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Post of the thread right here.
Seconded.
Transitive hopes and dreams aside, the game is really about matchups. Round one in Raleigh, UNC withstood a rally to win. Paige had his usual good game, but what I recall is Tokoto’s defense against Lacey, with the resultant 5-19 performance. Despite what I’d like to think, Roy is not stupid. It worked last time, so I expect to see it again. Will we have an answer?
UNX’s strength is inside – when they play in the paint, they win. They’re good rebounders. Will our shot blockers give up crucial ORB’s while glory-seeking ill-timed blocked shots? Or will we alter the shots, body up, and get the damned ball?
It will be an incredibly hostile environment, fully charged. It’s not an accident that Roy called out the fans ahead of this game. Expect the place to be rocking (or, at least, what passes as “rocking” for them). It will take the best showing of the season to have a chance.
BJD95 said: “We will know if we’ve grown up or if we are peaking by how we play against VPI…”
I agree. For the most part, the team has gotten motivated for the big games, only to tender a….less than optimal effort against teams they should dominate. I have zero idea what to expect from this game. I’d like to think we’ll build on the huge victory and that the “growing up” and “lessons learned” will show benefit. But I hoped for that after the Duke game, too.
The Duke and Louisville games showed what this team can do. IMO, Saturday’s game is a much better bellwether for the remainder of the season. For the rest of the year, there are no days off.
Jigs: Great work. I understand these efficiency metrics better after reading this, despite multiple attempts in the past. Fantastic descriptions. Seriously, thanks. Looking forward to the other installments.
VaWolf82 said: “The 1983 team was not a Cinderella under any meaningful definition of the term. The 1983 team was a very good, experienced team that lost their leading scorer for 10 games…and then got him back to play some truly impressive basketball (while getting lucky when a number of opponents choked at the free-throw line).”
That’s my recollection as well, along with a fairly good game coach. Although I should mention that my memories are necessarily filtered through a considerable alcohol haze that unfortunately surrounded me for most of that freshman spring semester…
^Hey pak, I snorted when I first saw the picture, especially in light of the 2008 reference. Then I literally LOL’d when I saw “second printing”. Don’t know if Mr. Zuccaro wrote the dark horse article, but he and the author definitely went to the same school….
Thanks, a good laugh restores the soul.
Just when I think I’ve seen everything, I find myself with my jaw on the floor again. They really are unbelievable. Thanks for sharing this.
Thanks colapack for the time reference.
I’ve gone through the replay on WatchESPN several times now, and I believe that the right call was made on the floor, i.e., no call. Contact was incidental. Martin did lower his arm, but at realtime speed, that’s just self-preservation reflex. You can see his whole body trying to pull away from Nolte, while Nolte throws his arms out and forward in classic “flop” mode.
At the end of the day, it’s a great play by Nolte, albeit with a part of the rules that I despise. Given our history with bad calls, I can’t believe our opponents don’t do this crap more often. I can’t believe the officials fell for it, especially with the video right in front of them.
Both fouls on Brogden were legit, and State had momentum (previous play was steal and dunk), cutting the once 7-point lead to 1. Bennett used the time wasted by the officials to draw up the next play (which he wouldn’t have gotten unless he called a TO). Critical, critical call that completely changed the game momentum.
Having said that, there were other opportunities for State to win the game, and some poor execution also cost some opportunities. But in the end, in a game like this, a single call can make a big difference, and it did. No, it didn’t single-handedly cost the game, but it’s silly to say it didn’t affect the game. We continue to see these controversial decisions go the other way. Put another way, there were opportunities for the State players to not screw up their chance, and at least one unnecessary opportunity for the official to not screw up the chance.
When was the last time there was a critical and controversial call or non-call in the last 10 min of a close game that benefitted State?
^I admire (and secretly applaud) the enthusiasm. And this from someone old enough to have experienced some of those “we’ve done it before” moments first hand.
Some interesting comments on this thread. I do agree that this group has talent, and that, in most cases, I can see individual improvements through the year. What I don’t see a great deal of, other than a few magical moments during the Duke game and for a brief while in the ND game, are large-scale improvements AS A TEAM. I also agree that if Gott can keep this group in Raleigh, many of this year’s “close but no cigar” moments will fall differently.
We’ve played a lot of very good teams close. I’m one who preaches about the difference between expectations and hopes. So maybe my expectations were out of sync this year, but still the overall results feel like disappointment, even to an affirmed optimist.
And on that call, I don’t get Gott’s passivity. I understand that in those situations, you’re still in a position to win the game – a technical foul or two on the bench, with the ensuing free throw attempts, wouldn’t help things, especially against a team like UVa. BUT, given the WF fiasco, and our general inability to get anything called our way for the past few years, that would have been my breaking point. I’m a firm believer in calmness and proper channels, but I would have GOTTen myself tossed.
Don’t know if he’s on a leash, or if, as Grey suggests, he’s distracted by something, or if that kind of display is simply not in his DNA. Or something else.
I stick with our coaches MUCH longer than most, but this bothered me.
So last year, the were picked highly preseason because of the “strong finish the previous year” (against the weakest part of the schedule). They lost the last two games by a combined 75-28, so that’s not it….
I swear somebody, somewhere is getting PAID to do this. It happens every damned year, and for absolutely NO valid reason. Yet, it keeps their name in the mix, and likely has a very small, but tangible impact on young mens’ impressions. And the fact that they fail or disappoint miserably every, single time never really gets called out, does it?
Maybe CD is right, and these writers are just epic trolling.
Can somebody give me the rough timeframe within the game when the flagrant was called? I see multiple interpretations in the comments, and I’d like to see it myself, but I damned sure don’t want to watch the whole thing.
Thanks in advance.
Nice writeup, really drives home why this season is so frustrating for me as a fan. There’s no clear target or quick fix. Every time the team loses, there’s a breakdown of some kind, but never with consistency to say “Hey, there’s the problem that needs to be fixed.” As an engineer, I want to fix things. Drives me insane when the data is indeterminate. It’s a wonder I can watch sports at all these days…
It’s just another example of the deflection playbook that characterizes almost everything at the cesspool. This was planned and choreographed. Fedora stands up and shouts “everybody’s being mean to me, waaaah, waaah.” This is nothing more than his simplified version of “Look! Look over here!” while pulling this other crap. Gives the media a tasty little sound bite, then hopes they’ll ignore the figurative crapping all over the recruits.
The reason they keep going back to this playbook is because it works.
Until somebody has the stones to hold them accountable, expect it every time.
Just watched the GT game on replay. Have to say, looked like Gott was working his tail off during the game. I like feisty Gott, loved seeing him in some faces when the team was obviously deviating from the plan.
I remember some comments after the ND game that good teams don’t blow 18 pt leads under any circumstances, and, more specifically, that such incompetence is entirely attributable to the coach. On that basis, I’m waiting anxiously for UNC to fire their HOF coach in the wake of the Louisville game.
Rick: agree on the youth excuse. CBB is different than it was even 10 years ago, in this regard and others.
General re: ND game
Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t understand the binary juxtaposition of saying “we blew the lead, it’s what we do” and “the refs sucked”. Here’s maybe a different take:First of all, I will posit that with about 4-5 min to go in the first half, and throughout the second half, the officials abruptly changed the tenor of the game – for details, see several wufpup76 posts above. If you disagree with the previous statement, you can stop reading. When that kind of change happens, it tends to have a pronounced psychological impact.
Q) Why didn’t we keep penetrating and feeding the ball low like the first half?
A) Because ND changed their defense out of the half to clog these passing lanes and take that option away.Q) Why did we play tentative?
A) Because players were afraid of whistles.Q) Why did we let an 18-point lead evaporate?
A) Hint: it’s not because we’re NC State and that’s what we do. See above. It’s because the combination of tight whistles on one end and no-calls on the other, combined with ND’s defensive adjustment, took away what was working so well and left us with WAY fewer optionsQ) Why didn’t we make the plays to win the game.
A) We DID. This is the one that always kills me from the “stop blaming the officials crowd”. We made enough plays to win the game. We didn’t make enough plays to overcome the combination of a talented opponent and inconsistent officiating.There doesn’t have to be a conspiracy of any kind for there to be bad officiating. For me, “bad” means inconsistent. Call the game however you like, but be consistent on both ends. The crew for the ND game was just BAD.
BTW: None of this applies, IMO, to the Miami game. We should have won that one and didn’t – let it get away. That’s on the players and, to a lesser degree, the staff.
But I will argue ’til I drop that the staff and team did a fantastic job against ND, just not quite enough to overcome the inconsistencies.
Two horrible calls in a row. three foul shots on the 2pt shot, followed by un fathomable foul call on Anya. Can’t win if not allowed to play.
I hate this crap.
Stripes helped ND, but State did not play well the last 2.5 min. First 2 min out of the half will set tone for game. Feels like a nail-biter finish coming.
Agree with Beej…on paper, this is one we should win. Hoping the guys show up with A effort tonight. Even with favorable matchups, top ten teams require effort and focus.
I’m setting my number at $1.485 million ($990/hr X 1500 hours). Takers?
I’ll take the over on that. This guy is bit time – Wainstein aspires to be this guy. There’s some serious sh…stuff afloat for him to be entering the fray. We may never know, but I’ll bet your figure is 10% of what they’ll spend on this guy.
Really tough loss to a really experienced team. Good time to lose the “we had the game in hand and gave it away”. If the team is able to learn from it, take something away from it in terms of focus, effort and composure, then it’ll serve us later. Not denying the tough loss in any way, just not panicking about it.
The days of running roughshod over the non-conf schedule are done. For almost everyone.
As ‘foose has pointed out before, the game of college football often comes down to managing psychologies of teen and barely post-teen boys. With apologies to coach Phillips, it certainly helps when your’n have more talent than their’n, but the emotional part of the equation is why unlikely upsets happen.
I was impressed with Doeren’s preparation of the team last week, and the results, but I was similarly impressed against Clemson last year in Raleigh. In my mind, the jury is still out on sustainability. But I like what I’ve seen this year so far.
As I stated on the other thread, my goal for this game is to emerge with a hard fought game, losing (if we do!) by 2 td’s or less, and no significant injuries. If that happens, I’ll be very excited next week when the real season begins.
VaWolf82 said:
But in the bigger picture, I agree that you need an attacking defense. Whether or not you can successfully attack with our current personnel is a completely different issue.
Agree completely with this. The bolded part is the key. I don’t know enough about Huxtable to know, but I’d like to: in previous jobs, when he had the personnel, was he aggressive, attacking? That’s what I want to see. But for all I know, Hux would love to do that too, he just knows the personnel better and believes it would be a disaster.
AlphaWolf said:
They are guilty of being immature and irresponsible. Nothing more, and nothing less.
This is all that needs to be said. Compared to what is making headlines at other schools, this is banal stuff. I appreciate that Coach D took action, and I believe the punishment fits the crime. Count me among the population VERY, VERY grateful that I was a dumba$$ teen before the age of smart phones.
Late to the party, so likely just singing to the walls…
Bill, I’m going to say that there are people who voted for all of them – 1,2,3,4. But I think between 3 and 4, you’ve captured the essence of this particular election.
I have a hard-time reading any kind of repudiation or mandate into elections in general, and especially mid-terms. When I look at recent trends (not just the single election) I see an electorate that is swinging wildly from one side to the other, every two years, like clockwork. As BJ said, lather, rinse, repeat. Almost as if the electorate is really fed up, but has no idea what to do within the constraints of our system.
I know you specifically didn’t ask for this, but here goes anyway. I vote issues and candidates, regardless of party affiliation. I would love to be proven wrong, but I don’t think many people do that anymore. And while I think that’s sad, maybe it’s not. Maybe I’m obsolete in my thinking. Would love to hear other perspective on this. Just as an example, I really despise a lot of the things that Obama has done, but I really like some other things he has done. Six years ago, I said exactly the same thing about Bush. Same thing for Hagan, same thing for Tillis.
Just my opinion that the majority of voters are WAY more black and white, cut and dry, zero or one than we used to be. As a thought experiment, let’s say you’re a staunch Republican. Try to name one good thing that Obama has done. If you’re a Democrat, try to name one good thing that Bush did. Both presidents worked for a lot of things over the course of their tenure. If you can’t find something good, you may not be objective.
IMO the past 15 years our elected officials have made a mockery of the government that was intended for us – BOTH parties. I’m a firm believer that our two-party system is limiting our options and is the single most important driving force behind today’s corruption, intolerance, and gridlock. But I don’t know what to do about it so, in the end, I guess I’m just one of the whiners I otherwise despise.
