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The implication is the refs are either biased against NC State men’s basketball, or they are biased for…somebody.
My questions are, if it is truly a bias for a subset of teams, why can other teams make significant strides when we cannot? I keep forgetting I can’t use personal pronouns when referencing the basketball team. Sorry. And why do the remaining teams not raise hell?Like I said earlier, the head of the ACC officials has stated they study tendencies and those tendencies show that UNC does not foul much. How is that not a bias?
As to losing your mind, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt as I assumed someone in thier right mind would not call someone they are having a discussion with irrational and inflamatory but if I am wrong I apologize.
^What about the other patterns? As in how we play? What’s to be made of those? Nada? I’ve been called “intellectually dishonest” because I consider what our players and coaches might improve upon–not perfect, mind you–so that they might sharpen their execution, and change an outcome by becoming less dependent on “perfect” refereeing. Or is it fair, or consistent refereeing that we’re after? Or is there a difference?
I have said several times we blew some opportunitities. That does not mean the refs did not impact the game nor does it mean we are “whining” when we call them out on it.
I readily admit that looking at raw numbers, it looks kinda questionable. But if I know that, Coach Gottfried, Debbie Yow, John Clougherty, John Swofford et. al. have to know that as well.
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So if you “readily admit the numbers look questionable” why do you lose your mind when anyone says the refs suck?
Thanks for proving my point
You seriously can’t see past the end of your own nose can you?
You’re THE most inflammatory, irrational poster on this board, which is saying something.
You toss around how blind other fans are, and how absurd their arguments are, meanwhile, never addressing the substance of what has been said.
Then when you get called out, you start deleting posts. I fully anticipate this one being deleted.
Please, show me where I called you dumb. Please. Pretty please?
Maybe you shouldn’t get so bent out of shape when somebody has the audacity to have an opinion different from yours.
LOL
I have threatened to but never deleted one of your posts. Your post may get deleted but not by me.
But I will tell you this, if you make a post like that to someone else I will delete it because there is no reason to call others names.Well when one team can wrap up a player and get the ball from the “turnover” it is no wonder they win.
Would you explain it to me like I’m five? What is your contention?
That the refs are biased against us personally?
Are they biased against any team not Carolina and Duke?
Or is your position they are biased for Carolina and Duke?
Edit: I know you have problems with pronouns so to clear up any confusion, “us” means the team, aka NC State men’s basketball.
It is NOT my contention. It was a by the head of the ACC refs himself.
You said you are an alumnus? I have to admit I figured you were still at State given your seeming inability to argue without calling someone stupid.
Rick, I would like to officially welcome you to my world of debating on SFN. Maybe it’s the other way around but “peas and carrots” and all that.
I coach 1 and 2 grade girls that can understand subtelty better than many on this board.
Nobody thinks the refs shouldn’t be better. Nobody. At all. Ever.
But teams find ways to win under the conditions of college basketball at the moment. Just not us.
Well when one team can wrap up a player and get the ball from the “turnover” it is no wonder they win.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>pakfanistan wrote:</div>
We can’t control the refs, we can only control how we play, so if we want to have any success, our best bet is to get better as a team.You and I cannot control the team so we should not bother about discussing them. That is the logical extension of your absurd argument. If you want to argue the refs called a good game well at least that is a logically consistent argument. If you want to argue “the refs sucked but we can’t do anything about it so I will criticize the coach/team” then you are being intellectually inconsistent.
Please try not to be so dense. Neither of those things is what I was saying.
“We” == “the team”
[The team] can’t control the refs, [the team] can only control how [they] play, so if [the team] want to have any success, [their] best bet is to get better as a team.
I did not realize you were part of the team. I thought we as fans were discussing the game. My bad.
Drwuffette,
I agree with what you say but it is virtually impossible to prove.
I would have thought stats would at least make people willing to discuss it. Even a picture or video.But, alas, they seem firmly entrenched in the “anyone who says the refs sucked is a whiner” mind set.
Of course, they then go on to say the coach or players sucked. But that is deemed proper and acceptable.We can’t control the refs, we can only control how we play, so if we want to have any success, our best bet is to get better as a team.
You and I cannot control the team so we should not bother about discussing them. That is the logical extension of your absurd argument. If you want to argue the refs called a good game well at least that is a logically consistent argument. If you want to argue “the refs sucked but we can’t do anything about it so I will criticize the coach/team” then you are being intellectually inconsistent.
I know that many on this site love Gott and think he’s the best we’ve had in a long time, but his in-game management has been questionable to me at several important times this year. I know Lewis shouldn’t have called the last one at the end of the game, but I’m more concerned with the fact that we left the game with one from overtime. 3 opportunities I expected a coach with a timeout at the end of overtime to use his timeout:
1 – before they inbound the ball to Warren before he was mugged and the ball went out of bounds (granted, you would rather have the timeout for the opportunities 2 or 3 following).
2 – once he saw Warrent get trapped in the corner (which we should have learned from Cuse to not throw the ball into a corner with a team that wants to trap at the end of the game). Coaches can yell for timeouts from the bench. Gotta be ready for that.
3 – after TJ makes the second free throw at the end of overtime before Paige’s last drive. I don’t know how many coaches I’ve watched (Roy and K do it all of the time) take a timeout after a made basket at a crucial time to set up the defense. I don’t know how you don’t call it here at the very least having watched Carolina go down the court in a heartbeat and score after a made basket several times this game already.I agree that some calls really hurt us and it feels like we were playing 5 on 7-8. But win or lose, I would like to see some higher BBIQ like
– not throwing the ball into the corner again,
– seeing at least ONE person run to a guy who has picked up his dribble and is in trouble (Lewis at the end of the game when he called the TO and Warren at the end…isn’t this something you learn when you are first playing basketball, make yourself available to a guy in trouble),
– and the timeout being used more appropriately at the end of the game (didn’t have one at the end of Cuse and had one here and didn’t use it)
– running an inbounds play. Really I’ll take any movement at this point.Overall, pleased at the intensity we played with and the fact that the team didn’t look intimidated and really took it to them at the beginning of both halves. Would have like to see Lewis and Barber in together some as Lewis was running the offense better and actually doing okay on defense. But Turner could not keep up with Paige and a quick guard like Barber would have been perfect for that role.
Still hurts, but provided some much needed entertainment last night.
IMO this is a good post.
We blew it at the end but, again, we should not have been in that situation to begin with.Steve Logan who is not known for being a big State fan tweeted that the refs “know who is supposed to win”.
So, yeah, its just me who sees this bias [rolling eyes]
So one football guy is overstepping his bounds by expressing his opinion on basketball, but Steve Logan is an authority….
I think I understand.
His opinion is every bit as valid as yours and I would have thought more than mine given how much you hate my opinions. But it seems you just ignore anyone who disagrees with you.
Joe Giglio tweeted a comment about th end of game call against TJ not being here.
Jeff Goodman tweets “I thought there were some bad calls down the stretch”
But its just us “whiney” State fans that see it.
Steve Logan who is not known for being a big State fan tweeted that the refs “know who is supposed to win”.
So, yeah, its just me who sees this bias [rolling eyes]
So let me see if I understand the new rules for State basketball. Make 100 percent of you free throws. Make all jump shots even if fouled on your arm. Make pass to players even with a macadoo on your arm. Do all that and we will let you win a game.
Yup
If we make a single mistake then questioning the refs is considered “whininig”No one seems to comment on a few things
1) I have seen maybe three charges all year but there were two against us in this game.
2) The way the game was called once again changed after the half. The game was played well in teh first half so no need to change it.
3) Our best player on the bench with foul trouble on three questionable calls. Their best player does not get a single foul called on him.
4) We again put our best player in a position to win the game and the refs do not allow him to.I used to watch any college basketball game I could find. This year I have not watched any teams but State and even those I miss without giving it a second thought.
I actually took a nap during the VT game.
The head of the ACC officiating said UNC has a tendency not to foul and this was simply his employees proving him correct.
All the ref-conspiracy-bs goes out the window if we just do one thing….
Have a Ten point lead with four minutes to play every night…
And learn how to handle that…Apparently that is the only way for us to have a chance against the chosen schools.
College basketball is a joke.Hey..Ricky. Did Gowolves in his most excellant personal post, tell you that your a one trick pony?
Oops. Called you a name there, didn’t I?
F.ck me Freddie for a pass away from a trap.
Gowolves, you’ve managed to do what I could not. Your post survived.
Wah wah,
Somebody dares to disagree with the great cowdog. Let me guess, you are going to threaten to kick my rear again.
I have never deleted a single one of your posts so stop whining and get back to servicing the refs.Th is gone.
Basketball does not to be able to get past the entropy of ‘the best player/team does the right thing’.
This was the first basketball game I watched since Syracuse. It just reinforced my opinions.
Why bother trying to be good when it is ordained that some teams will be and will not be
There is no such thing as a “culture” of winning or losing. TJ and company carry no baggage from years past. What they do endure is a legacy of unfair officiating. There is no conspiracy. The premium teams always get the calls in every league and on every level. MJ’s most famous poster was a shot following a push-off foul. Human nature is too flawed to make those tough calls against brand names.
Clemson and Purnell were screwed so many times against UNC I still feel extreme empathy to this day.
Even if we win this game, next year and the year after that the chips are stacked. We still will continue to lose more close games than we win…and of course the subtleties of officiating…only takes 1 bad call in any of the 40 minutes to turn the tide. So sure the path of least resistance for the human mind is to accept mainstream story-lines such as winning legacy or whatever intangible “plug” we use to fill in the residuals we can’t explain in our qualitative models of life.
The head of officiating is on record saying unc doors not foul. Would you publicly prove you’re boss wrong?
It is what it is.
I was furious after Syracuse but apathy is setting in.
At least duke unc will be on national tv, amiright?
The zebras did about as much as they could to keep us in this one. How anybody can complain about officiating is beyond me.
Either you or cow dog. It is so predictable.
Whatever. You win. The refs are awesome and State sucks.
That seems to be what you want.If anyone bothers to go look I predicted this exact circumstance down to several postErs getting on their knees to worship the refs.
College basketball is fatally broken. The game is no longer decided solely by they players. I honestly thought the ‘New rules’ would help fix it but it does not matter.
Rick,
I can see when refs contribute to us potentially losing a game but this is not that one. Please try to understand that every game lost is not because of the refs. Please tell me how you got the position here as a key master because for the life of me you can’t or refuse to see that the players do have an impact on the game. Way more than the coach. I guess it’s because of your expert IT skills.
Every author has their own opinions.
I have always loved the pack but my passion is dying a slow and painful death. Football is hopeless right now and basketball is not worth watching.
If you cannot see the impact refs have on a game then we will just have to agree to disagree. Most adults can do that and be civil. I think we can Too.As mad as we all are, just think about how amazing we will be next if TJ stays. That would be pretty killer. Our freshmen have really improved. Anya is going to be a beast after an offseason of conditioning.
Just like Leslie and Brown were going to dominate.
Not going to happen.
