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Cowdog: I tend to agree that it will be an entertaining game. Syracuse throws it around, plays at high tempo and gets the ball out quickly. That will stress our defense.
I tend to think this one comes down to whether one team can generate a run game, and whether one team spots points in Special Teams.
I’m very happy we won and will leave it at that. We will learn more about our team in the next two weeks than we did in Tallahassee.
On to the Cuse. They throw the ball around, so we’ll see how our secondary does. They put up a decent number of points against LSU. This is a game that we should win, but absolutely could lose if we aren’t ready to take care of business.
I actually think we played most of the 3rd and 4th quarters trying to hold a lead as opposed to trying to win. Even the last scoring drive, we were trying to run clock, and just happened to score. We were outscored (albeit by only a point) in the second half. Yeah, we got it across the line and that was great.
If your issue is whether we took the foot off the gas, I suggest that neither of us know. Only the coaches do, and they certainly wouldn’t say, one way or another.
Your issue originally was the questionable special teams, secondary play and lack of killer instinct. I contend we’ve had all three through DD’s tenure and until we fix them, we can lose to anyone. Heck, two of those cost us a game against a mediocre S. Carolina team just a few weeks ago, in a game where we doubled up yardage and first downs and won the TOP.
Maybe FSU taught us how to win. Hopefully so. Maybe with that we gained some killer instinct. I tend to doubt it. I think it comes from the top and some have it and others don’t. We shall see.
I’m still going with 8-4. FSU and S.Carolina have kind of offset one another.
Grey: I would agree that we should take the high road. I would suggest that right now you’re taking these responses a bit too personally. Those that doth protest too much suggest some sort of bias or connection to the staff.
Let’s be clear. Look at my track record. I’m neutral on DD. I publicly predicted 8-4. I said we could we’ll still hit it despite starting behind the 8 ball. I have a pretty realistic view of our program and what expectations are for our overall program’s expected results.
I say this because your comments seem based on being “right” about an upside for DD and this season. It’s great to be a believer, but one also has to be grounded too. Your responses are bordering on noise. Would you be saying the same thing if we tried to stall, only to have FSU get a late score for the win? I watched an Amato led team take a game away from a TOB coached team when TOB tried that very strategy.
I’m glad we won, but that game wasn’t perfectly played on our end. We also had the stars align. Yes, we still had to walk through the door and I’m glad we did. We haven’t many times in the past.
Maybe (and hopefully) we’ve turned the corner and will continue to do so. Time will tell and these next two weeks will tell us an awful lot. Outside of Clemson and VT (who we don’t currently have on our schedule), the ACC looks pretty weak to me. This is the year to make a move up the standings. I hope we do it.
Grey:
I’m one who would never take the foot off the gas until it was clearly out of reach. Up 35 at half? Push it to 49. Remind the players that UCLA pulled off a massive come back just a few weeks ago on TAMU.
I’m also one who doesn’t think a one possession game is safe. As you mention, it was one missed assignment that gave up a TD. Another missed assignment or missed tackle, and a 6 point lead becomes down 1. So we really want to put that game in the hands of our kickers to win it down one?
Hey, it turned out fine. It’s just not what I would have done.
Our next possession we ran the ball twice — we successfully ran the ball earlier in the quarter — and threw incomplete on 3rd down — the same shovel pass that JaySam scored on earlier.
Grey: We ran the ball 37 times at an average of 3 yards per carry. That’s enough running to keep it balanced, but hardly a strategy designed to score points. As you mention, one has to credit the opponent, and FSU’s run defense was pretty stout. Yes we had a long drive, where we got 40+ yards off the ground to go up 27-13, but up until then we’d not done much on the ground.
I contend from that point forward, we were clearly stalling and playing more not to lose than trying to win. Your opinion there might differ, but I thought we puckered up and looked tight. That bad snap? Nerves from being backed up in one’s end zone. The ensuing drive? A couple of runs, a short pass, a penalty and then a punt block. We had gut check time and got some defensive stops (one after a big return) and grounded out a much needed first down to end the game, but I didn’t think momentum was on our side.
I don’t see how you can say that is “Bad” simply because you think it can be done at some time in the future.
As for going over the top, FSU’s best offense was the deep pass, either a fade or a vertical pass. Tate had 138 yards before he went down, including a 51 yarder. I suspect he was on his way to a 200+ yard game had he stayed healthy. If that doesn’t mean that we have a weakness in the secondary, then I guess we will agree to disagree.
I’m happy we won. I had said prior to the game that I thought FSU was ripe for an upset and that we could win this one. I sincerely hope we win out. I’m not blind to the fact that we got a whole lot of breaks in that game due to injuries and penalties, but I also am glad to see is rise to the occasion and take advantage of them. I think that’s pretty balanced.
Until we fix the special teams, secondary and develop some killer instinct, we’re going to be vulnerable to anyone on our schedule. Here’s to hoping that Saturday was a step in the process of learning how to win, and gaining killer instinct. We’ll find out when we play Syracuse.
We had a great game against FSU. Packi and I were debating a bit yesterday though whether this one could be interpreted as a sign of better things to come, or whether we caught FSU ripe for an upset and will promptly regress to the program’s norm. Beating FSU was fantastic, but means NOTHING if we don’t come out and take care of business against Syracuse on Saturday. MOC beat FSU down in Tallahasse when they were GOOD, but then would lose the next week to a weak team.
It is one thing for coaches to say that Syracuse is just as important, but they have to believe it and the players do as well. Here’s to hoping we have enough Senior leadership on this team that they really do get it. If this were a young NC State team, I’d expect we’d lose Saturday.
Against FSU, a few things stood out to me…
Good:
– We looked equally matched talent wise. That speaks to our player development and S&C.
– Our QB has clearly improved. Last year he was good against weak teams, but average at best against the strong ones. The play to push the ball out of the back of the end zone may have saved the game for us.
– We have the best collective OL and DL together that I can remember at NC State. I am convinced that football is won in the lines (and with the QB). We have a great OL coach and I think that will continue to just get better. We had a great DL coach. It will be interesting to see where the DL is in a year or two.
– JaySam is a once a generation player for a school like NC State. We are getting spoiled by him.
– We kicked the ball out of the end zone on kick offs. Thank goodness.
– We made a legitimate attempt to find balance on offense. Hines surprised me in his ability to get yards against FSU. I figured we’d have to have had Gallaspy to run inside.Bad:
– Killer instinct…. We just don’t have it. I thought we took the foot off the gas too early in the fourth.
– Punt block……. ugh…
– Secondary: We made more plays this week, but I still think teams can go over the top.I think we should just go to flag football and do away with all these had injuries….
Nah bro, amassing brain damage and risking permanent physical disability for the glory of a modern entertainment vehicle is manly, or whatever.
I tend to agree with Packi on this one. I think football as many recognize it may be a dying game. There’s no way I’d let my kids play — granted they’re not the demographic that would ever play at a high level.
Great win today. I thought the team played solid fundamental football and executed a good game plan on both sides of the ball. Talent wise, I thought both teams looked very similar, which speaks to our player development and S&C. Go Pack!
tractor57: My suggestion — ignore the politics, etc.. That’s been thankfully largely cleaned up. Enjoy chatting with a handful of very, very good posters about NC State sports, which we all share an interest in.
I don’t think the drum is just “fire the coach.” One has to put the discussion in context. We clearly made a bad hire in basketball with Gott on the heels of a bad hire in Lowe. Many on the site were incredibly invested in both of those searches and this site was probably the best on the internet for coverage. I think two straight bad hires in our crown jewel really left a foul taste in peoples’ mouths, particularly as we watched both the Lowe and Gott ships predictably sink.
With Lowe, he was one of us, so it was easy to point to the AD. We all wanted Lowe to be a huge success, even though we knew from the day the hire was announced how it would end up. With Gott, the AD badly misplayed the end game, rolled out a retread with major red flags and then later de-incentivized him with a head scratching contract extension. That move screamed of an inside deal due personal relationships. I think it’s understandable that NC State’s fans are a bit wary of the administration, particularly the same administrations that sold them LTRs/PSLs and seem to miss a lot of the little customer service things on game day.
With DD, we took a gamble and most realized it. I think most really took a “wait and see” approach. Unfortunately DD put himself and his program behind the 8 ball early between calling out the fans and that 0-8. He took a step forward, but then took a step backwards. This is the year for another step forwards. I hope it happens because I want to see the program win.
I do get it though. NC State fans have been living off table scraps outside of a few good years here and there since we had Valvano and Sheridan. That’s a long time for the accomplishments in the big 2 to amount to a Gator Bowl win over a paper tiger, and 3 Sweet 16s. During that time, we bought into Fool’s Gold with football, undermining our better “platform” for success. We were so starved for anything that looked good that we got distracted and made poor strategic decisions.
The good news is that I think that all of this is about to change. I think KK was a good hire in basketball, and within 3 years we’ll be in the top 4 of the ACC. In 5 years we’ll be poised to snatch the crown as Duke, UNC, Louisville, Syracuse and Miami all transition. I have not had any real hope for basketball since V until now. I can’t wait for basketball season.
I also think we’ll see a transition in the AD’s ranks. Yow’s done a good job and the non-revenue sports are the best they’ve been since the 1980s. The Moore and KK hires look good (regardless of whether she did it or Murphy did with KK). Avent’s still chugging along (IMHO punching above the program’s weight). The next AD will clearly be tasked with the revenue sports, and probably should be the one making the decision about the direction of the football program. They may decide to double down on DD, and if so, the DD will have new meaning. They may decide to go in a different direction, but if so seemingly building off a solid base. That’s a win/win all the way around, so I think most are willing to be patient in football.
BITB is right on this one. Downtown Durham has changed drastically (for the better in my mind) over the past 10 years. Really, downtown Raleigh has as well. It’s way nicer than when I was a student.
We needed a good win and got one. The offense did to an undersized and outmatched team what they were supposed to. It was good that we got McClendon and the second team some work in the fourth because one hit to Finley could make him our starter.
Defensively, I’m not so surprised that Furman got a few big plays. That’s been how GT has looked best when outmatched where they can’t grind out drives. Our secondary is still a huge question mark.
The kicking game….. Well, if I were DD I would have done a little bit of recruiting after that game. If Furman can find a guy that can put 45 yard field goals routinely through the uprights then why can’t we?
The season starts next week. Can we go 6-3 from here on? Outside of 3 games, every one seems very winnable, and we could even potentially upset 2 more. That S. Carolina loss will sting though because they are not good.
GSO: I think we are in a similar spot with respect to football. I have zero expectations beyond mediocre. I have always said the worst thing for NC State football may have been that Chuck raised those expectations for so many. It was amazing that he could do it, and the LTR scam certainly benefitted from it, but somehow I think we were happier as a fan base before our Icarus moment. Prior to that football was always the fall distraction before the sport that really mattered at NC State (basketball).
The choice to try and chase football really caused us to take the eye of the attainable prize and really paved the way for the accceptance of underperformance in our crown jewel. Many NC State fans accepted 10 years of HWSNBN, 6 years of Lowe and 6 years of Gott because “we’re a football school now” or “we beat UNC at football.” Hogwash.
So, while I don’t love DD, think he is a terrrible in game coach and needs serious polish with the media, if he makes 7-5 and the PTB keep him aroun, then so be it. If they decide to scrape the money together to fire him, then I won’t shed any tears either. If he can’t make the definition of mediocrity for this schedule and with this team, when is he going to do it? With this schedule, there are ten “real” games. He ought to be able to go 5-5 in them. We are currently 0-1, but have a lot of football left to play. I’ll hope for the best.
92owen: Good question. I have watched NC State sports for nearly 40 years. During that time, we have had one top 10 team (thank you Rivers), a handful of top 15-25 type teams (Sheridan was the best coach we’ve had in my lifetime), and one or two good years here or there scattered in. We are (in the history of our program) a .500 program in all games. I look and see the deck stacked against us in the “inputs” and I don’t really see the financial or institutional commitment to changing that. Call me old, soft or a loser, but I think it is a fairly realistic view of our football program (not in basketball).
So, we have some choices:
– Change the inputs: The school probably isn’t changing. That would require a huge influx of private money. I sense LTRs ensure a captive audience and sell outs but have left the fan base a bit wary. I know I’m not putting my money towards this.
– Get a different coach and one that is a bit more “gimmicky”: I’m good with this and preferred PJ to TOB. I was willing to take some up and downs for some truly special years.
– Rotate coaches every 3 years until we hit on a winner. Be prepared when that winner leaves to move up (ah la Lou).Any other move is effectively holding pat. State has been unwilling to make quick moves on coaches, and we’ve not hired gimmicky coaches. Are we really going to see that cash influx? I don’t know.
So, if we’re going to be mediocre, and I see nothing suggesting we’re not, let’s at least run a tight ship. I’d much rather have that than our mediocrity (post Rivers) under Amato, or having a coach run off a once in a decade player.
As fans of NC State (if posters are indeed of that ilk), we want to see NC State’s athletics teams win. The debates certainly come on how to best do that, but in the end, we all want to see us win.
We have DD through the end of this year, regardless of what happens. I’m going to pull for him to win. Do I expect us to win the Atlantic? Nope. I expect 7-8 wins, but will be pulling for NC State even in games we lose.
Some are saying if DD doesn’t get to 8 in the regular season, he’s likely gone. I suspect he has to get to 7 and will be very interested to see how that scenario would play out if he makes 7 but not 8.
Do I ever think DD is going to win big here? Nah. Do I think he’s that good of a coach? Nah. Do I think that NC State is ever breaking through in football? Nah. Do I think he runs a program that I can be proud of? Yes.
So the question becomes what the minimal number of wins should be year in and out. I think if a NC State football coach can go 7-5 (4-4) they will be here indefinitely as long as they meet the “table stakes” pieces of program management. DD is doing program management at an acceptable level, so I suspect if he gets to 7, he’s staying.
We’re not losing to Furman, though I wouldn’t put a dime on a spread either. We just need to beat ND. There are numerous winnable games on the ACC slate — BC, Syracuse, UNC and Pitt to start with. WF is a toss up because they clearly have improved and FEU could be that elusive “punching up” victory we need.
I judge coaches on 4 criteria:
– Are the base requirements of the job — graduating players, handling the media, running a clean program, dealing with the boosters — being met. These are table stakes. Don’t do them and be gone (at least in my book).
– Beat the teams you should beat.
– Trend line on overall record.
– Ability to punch up a weight class.Granted this is related to another sport, but these were the criteria of why I liked Archie so much. And I liked him well before last year and wanted him to get the shot at trying to maximize DSJ, not Gott. Alas we were nit proactive enough.
Rivers lost, Wilson lost, Glennon lost and Brissett lost. Hmm. What is the common factor? Just saying!
To be fair, every team in FBS lost last year other than Clemson. If a loss is defined as the same thing as a loser, then everyone is a loser. The reality is a bit more nuanced than that.
Grey: I hope the OL play improves, and it is due to injury. Last year I thought the line really improved over the year. I also think we have a “real” OL coach for the first time in a long time.
On the flip side, schematically we’re effectively conceding the run. Between all the throwing and Hines in the backfield, there’s really no threat inside except maybe a quick slant or crossing pattern. I think Gallaspy needs to go in the backfield and Hines to the edge.
Any thoughts on special teams?
Chop: I think it about sums it up. I would say that QB and WR play is better up to this point, but it was good in the non-conference slate last year as well. The passing game has better be good though because we’re really not trying to find any balance. Until we do, we will struggle in short yardage situations or the red zone. Our lack of a kicking game will only make it worse.
There’s no transitive property in sports. It is how one team plans another, in the conditions of the day, on the day. NC State almost beat Clemson last year who crushed Ohio State in the playoff game. Would NC State have handily or even beaten Ohio State last year? I’m going with no. There’s about as much to be taken from that as State beating Marshall who beat Austin Peay who……..
I don’t get why people pin the D on Hux. This is seemingly a situation where the head man is clearly involved in the defense. It’s part (not all, recruiting was a big one) of why the OC was fired after the disappointing bowl game. The head man is clearly involved in setting the direction, and may even be involved in the play calling. If you hate Hux, then you seemingly hate DD. DD is seemingly a solid guy, and probably realizes that firing Hux would only be finding a scapegoat. He’d probably do it to save his own hide, but it would come with such scrutiny that he’d basically be down to his last lifeline.
Did anyone hear the post game report? There are rumblings that DD didn’t realized we’d missed a PAT…………..
Good game in that we won. If DD finds 7 more like it, he’s clearly back next year. I want State to win, so I’m happy and am doubly happy that UNC lost (though Jackson is putting up big number against us too).
Thoughts:
– Special teams are anything but special, unless it is in a short bus kind of way.
– We’re going to live and die by the pass. Fine against a good chunk of the schedule but it is going to be ugly against Clemson or FSU. I miss balance on offense.
– Secondary……. is not good.
– For once we came out and won the second half!
– Gallaspy need to be starting in the backfield with JSam and Hines needs to be in the slot for quick hitters.
– I wish we’d ditch the 4-2-5. Heck, this year we might be better off in a 5-2.Bass: I sat in about the second or third row in the end zone for TOB’s first game. The first play from scrimmage against UCF we were clearly lined up wrong on defense. UCF did either a little motion or a jet sweep play and the RB took it to the house for 70+ yards running right at me. We proceeded to get absolutely blasted that game.
I never liked the TOB hire, but my fanny was in the seat hoping for the best. We got our tails handed to us that day. Only 2 times during Chuck’s entire tenure were we beaten as badly and both times were against top 5 teams — FSU and Miami. This was one of the “other” Florida schools. And yet there I was watching my nightmare unfold of a Mike Archer coached defense paired with an aenemic offense. But hey, we had discipline and had kicked a bunch of kids off the team! Talk about the wind out of the sails.
I agree with Mac. This game came down to spotting the other team 10 points in special teams and an atrocious half time/3rd quarter. Translation, special teams and in game coaching. Fairly standard stuff.
Unrelated but someone mentioned greywolf in the thread. I sincerely hope he is okay. On another site we lost one of my favorite posters, and not just because they quit the site. Sad, sad day and I still “miss” him.
Mac: I hear what you are saying. I’ve been off the DD wagon since year one (have to really suck at NC State not to win at least one game in the ACC given we get Wake, Bc, Syracuse and UNC every year). I’m still hopeful on my preseason prediction. ND hasn’t been the ND of my youth in a long time, and the FSU game seemingly just got a lot easier. UNC looks beatable and BC seems to have regressed, though who knows that Wake and Syracuse really have.
But the team once again placed themselves in an unphill fight. I thought DD was a dead man walking after that ECU loss and would require beating UNC to still be coaching here. I still think he’d have been gone had he lost to UNC but he pulled a rabbit out of his hat.
Watched the game on tape delay, which was good. I can’t see allocating 3.5 hours of prime Saturday time to watch live, much less pay money to see a DD coached team in person. If that makes me a bad fan, then so be it.
– Pros: 2:1 in plays ran and total offense. Good rushing defense. Team didn’t quit. Outside of their #1 and QB play, I felt we were better at every position (we never saw their FG kicker).
– Cons: Special teams are anything but special and that’s consistent under DD. Just can’t spot a team 10 points. Pretty untimely penalties, drops and turnovers. Wasn’t just the what but the how. Anyone else notice the head sets went back on the 3rd quarter? Pair that with some halftime adjustments and DD just got out coached by Will Muschamp. Let that sink in…..I thought 8-4 (5-3). We can still make that. To do so means that ND just became a must win game. No pressure there. Just like we did last year, we put ourselves in a hole early. The season isn’t over but it is an uphill climb.
