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Yeah Mr. DOG,
NW, yes! Manattan, No!
Calling that tomato based Manhattan stuff “Chowder” is like putting ketchup on beef and calling it Barbeque.
I worked for Columbia Record Distributers for 6 months in Kenmore Square — the Fenway Park transit stop. I only saw one game at Fenway but saw a lot of “games” at The Number 3 Lounge across form the commons. It was after my time but one of the Bruins bought it and gave the girls from the Playboy Club down the street free drinks after work. Don’t know how he stayed in business “eating up the profits.”
Knock, knock.
Who’s there?
Boston Strangler.
Hey Alice, it’s for you.Next day
Knock, knock.
Who’s there?
Boston Strangler.
I’ve already given.Mauled at ND, losing to Clempson on mistakes/coaching so this one should be of interest.
Cut the excuses, Mac. We lost to a better team.
Dabo said we intentionally tried to hurt a player
Was that when a Clemson player stuck his finger in a dark place and our guy twisted and tried to break his finger off?
Sorry I have to ask…CTC?
Chuck the Chest (Amato)
Who cares how fast he is, we only care how infrequently he draws up blitz packages.
We only care? We? You got a mouse in your pocket?
Perhaps you could explain how blitzing more or better or whatever, would have stopped the Clemson QB from beating our contain to the corner and into the end zone or to keep drives alive. There are many areas for improvement such as special team kick and punt coverage, but Doeren more frequently drawing up blitz packages ain’t one of them.
Of course when you lose one excuse or reason is as good as another.
Dave isn’t on the field silly!!! Who cares how fast he is, we only care how infrequently he draws up blitz packages. You’re silly Grey
I’m worse than silly but even I know that Doeren doesn’t “draw up blitz packages.” Doeren is responsible for it all but that doesn’t mean he is calling the game or making personnel decisions. He does hold the coaches to account for the game decisions.
Sure he has meetings with Hux where they discuss defensive concepts, the direction he wants the defense to go and accounting for the play of the game. He does the same with Drinkwitz. But as far as the game goes, he doesn’t “draw up plays” or call either offense or defense. Defensively that’s between Hux in the coaches’ box and Barlow, Assistant Head Coach for Defense, on the side lines. On the other side of the ball it’s Drink in the box and Kitchings, Assistant Head Coach for Offense, on the sidelines.
No doubt when things are not going well, Doeren asks questions, makes suggestion, etc., but he won’t micro-manage as long as he wants the coaches to work with him. Ask CTC how micro-managing works.
Dave boring ass Huxetable has to be to blame,
Yeah. If Dave boring ass Huxetable was a little faster, we could’ve stopped those keepers to the edge.
Anybody checked in on greywolf? Haven’t heard from him since the ND beat down. Can somebody make sure he’s not jumping off any bridges or anything?
Not much to say. I did my talking before the season. I’m a little concerned about the injuries to the D-line.
IMO Both ND coordinators did an excellent job of using what they had — and they had a bunch of 4 and 5-star athletes at their disposal.
FSU getting rolled by BC…. looks like 3 ranked teams ahead in State’s schedule. Can’t wait for KO!
If we hadn’t been so busy whining about how we “crapped the bed” vs BC last year, we could have seen this coming.
AT’s opinion of them not withstanding
What’s my opinion of “them”? And who is “them”? Please don’t go dragging my name into a discussion I’m not a a part of.
That said let’s wait a couple of weeks here to get the results of playing against the “big boys” before everyone starts slurping each other off about the playoffs and worrying that Dave heads off to the NFL to replace Belichik.
And news flash: If we make the playoffs, or even come close to sniffing the playoffs, history would have us believe Dave is “peacing out”. Your own eccentric personal loyalty, dorton arena, statues coming down, marital troubles, etc, ain’t gonna be changing that.
Whatever…
Next years record will not tell us one thing about our football program but next year’s record will tell us everything about next year’s team. Failure over time however is a clear indicator that something is amiss in the football program. Astute observers of football know the difference between the team and the program.
Coordinators can make a huge difference in the team. ND changed both coordinators since 2016 and you can see the results on the field and in their W/L record but ND has made few if any changes in their football program. In addition to Staff that coaches the team, football programs consists of a wide range of support programs such as Strength staff, Recruiting staff, Operations, Sports medicine/Nutrition and Academics. ND made no changes in their football program — at least none that they publicized that I’m aware of.
There’s a business adage that goes something like this: If you are doing things the same way you were 5 years ago, you are doing it wrong. Maybe not wrong but in an inefficient and dated way. This could easily apply football teams. Sure, some HS are still successful running the Single Wing or Split-T or whatever. New offences are successful and everybody wants their team to the latest flavor. Or bring in that coach to guarantee success.
Meanwhile defenses are catching up to those hot offenses.
If you are operating your football program the same way you were 5 years ago, you ac]re doing it wrong. Technology changes rapidly. By the time you get the technology bought and installed, it is out of date. Aspects of a football program are the same way. The HC operating as the CEO of your football program must stay on top of all aspects of the program.
State fairly recently fired someone on their recruiting staff. He wasn’t getting the material sent out recruits were requesting. Our recruiting took a hit during that period. Meanwhile our video technology has been installed and is state of the art. It will probably be good for about 5 years.
We are being contacted by recruits who wouldn’t consider visiting earlier asking about visits. Do you think those ONE with Wolfpack Football Episodes are making a difference?
Good ones come, good ones go and good leaders know how to find ‘em.
Everybody knows where to find them — the AFCA national convention. The good leaders have a list of coaches who want to coach with them for various reasons.
I know you don’t want to hear this but the culture we have in our program now attracts good coaches. I know you think it’s winning but it’s not. AT’s opinion of them not withstanding, we have been accumulating good coaches for the 5 years Doeren has been here.
We have a good mix of veteran coaches and younger coaches — on both sides of the ball.
By the way the AFCA national convention is going to be Sunday thru Wednesday in Charlotte starting January 9th, 2018. The AFCA national convention is in its 95th year. I wondered how Chuck could know all those great coaches he hired and then ran off. 🙁
I do think the assistant staff is solid but I also realize change will happen. Look back thorough the roster of former assistants (including Pete Carroll). At some point some will chose to advance. When that happens it is all on the head coach to find a suitable replacement. This is not unlike any business. Will that happen next year? I think unlikely but you can be sure high paying contracts will be offered to the flavor of the day. I don’t see that as bad – in fact I see is as more kudos for the program.
We ought to be discussing this over a cool one. 😉
So far as I can tell there are only 2 types of exits from Doeren’s staff. 1. People he let go and replaced to improve his staff 2. People who got what I call upward movement for their career, i.e., took a job as a coordinator or when Ryan Nielsen went to the Saints as OL coach.
Oh, and Canada and I doubt we will ever know the truth about that one.
3 coaches have been here 5 seasons – Kitchings, Huxtable, Faulkner
1 coach 4 seasons – Barlow
1 coach 3 seasons – McDonald
2 coaches 2 seasons – Drinkwitz, Ledford
2 coaches 1st season – Patrick, HenryThe newer guys seem to be equal to or an improvement except for Patrick and Henry and it’s too early to tell.
As far as advancement is concerned we will surely lose some but I don’t think waving a little more money in anyone’s face will entice anyone to leave. My son was promoted to head of production in the Atlanta Region for his company but his wife wouldn’t move to Atlanta. He was flying all the time so he was able to make it work. Lived in Burlington, worked out of Atlanta region. Instead of flying home to Atlanta at the end of the week, he flew home to Burlington. Flew out of GBO or RDU to start the week. I have no idea what he would have done if he couldn’t have made it work out. A 1/4 M raise is a lot to turn down.
I just had a senior moment. Apologize for the story about my son. The point was wives have as much to say about assistants leaving as they do unless they are terminated.
Not enough disagreement here to worry about.
Assuming coach D hangs around (expected by me) the next issue is replacing any assistants who either can’t cut it or more likely today move upward.
If I may offer an opinion about assistants at this point in time. The current staff has bought into Doeren’s vision and commitment. They are coaching in a culture that includes time for you family, personal growth and professional growth. It’s clear that Doeren cares about the players as people and he cares about the coaches as people. That caring isn’t pervasive in this profession.
Look no further than our neighbors in Orange County to see how much the coaches and administration cares about the players. College isn’t about learning, it’s about learning how to learn. Are the huge number of football players admitted with fake “learning disabilities” learning how to learn. Success in life is 10-20 percent inspiration and 80-90 percent perspiration. Fake learning disabilities with special treatment to remain eligible doesn’t help a young man in being successful in life.
Aside from their coaching abilities our coaches are here because they care about the young men they work with. Band of Brothers, Trench U, etc. Illustrations of the coaches caring are abundant.
If not this year, and it could be this year that we are competing for a national championship, then we are on the edge of competing. Not because we made incremental progress but because Doeren built the foundation the right way.
He put this staff together the right way as well. Dan Patrick, our DL coach has said publicly he loves it here — “they’ll have to fire me to get me out of Raleigh.” Des Kitchings turned down the HC job at Furman to stay with Doeren and the culture Doeren has established. And so it goes with the coaching staff, and the rest of the football staff. Doeren treats the staff right.
Not only is this team a tight with each other, but the coaches respect each other and work together. We’ve got it going here at NC State. With good karma we could be in the play-offs.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. I’ve been sticking to it despite, as Rick said, some serious grief by many posters.
I don’t care how nice he is or how good the promotional videos are, I want to win a conference title. I want to win one this season, period. Been way too long. This Notre Dame game should be fun and all and I’d love to grab a W, but lets see how great they are against a fading Clemson. That’s the one we need to get.
Too bad you didn’t watch Episode 9 before you commented. As SqlWolf said in his post,
These episodes are like having an insider view of the life inside the program (player and coach). It’s given me more appreciation of what Doeren thinks and is doing with the program.
Nothing in there about how nice Doeren is. The comments about being good promotional videos are consistent with the title of this thread — “Going Forward”.
Too bad your post isn’t relative to this thread.
I must admit I heard of the “One with Wolfpack Football” series. If both football and basketball programs use this type of documentary/marketing approach, I believe they will succeed at attracting more interest from HS kids and even convince them to commit to State. These episodes are like having an insider view of the life inside the program (player and coach). It’s given me more appreciation of what Doeren thinks and is doing with the program. It’s really heartwarming to hear the stories of the other coaches and what they bring to the program. I like what I’ve seen and it is beginning to show on the field with W’s.
^
ThisCaution: reading ONE with Wolfpack Football may be dangerous to your skepticism.
Some want to make some correlation with why Syracuse rolled us in the 3rd quarter with pass outs, and I think it is laughable. I’m sure not having pass outs really helped us against S. Carolina and FSU, when we also laid down in the 3rd.
You are beginning to sound like a broken record, Rye. Check the score at the end of the game to find out who rolled whom. There is no asterisk that says “Syracuse rolled us in the 3rd quarter.”
You may be right that Pass Outs didn’t help against S. Carolina and FSU. Neither game was played at Carter-Finley. 😉
Let’s face it folks. We get out coached at the half by most teams. It happened again Saturday (a few weeks ago). We were just lucky enough to have enough of a lead that it didn’t matter.
That’s a valid point of view but not the only one. It certainly doesn’t explain 6-1 with wins over ranked teams. Perhaps State is letting the opponent come out in the 3rd quarter and “spill all their candy.” There is no prize for winning the 3rd quarter. Maybe after all these coaches have shown their adjustments, we take over the game and win it. These coaches who have out coached Doeren and our staff in the 3rd quarter are NOT 6-1.
We’ve said Doeren is a poor coach so often that we now believe whatever we think about Doeren being out coached must be true. I assert that sometimes we don’t know “Doing it the right way” from poor coaching.
I’ve heard the “lucky” tag put on this 6-1 team. I don’t believe a word of it. We weren’t lucky to have enough of a lead that it didn’t matter. We worked hard enough that it didn’t matter.
Drinkwitz says, “Separation is in the preparation.” Doeren doesn’t get out coached, he and the team out “prepare the other team.” When we win Saturday at ND the separation will have been in the preparation.
We may think we were out coached at half-time. Maybe the coaches believe the preparation will the the separation. If you have prepared your team, maybe the thing to do is go over what you planned for this game, not play “super coach” and try to come up with some change in plans that will miraculously win the game.
Football is a game of emotion. My guess is opposing coaches who find themselves behind at the half try to whip up their team emotionally. IMO Good coaches don’t whip teams up to win the 3rd Quarter. Good coaches don’t try to inspire their teams needlessly, i.e., when they are “lucky” enough to have a good lead. Good coaches save the emotional appeals until they are needed like half-time at Pitt.
But our coaches didn’t do that or so I’ve heard. The preparation includes leadership training for the players. The players were the ones who did the talking in that locker room. The radio people said you could hear their voices coming through the dressing room walls. Players can yell at one another in a way coaches can’t.
In episode 9 of ONE with Wolfpack Football Doeren goes from player to player asking what are you working on today to get better? The all had an answer. All have been coached to get better every day. He also talks about himself trying to be a better coach every day. He exercises, follows a healthy diet, and gets proper rest. IOW he does what he asks his players to do. The assistant coaches (with the possible exception of old man Huxtable) look to be in excellent health, look like they work out, follow a healthy diet, and get proper rest.
That’s “doing it the right way.” I shudder to think how much better my life would have been if I tried to get better every day. Better businessman, better husband, better father, better friend, better man. The young men who complete their eligibility at NC State will have the practice of getting better everyday ingrained in their being. Because of the education they get at NC State and the “education” they get being in Dave Doeren’s football program they will be successful in business leaders in their communities. And they will be better husbands, better fathers, better friends, and better men.
When the value of getting an education at NC State and being in the NC State football program filters back to their high schools and communities, that’s when NC State will be one of the top schools and football programs in the country. The top 25 schools win. Winning alone will not get it done.
http://www.gopack.com/news/2017/10/23/one-with-wolfpack-football-episode-9.aspx?path=football
Take a few minutes to look at this video. It’s a great look at Doeren doing what he believes as a coach. I haven’t seen them all but I am going back and do so. In this video you will see coaching done the right way. The Head Coach is featured on this video as it should be but you can be sure the assistant coaches are doing the same.
There’s a small segment in this video where Doeren works with some special team players on technique to get better. If you have ever complained about Special Teams, do yourself a favor and take a look. (I skip the commercials when I watch.)
^What Grey said, Game Day don’t mean chit. But Grey, you can have all of the above, and if you don’t win, then the recruiting plateaus or spirals. That was my initial concern with Doeren. Not enough “W’s” to help build momentum. It appears we’re in for our best season in years, and like Mac say, the W’s will do more for recruiting and coaching and program relationships than anything else. Staff has a great plan, and it is paying dividends. Now just be in these next two games with a shot to win.
whiteshoes67, Just 2 guys talking Wolfpack football, okay? We are winning in the 5th year, right? How did we get the players we have? We weren’t winning. You could read here every day that we hadn’t beaten a P-5 program with a winning record. As you say not enough W’s to help build momentum.
But the winning that is going on now is coming AFTER Doeren made this program what it is, NOT before winning made this program. I think we fool ourselves with this simplistic thinking that winning will take care of everything. Mac has got the cart before the horse or more simply put he’s got it bassackwards. Winning doesn’t take care of everything, Taking care of everything takes care of winning.
I have come to the conclusion that we are a “build to a year” program and I am OK with that as long as we make that occasional year a good one.
I admit that’s what it looks like, Rick, but that’s not the kind of program DD is building.
From his biography: “Doeren’s one goal for the Wolfpack? To become a championship team. He makes no bones about his desire for his team to compete for a championship on a conference and national level. He believed then, and is even more sure now, that the only way to play at a championship level is to work hard together to get there. He knows that it isn’t an overnight process and is committed to doing it the right way.”
I’m not the only one who believed. Those recruits who accepted scholarship offers believed as well. Some time back Mr. DOG wrote about believing, saying it came first IIRC. Some, a few but some, are saying this team won’t be denied. Chubb says of his team mates, “We are the most confident team in the country.”
We have staff and coaches who believe and are enrolled in DD’s vision. Will it be this year? Could be. More than likely in 2019.
Rick, our w/l record may look like we are a “build to a year” program, but we aren’t. I say we are a “compete for a championship” program. And if we aren’t, Doeren will see to it that we become one.
Rick, good to see you back here.
You might want to check on DD’s current attitude. I got a little frustrated with some of the fans lack of confidence in him myself. That was then. This is now. Doeren isn’t too different with the lights out at home than the rest of us. When he checks with the wife he might give some serious thought to staying. No job is worth that upset. Jerking his kids away from their friends and schools is inconsistent with DD, the man.
His coaches and staff have bought into his vision for NC State and seem happy here in Raleigh. More than one of us has declined higher paying jobs for lots of reasons. I wouldn’t count on DD leaving. I’ve been to Slingsh!t, Mississippi. It ain’t another Raleigh, North Carolina.
Besides, he will have a hard time finding a chancellor with whom he can jam on the guitar. 😉
I keep reading how game day helps recruiting — said by a lot of posters I respect. I don’t get how Game Day helps recruiting. Game Day is for the fans not the HS kids. I acknowledge that Game Day can help brand recognition some but some supposedly knowledgeable people haven’t got that we are NOT the holes as recently as the Pitt game.
Off the top of your head who hosted Game Day 4 weeks ago? 6 weeks ago. Can’t remember? That’s about how much Game day helps recruiting.
The activities planned for official visits pretty much take up Game Day for our visiting recruits. Many of the highly recruited kids are on official visits to other schools. How does Game Day help in recruiting?ll Game Day which at one time was an exciting event now is old hat to young people. And to some old farts such as myself. Game Day? Boooooorrring!
I’m willing to listen. In what ways do you see Game Day once every 5 or 10 year helping in recruiting.
I’ll go so far as to say what I think helps recruiting. Videos such as One with Wolfpack Football produced every week made available to recruits and prospects. Never heard of One with Wolfpack Football? Skate over to Gopack.com, look under sports and click on Archived Stories. Here’s the link for Episode Nine: http://www.gopack.com/news/2017/10/23/one-with-wolfpack-football-episode-9.aspx?path=football
Schools like Clemson are regularly getting these videos in recruits hands. Sweeney learned it at Alabama. Kids getting these videos start wanting to go to Alabama, Clemson and other big time recruiting schools before their junior year in high school. NC State is leveraging recruiting that way now. Producing these videos takes talented staff, facilities and funding.
We have the staff now, the facilities now and the funding apparently. We didn’t before “dull, boring Doeren.” The video facilities are under Doeren. Football is the top priority. Basketball will benefit too. Debbie will see to that.
Back to recruiting. The OVs, official visits, are planned and carried out by the recruiting staff. Nearly all recruits say what a great time they had on the OV or how impressed they were with the family atmosphere at NC State or how impressed they were with our campus, our facilities, our academics. Thunder Dan doesn’t just build bodies of athletes on our roster, he helps with recruiting. He keeps a book of before and after pictures of kids who have lost bad weight and/or added muscle. The recruit sees what coming here to NC State can do for him physically. Other stats are kept and noted for recruits. Thunder Dan Burnette is more than a guy who keeps athletes in shape and build bodies, he is a true asset to recruiting.
The obvious stuff such as meeting with the position coaches and the conversations these guys have often makes the difference. Our coaches are family men with core values like their boss. We attract young men who appreciate those kind of values and want to spend their 4 or 5 years in college mentored by those men.
All these activities are organized by the recruiting staff — where and when the activities take place, when recruits meet with position coaches, meet with Doeren, etc. The players who serve as hosts are paired up with recruits to optimize relationships. Nothing is left to chance. This is recruiting that makes a difference.
This is the kind of recruiting that makes a difference with the kind of young men we are now attracting to NC State. Game Day obviously helping recruiting? I don’t think so.
Fans are jumping on the Wolfpack bandwagon because we are winning. The foundation for that winning started when Dave Doeren accepted the Head Coach position. It takes time to do things the right way. It has taken time for us to build the solid foundation that will serve us for a long time. This would not be possible without Debbie Yow and Randy Woodson. We don’t hear what they do but they are doing what needs to be done to make NC State successful.
Recruiting with substance, not flash in the pan Game Day help.
We’ve been on Gameday once in 2004 against #3 Miami. We lost. The following year the recruiting class was ranked #27 nationally in 2005. Tough to say if that one appearance had an impact then. One thing for certain, it sure as sh!t didn’t hurt. I’m sure a lot of them highschool fellers watch Gameday.
I was at that game. Devon Hester took a kick off 7 yards deep in the end zone and returned it for a TD — the longest KO return I have ever heard of. Hester could fly. IMO Winning would have done a heckuva lot more for recruiting than being on Game Day.
Can’t argue against the notion that Game Day doesn’t hurt. 😉 But do you really think high school ‘fellars’ are watching Game Day with all the actual games going on? I know I don’t.
That #27 ranking was more likely a part of the surge in recruiting rankings and success on the field that occurred during Amato’s early years. Those years really got me excited about the possibility of Wolfpack football really being relevant. It also was the source of some head scratching disappointments, too.
Coaches and players are saying (this week) they want this season to be something special for the team and the university. 9-3 is good, maybe even very good, but it not special. Right now with the record at 6-1, 9-3 is something to settle for.
As long as something special is within our grasp, I’m for something special. All will be tough games but which ones do we fans think we can’t win — ND, Clemson, BC or WFU? The players don’t see one we can’t win. I’ll stick with the players until they prove otherwise.
I’m not predicting anything special but I cannot in my heart stand for anything less than the players and coaches are standing for.
