Did I just read that Duke can’t recruit in state?? We realize that Harry Giles and Brandon Ingram went to Duke? Just because they recruit at a higher level than us, doesn’t mean they don’t recruit in state.
I didn’t say can’t. I said WON’T. Giles and Ingram are two of maybe 5 total Duke recruits over the past 10 years from NC. I may be missing a couple, and some that sat on the bench, but they’ve not built their program out of NC kids.
UNC will pick off 1-2 NC kids a year, but they’re not living off of NC kids either. They’re recruiting from all over, and they’re getting Nike kids.
Let’s put it another way. One could build a pretty consistent top 25 team by just the talent that walks out of NC every year. It’s true in basketball, not just football. In basketball though, this talent often ends up at “lower” programs because we’ve chosen to pass. A great example of this is the VCU recruit that we’re currently after.
My point here is that basketball recruiting is much different than football recruiting. There’s plenty of room for all four of the Big Four to recruit well. We’re a premiere Adidas school and get choice of the litter for the Adidas kids, particularly ones from DC to Atlanta. We just need to lock down that area.
I actually think this is where Keatts has an inherent leg up on our other candidates. He did 10 years at Hargrave and by nature must have tons of well established contacts in this region.
Johnson’s hiring has been announced. He seemingly had a good rep at VT and should help us recruit the state of Virginia. There’s enough talent to win big if we just hit the area from DC to Atlanta hard. UNC and Duke recruit much more nationally and Duke in particular almost never takes a kid from NC. With Georgetown in turmoil and Maryland in the Big10, there’s a huge vaccuum that we’re ready to fill.
It seems to me that we tried with Archie early, but he wasn’t interested. Que sera sera. At least we tried and I’m thankful that we were out in front early and came with our calls before anyone else could. I offer him no ill will for taking IU. Sometimes it is tough to come “home” even if you want to.
I’m not at all worried about Keatts leaving. When’s the last NC State football, men’s basketball, baseball or women’s basketball coach who left for greener pastures? It’s been over 20 years. If Keatts performs, we’ll keep paying him. That’s part of why I don’t like a 6 year deal. That just makes a buy out bigger if he doesn’t perform (though somehow I kind of feel like that won’t be a problem).
chop: I’m with you. The sun rises tomorrow and we’re moving forward. I wish Archie the best in his next endeavor.
Unlike our last two hires I think that this one actually has a chance at succeeding. Gott had an okay four years and two nice tournaments and those exceeded my expectations. I never thought he was going to do anything more than implode, which he finally did. Sid was arguably the worst head coach in NBA history, had zero college experience and didn’t have a great staff with him. That wasn’t going to work from the start.
Something just feels different this time…………
I have no insider information but I suspect the search firm was there to do two things:
1) Dig up the dirt on Keatts. We couldn’t afford a third straight hire with off court issues.2) See if any of the two line candidates were interested. See if there were other two line candidates that were unknown but interested.
A firm isn’t needed to go from Archie to Keatts. We have a pretty good idea how to get in touch with those two. 😉 It also wasn’t needed to get Greg Marshall’s magic number.
Packi broke the news to me that we’d hired Keatts. He can attest that I was upset for 10 minutes because it wasn’t Archie.
Literally speechless. Sounded like he got gut punched and the wind nocked out of him. It was hilarious.
When it was announced that Matta was coming back I thought we were in really good shape with Archie — right up until IU came open. It took me by surprise and that stung because I had hoped we’d had it locked in (as some were rumoring). I thought Archie was the top line candidate who would come to this job, he’d only come here BECAUSE he was an alum and that we might have finally been proactive enough to get it done.
I wasn’t as surprised that Archie ended up at IU. I think there were a lot of NC State fans discounting BECAUSE he was an alum. They had him lower on their board than college ADs because everything at or associated with NC State must obviously be bad. In reality, Florida made a run at him and Calipari had said that Kentucky should hire him when he left (I heard that out of Cal’s mouth on a radio interview). He was also rumored at Louisville, and some other big jobs had him as their potential target. With the senior class leaving this year, it was time to get out so if it wasn’t us or Ohio State, then it was IU.
When it looked like IU might be going with Alford I thought Archie would be holding pat. When that didn’t happen, it looked like Archie. I was never impressed with Alford at Iowa and still remember that eye gouging game in the ACC/Big10 challenge. In 14 seasons at Iowa and New Mexico, Alford never made a Sweet 16. He’s made it 3 times with UCLA, but that’s also with UCLA. Alford was smart not to move, because UCLA is a better job. IU got lucky in that they ended up with a better coach as well. Archie gets a seat at the big boy table and will have enough money for life out of one signature (or maybe done 15 times in triplicate). Good for him. That’s the definition of win/win/win. The only one who lost there may have been UCLA.
For NC State, we’ll wait and see if Charlie Brown is going to actually kick the football this time. We’ve got a better chance this time than with Lowe or Gott. Gott’s initial success shows that even an above average coach can do very well given what we have to offer. Lowe proved that even a terrible coach at NC State can recruit consistently in the top 20.
I won’t be writing any revisionist history praising Sendek. He was and still is the divisive coach in my lifetime of NC State fandom and he intentionally fanned the flames. Here we are 11 years later still debating him, and thinking he may have had some part in poisoning the well for an alum who might be interested in coaching here. He will go back to HWSNBN in my book.
BJD: Good to see you posting, even if it is a brief moratorium. You are one of the reasons that I’m at this site.
You are closer to this than I am, but my take was we knew well before hand Archie’s position based on the timing. I personally believe that we knew Archie wasn’t really interested. When viewed through that lens, the timing makes perfect sense.
If Archie is asking for a change in AD, then to me it comes across as one of those requirements that you lay out when you want the other side to say no. It reads like “I’ll take your job if you pay me $5M and you fire yourself…………” Those aren’t really reasonable, good faith negotiation points. One can say though that NC State didn’t meet requirements, and NC State can get the hint that the candidate isn’t interested in coming.
I think that talking about AD’s is an excuse. The AD trying to hire you obviously must like you. If you are winning, that next AD is going to like you. The coach on a 5, 6 or 7 year deal that is paying 3-10X the salary of the AD has way more leverage than the AD. There’s no real guarantee beyond tomorrow. Bogus argument, particularly when the AD is going to have ~ 2 more years in her tenure and that coaching contract was going to be 5-7 years.
Packi broke the news to me that we’d hired Keatts. He can attest that I was upset for 10 minutes because it wasn’t Archie. Getting turned down by the girl next door that you were best friends with for years because she’s now the next head cheerleader kind of hurts. I’ll admit it.
Then I thought about my opinions prior to the hire. If there was no 2 line, or if they all turned us down, then I was happier with Keatts than Wade. I think Keatts can work, and I think he’ll bring a style of play that is exciting to watch. This is really about entertainment after all. I’m genuinely looking forward to next season and am closely watching how we assemble a staff and the late season recruiting.
I can completely understand how some are upset with the hire. I view it as 10x better than Gott or Sid. With those two, I knew we were screwed from the second we made the hire (again Packi can validate this), but with Keatts I just don’t see the same black clouds. Keatts may not work and statistically he’s more apt to be gone in 7 years than to be here, but I do see some rays of sunshine poking through in a way that hasn’t been there since “the letter.”
I also totally get it from Murphy. He’s obviously dumped a ton into NC state athletics with little real return. If State were coming to the well with me, after the last two hiring fiascos, you’d be sure I’d have to be very comfortable with that hire before agreeing to put any more good money after bad.
Ehhh… Archie’s dad didn’t really know that much. Much more telling were the quotes from Calipari, particularly given he’d defended Gott.
I thought we should have made the move last year and was quite vocal last year and last Spring. Our job was much more attractive with the Rescue Squad sitting on the bench. We let Gott remove all doubt, which makes it odd that someone would think we don’t support coaches.
Oh well, onward and upward. I wish Archie the best except against NC State.
BJD: Come on back. We miss you. Just do like I do and don’t support this nonsense in any way with your $$$. When I give, it is to the school directly or my specific department, but never to athletics. I may go to a game from time to time, but it is purely for the entertainment value and typically to catch up with old friends. Goodnight is no fool and seems to think similarly.
I was feeling pretty good about Archie until IU came open. And here we are.
The fact that he took it means he really didn’t want to be here but he didn’t love Dayton that much either. It stings.
Oh well, we move forward with the guy that did want to be here. That’s worth something. With each turn of the carousel, I’m more happy with our position and decision to get out and onto the market early.
Paki: That stinks… I don’t know why any shooter wouldn’t want to play in this system unless they don’t want to run as much as we will.
I was impressed by what UNCW did the last two years in the tournament. They pushed ACC teams that were deeper, taller and more talented to the brink before eventually running out of gas. There’s a huge delta between 4-5 2 star kids and maybe 1-2 3 star kids vs UVA’s roster where they’ve been recruiting in the top 25 for about the last 5 years.
Having said that being the big underdog also allows one to highly motivate and provides the other team with some challenges in motivation. We see this every season both in singular games early and then in tournament upsets (Mercer anyone?).
I don’t judge Keatts as much by those games as I do by the entire body of work that I saw. In the half dozen games I watched over the last two seasons, his teams looked consistently better than Wade’s VCU teams. I think it is clear that once Archie said no, these two were the front runners (though we could have gone lower).
Rick: I’m not sure we went cheap. I think we went with the best candidate that really wanted to be here and then paid him the current market price for a high major. I tend to think Illinois throwing $5m around gave candidates a lot of leverage.
I’m not sure I agree with 6 years though. I’d have gone 4. I do agree that Yow’s weakest point from what I can see as an outsider is contracts. Of course that’s just another reason why I don’t agree with the “Yow’s tough to work for” or “bad job” rhetoric.
Unrelated but I do find it interesting how quickly people are willing to spen other peoples’ money. I don’t know what the actual ROI is for different levels of success in basketball for NC State. Maybe we calculated that Marshall just wasn’t worth it?
Archie would have been a very good coach here. His 23-13 record at Dayton against the P5+Big East, the fact that he has done thing there that have NEVER been done at that program and me actually watching the games and seeing the adjustments, timely time outs, etc. showed me all I needed. He didn’t want to coach at NC State at this time, but there’s no need to run him (or Yow) down for it. Those grapes weren’t sour and I wish Archie all the best in any game not played against NC State.
I’d have never played Marshall’s game. He is a good coach but not a guarantee and the only way we’d have gotten him is if the Koch brothers decided he wasn’t worth paying any more. That’s not a great situation and is a recipe for getting played for a raise or a contract that would have been so big that there would have been a very short leash.
So, we had two realistic choices and I personally think we went with the better one. On the Wade/Keatts line, I preferred Keatts based on his track record and watching their respective teams play. Everything that has come out of Wade to LSU has me feeling like we really dodged a bullet (and I thought of him as candidate Sendek 2.DD).
It doesn’t mean that Keatts will be wildly successful. It just means (to me) that Yow did the best one could reasonably expect.
Johnson was supposedly a great (and great recruiting) assistant. He was good enough to push Greenburg out for and then was the person that could hold recruits to their commitment. Given his ties to the area, it would make a lot of sense.
I did not like Wade and was pretty vocal about it. At the same time he may well outperform our hire. There are some built in advantages at LSU that one can ride for big talent and then use in a more open/fair conference.
I will say that Wade at Clemson didn’t scare me at all. I didn’t think he’d produce Purnell level results (and Purnell is a coach I liked and would have traded for Sid in a second).
I have done quite a bit of hiring. My two most important things are some verifiable track record of success (but with an understanding that experience is typically never at the level of the job that I’m offering. The job has to offer the candidate growth.) as well as team and culture fit (We’re going to have some rough moments so I had better be able to trust you to put the mission and team ahead of yourself). For me Wade threw up red flags in both categories.
