Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
The red zone offense didn’t decide to sit the game out.
When we don’t score in the red zone, it’s the play-calling. When we do score, the players decided not to sit out.
WOLFPACK Football- 2017 — 9 and 3…
9-4?
We’ll probably never know what it was with Doeren and Canada but it was something. The most likely rumor that I heard had to do with him, Canada, ticking off HS coaches. That is a recruiting death sentence and reason for Doeren to let him go.
I think we can all agree that Keats came in more skilled with the press on this level. Over time DD has developed that aspect. I’m happy so far with both – that does not mean either is the second coming (or not yet) but both are a damn sight better than who they replaced.
Well said and 100% accurate. We needed a coach with a plan to develop a P-5 football program that challenges for championships. It’s slower than any of us would have liked but it seems to be getting there. 8-4 with a good chance to go to 9-4 with a good recruiting class coming in. Better than a sharp stick in the eye.
A great example of this is Keatts after the UNCG loss. That was a real stinker. He said that he wasn’t going to make excuses about not having a player. He’a continually said he’s pleased with the effort of the kids. He’a not said the obvious (we need better players), blames youth, whined about the hand he was dealt, called out the 1/2 empty PNC, etc..
“He said that he wasn’t going to make excuses about not having a player.” Saying this is making excuses for not having a player. If he wasn’t implying it was an excuse, why say he wasn’t going to use it as an excuse.”
“He’a continually said he’s pleased with the effort of the kids.” This is coach speak 101. You aren’t claiming it an exclusive with Keatts are you?
“He’a not said the obvious (we need better players), blames youth, whined about the hand he was dealt, called out the 1/2 empty PNC, etc..” This statement is fundamental dishonesty. Doeren hasn’t said we need better players, I have. You disagree with that? Nor has he “whined” about the hand he has dealt. Easy to make unsubstantiated claims. Anybody can do it.
Coaches have to talk at pressers. Coach says that we have a young team, youngest team, veteran team, experienced team, whatever. When it’s a young team, Rye cites that as “blaming players.” Rye, coaches, and they all do it, are just filling space talking about their team. Nobody is blaming anybody. Except you.
ASU along with 4 other teams blocked 6 kicks in 2017 — first in Div. 1. NC State only blocked 5 kicks — good for 6th place. Not bad for the worst special team Rye can remember.
Special Teams Stats:
KICK RETURNS: #32-711 Yards Opps 48-970
PUNT RETURNS: #15-203 Yards Opps 18-237
KICK RETURN AVERAGE 22.2 Opps 20.2
PUNT RETURN AVERAGE 13.5 Opps 13.2I thought some stats and rankings might dispel the notion that our special teams are atrocious or horrible or other negative descriptions. Stats and facts will just be tiring to some.
I have asserted that bigger, faster, stronger, better blocking and tackling athletes would improve our Special Teams. Some think what we need is better coaching. I disagree. BTW we are recruiting bigger, faster, stronger, better blocking and tackling athletes. Should help all our teams.
Hopefully, our kicking issues may clear up next season with the recruitment of Chris Dunn from Lexington. From what I read he was rated by kicking guru, Chris Sailer, as the number 5 placekicker nationally in the 2018 class.
Dunn was rated by Sailer as the number 1 placekicker nationally in the 2017 class. — Chris’s Jr year. Chris has never lost a competition — even earning a first time ever perfect score in a national competition in Las Vegas. Why the drop? Dunn stayed off the kicking competition circuit this year to strengthen his leg, practice kicking of the turf, kicking for height at the line of scrimmage, and KO that are high and come down between the 5 yd line and goal line.
He may not work out. We won’t know until we see him kick under pressure, off the turf in front of 50,000 screaming fans but I’ll take a chance on the formerly ranked number 1 kicker.
Special Teams Stats:
Pack Opps
KICK RETURNS: #32 Yards-711 48-970
PUNT RETURNS: #15 Yards-203 18-237
KICK RETURN AVERAGE 22.2 20.2
PUNT RETURN AVERAGE 13.5 13.2Looking at the records we see that our kick return average is 2 yards more than our opponents.
We also see our punt return average is slightly better, nearly the same as our opponents.We hired an experienced coach to coach 2 problem areas on our defense — nickels and safeties. What do we do? Complain about Special Teams and how we should have hired a special teams coach. The records/stats don’t agree.
Our kickers do well in practice according to that lying Head Coach of ours. An ex-kicker sees all the kicking mechanics problems or supposedly claims on another message board that a good special teams coach could fix our kicking problems. We’re suppose to believe the second hand claims from an anonymous message board. Please. Not the best source of information and knowledge about kicking IMO.
Grey: I honestly find your defense of DD as or more tiring than you find my posts.
Rye, I don’t find your posts tiring but I do find it interesting that on a site where darn near every post criticizes DD, you find my post defending DD tiring. What you call defending, I call clarifying. Mostly I try to point out how the coaching of our team works structure and delegation wise. I know, I know, you don’t want to hear it.
but I can tell you that DD is the responsible party, and then is the one that often blames the players, refs, laptops, etc. when they don’t work out.
Thanks for letting me know DD is the responsible party. That’s a little condescending, don’t you think? Your interpretation of what DD says at the pressers says more about YOU than him. I have heard veiled complaints about refs — you can’t complain or be critical without paying a big fine — but I never heard DD blame a loss on refereeing. What would be an accurate statement is YOU claim he OFTEN blames players, refs, laptops, etc.
Doeren comes out for the second half of his first game and is amazed to see a large percentage of the seats empty. After the game he tells the fans something to the effect, “We need your support, please try to be back in your seats for the start of the 3rd quarter.” A straight forward request. He didn’t know he was talking to thin-skinned, back stabbers who would cut him down at the first opportunity. Take it as a request, he11 no, not this group of fans. “He called us out” is the cry. Shame on him. How dare he make such a request. Doesn’t he know we need our beer. Screw the team, screw the game, getting that buzz up to pregame level is what’s important.
It’s been game on every since. Any opportunity to make him wrong is fair game. Mention laptops on our opponents sideline? He’s blaming laptops for losing. Mention some obvious no-calls? He’s blaming refs for losing the game. In your and many minds Doeren is doing or saying something wrong, waiting to happen. Notice how quick you were to go to that in a discussion about special teams. Couldn’t help yourself.
Grey: I honestly find your defense of DD as or more tiring than you find my posts.
Rye, I don’t find your posts tiring but I do find it interesting that on a site where darn near every post criticizes DD, you find my post defending DD tiring. What you call defending, I call clarifying. Mostly I try to point out how the coaching of our team works structure and delegation wise. I know, I know, you don’t want to hear it.
but I can tell you that DD is the responsible party, and then is the one that often blames the players, refs, laptops, etc. when they don’t work out.
Thanks for letting me know DD is the responsible party. That’s a little condescending, don’t you think? Your interpretation of what DD says at the pressers says more about you than him. I have heard veiled complaints about refs — you can’t complain or be critical without paying a big fine — but I never heard DD blame a loss on refereeing. What would be an accurate statement is YOU claim he OFTEN blames players, refs, laptops, etc. when they don’t work out — what ever “when they don’t work out” means.
Nope, check out how Roof’s defenses have been ranked over the years. He was DC for Auburn when they won the NC. GT has been consistently ranked high on the defensive side under Roof.
Yogi, Here is some counter information in the AJ-C posted by Mark Bradley.
“If we go by Brian Fremeau’s defensive efficiency rankings on Football Outsiders, here’s where his men ranked over his five seasons under Johnson – 77th, 70th, 62nd, 94th and 64th.”
“Of the past 10 titlists, nine ranked in the top 10 in defensive efficiency; in 2010, Auburn ranked 34th.
http://www.myajc.com/blog/mark-brad…ling-wasn-high-enough/bIDuLslHLbtLYWPfXWQREJ/
Because of the “Jimmies and Joes” factor we will never know the relevance of these stats. With what he had to work Roof may have been doing as well as any DC could have done. Personally, I think he fits in with us and will bust his butt proving he IS a quality DC. He has the experience to bring to the party. And IIRC Wake Forest ran an offense similar to GT. Roof’s knowledge will be invaluable there.
Yogi did you mean Hux?
83, I had to read Yogi’s post twice and then interpret it. My conclusion? He got into the eggnog a little early today. 😉
Hux’s defenses haven’t been consistently ranked very high. (Jimmies and Joes have something to do with that IMO)
Roof’s defenses are a mixed bag. Before GT his defenses were very good. Having Roof be a co-DC will help in recruiting is what I believe and I think what Yogi was saying.
Happy and prosperous holidays to you both.
Grey
Rye, Ever wonder why we have coaches come to us for jobs and so few leave for parallel jobs? Me too. What has Doeren done to create this? I’d say he has created and fostered a culture that is unique or semi-unique to NC State.
In addition to the long hanging fruit such as vision for the future, family atmosphere, and sensible working hours with time for family, I’d say he has structured his staff for participation in the decision making process. Every coach but the newest 2, Dan Patrick and Aaron Henry have title/responsibilities besides position coaching.
I’ve worked places where I had a job to do and that’s all and I’ve worked places where I was a part of building a business. Not hard to figure which was more rewarding. Our coaches share building a team. It must be vary hard to give Drink free rein when things do go so well but he does.
Our coaches seem to be in it for the long haul — Doeren’s best job of retaining recruits since he’s been here IMO.
About this Co-coordinator thing, Roof seems not to be a great recruiter and Hux is. The titles are shared but the responsibilities are divided. Maybe, if not hopefully, Roof will have a bigger part of what we know as DC and Hux will take on other responsibilities such as being in contact with defensive recruits with Des doing his thing with the offense.
I know the expanded time allowed for recruiting has been a concern for DD. Vacation time with families is reduce, etc. Maybe hiring Roof is part of a solution to this perceived problem.
Colleges and recruiters are making contact with sophomores and freshmen now. The earlier the contact, the better relationship you can establish. We know many kids sign with school because of the position coach or recruiting coach. Keeping the coordinator title makes sense in this context. More prestige in being recruited by the co-DC than the ex-DC. 😉
Hux may not be the very best tactical DC, but few in coaching more well thought of as a person or better liked that Hux. That’s important in establishing relationships with HS coaches. The more I think about this, the better I like it.
Just thinking out loud.
Rye: I so wanted help with the LB’s that I read what wasn’t there. In the PR that was released on gopack.com only co-DC, safeties and nickels were listed as Roof’s coaching responsibilities. He is also Associate HC. When it all shakes out nobody knows what the actual assignments will be. DD changed his mind about something when he hired Roof. He may change it again.
While Doeren is responsible for everything to do with the team, he doesn’t make the “mind boggling” calls you and so many others blame him for. The calls may have been influenced by him during Drink’s first year, but last year he let Drink make his own calls (and mistakes.)
Drink is up in the box. Des Kitchings, Assistant Head Coach for Offense is on the sidelines I believe.Drink, along with his fellow offense coaches, will go over what worked and what didn’t work and refine the play calling and much more. BTW I wonder why Kitchings is never mentioned when mind-boggling play calling comes up. Because of these calls some of us advocate firing DD mid-season if not mid-game and replace him with… wait for it… Kitchings, Assistant Head Coach for Offense.
One of the many things most fans don’t know is we (the football staff) employ an analytic consultant. Maybe even have one on staff now. Some of the strange calls may be influenced by analytics. The “go for it or not” decisions are influenced by analytic. As far as calling plays fans think should be called, defenses are prepared for those calls. Notice the good teams seem to have a selection of what I would call semi-trick plays to select from.
I’ve said this before and I know I’m wasting my breath doing it again. Schemes make a difference but the real difference in upgrading special teams is done by upgrading personnel. The pros trade for upgrades in personnel to upgrade special teams, infrequently bringing in a new coach. A new special teams coach does not make the gunners faster or better tacklers, the return man faster or the kickers more accurate or skillful. It’s been said many times, it ain’t about the X’s and O’s, it’s about the Jimmies and Joes.
Some teams upgrade the special teams by using players who are starters on offense and defense. Our special teams will get better as we continue to recruit better. One of the best special teams players I ever saw play was Stephen Tulloch when he was a freshman. You knew you were watching a future star play.
There are a trade offs using starters on special teams: Starters risk injury and fewer players get to play. Fewer players playing can have an effect on recruiting. Doeren seems to be making the right decisions right now.
Beamer Ball wasn’t about correcting things that cost him games, it was about aggressively doing things that won games for him. I expect he had some of his best personnel on those special teams. Remember Terrence Holt blocking punts and Manny Lawson blocking kicks? Great personnel, not so much schemes.
Glad to hear Beamer’s cancer is clearing up.
Cheers for the holidays.
Grey
Beamer coming to State to coach special teams is about the same as Coach K coming here after he retires to help with free throw percentages.
I didn’t say that, Rye. I had the thought but did’t say the words. I’m working on not thinking those thoughts now. 😉
When you have two people in charge of the same thing, you really have no one in charge.
Clemson has co-OC’s and managed to win a natty with “no one in charge.” The Clemson set-up has one OC working with the passing game and one with the run game.
IMO At this point it is fruitless try to understand how the Wolfpack coaching is structured based on titles. At best we know that Hux and Roof will be working together to coordinate the defense. Roof is not a noted recruiter. Hux is an excellent recruiter. Word on the street has it that Payton Wilson came because of Hux.
The Special teams issues… every season under DD. They’re bad and going to continue to cost us games.
Rye, Ever since Doeren became HC, everything about Wolfpack football is or was bad and has cost us games. Doeren’s clock management and TO management cost us games. Half-time adjustments and lousy 3rd quarter play cost us games. Hux cost us games. Red zone offense and head scratching play calls cost us games. The DB’s cost us games, the LB’s cost us games. A few years ago the WR’s and OL cost us games. Now it’s the special teams that cost us games. True enough our miserable kicking has, if not cost us games, has made it difficult to win. But nobody beats the Pack according to posters on this site, we beat ourselves by blatantly poor coaching that cost us games.
“Why can’t we kick it out of the end zone instead of to the 5?” To our credit or detriment we are being aggressive with our KO coverage strategy. The high kick-off intended to fall between the 5 yard and goal line is intentional. The strategy is to stop the return short of the 20. We have both succeeded and failed — failed mostly due to faulty kicking. Had a couple of holding calls not been ignored instead of a TD, SoCar would have started our game from just past the 15 yard line. Would great coaching have had the ref make the call?
No doubt special team play can be improved and IMO will be improved in 2018 because of the athletes available for special teams. Bringing in the best coach in the business would not have solved our special team issues. The best basketball coach in the world could not make a group of mediocre athletes, relevant in our conference much less nationally relevant.
Our team personnel, offense and defense, has experienced an increase in athletic ability and talent. Frank Beamer couldn’t have taken the the talent available and turned it into a top-performing group of special teams. When pro teams need upgrades to special teams, they trade for talent, not hire another coach. Hiring Frank Beamer will not raise the athletic ability of our special teams.
The talent level at NC State has been increasing overall since Doeren ‘arrove’. Our special teams will not be a problem in 2018.
I have railed season long on the play of the safties.
This is why Roof is here…(IMHO)Mr. DOG, That is so true.
I expect we will get far more benefit from Roof being here than just improving our safety’s play. We’ve seen the PR announcement which only touches the surface.
I see where Roof will be coaching the LB’s as well. IMO there is an area that needed a coaching upgrade. I also don’t under estimate the value of Doeren having another ex-head coach from the ACC to use as a sounding board and confidante.
What I do not see is how this helps us in Special teams. That area has to improve, and it is not just place kicking. This is the worst (and for the longest) that I ever remember in my lifetime at NC State.
True enough we lost more games due to coverage issues than place kicking issues. Special teams roster was hit hard with losses of Riley Nicholson, Brock Miller, James Valdez and Freddie Phillips. We were hard hit offensively when we lost Hines due to injury and the first 2 games Will Richardson was suspended. Defensively we were hard hit when Stevens was out 4 games.
Think about losing 4 key players on our coverage teams. We filled in with some position players who were on coverage teams before they were on the 2 deep but even the best if he is out of position can’t make a play if he screws up an assignment.
Coaching structures are changing. The Quality Control coaches do a lot what coaches had to do in the “old days.” They chart plays, find tendencies and create “game plans” among other things. The problem may not be a coaching issue but a Quality Control coach issue.
There may or may not be a change in our Special Teams Quality Control coach. If so it will not be a public announcement. (BTW The uncontrolled number of Quality Control coaches is a place where the rich schools can gain advantages. Recruiting staff is another. There are others such as analytic people on staff.)
For football fans who are interested in the qualifications of our QC staff, go to gopack.com/football and click on staff.
I can’t find on the go pack site.
If this doesn’t do it
http://www.gopack.com/news/2017/12/22/roof-joins-wolfpack-football-staff.aspx?path=football
Try http://www.gopack.com find football, click on Archived Stories.
This season hasn’t finished yet and I want ’em to strap on those pads and go at it again. Come on TED (Roof) make us a defensive juggernaut
Yogi, this is the icing on 2018 recruiting. I can hardly believe we got Ted Roof for a DC.
Greywolf, you know that expressing enthusiasm for the Pack is strictly verboten.
I’m pretty sure it’s just Wolfpack football. But I think you are right. The better the Pack does, the fewer the comments. Most Wolfpack football fans have flown the SFN coop.
That’s too bad, really. There used to be quite a few here. As a matter of fact this used to be a great site for discussing State sports.
It’s still my favorite site for discussing maters, food, gardening, etc.
Good class. It was nice to see Leary sign. We now have a succession plan for QB. It is nice t see the 4 stars, but it was also nice to see kids that contributed at the larger high schools. I tend to think that translates better than kids that put up gaudy stats at smaller schools, playing against smaller schools. In basketball the AAU circuit, traveling tournaments, etc. help vet whether a small school kid is ready for the big time. In football it is much harder to tell.
Good comments especially the potential for kids that contributed at larger high schools.
Leary reportedly skipped baseball this spring to bulk up for football. He was 3-time All-State, 3-time state champion, Nike Elite 11 QB, and the Army AA bowl. Trent Dilfer, coach at the Elite 11, says that at an NFL 1 on 1 Leary would look like he belonged. In a high-light vid he escaped from a sack and took it 60 yards to the house. IOW he’s not a running QB but he can run when necessary.
The only problem I see is with the succession plan. Leary doesn’t seem like the kind of kid who will lay back and wait his turn. In a competition for QB we’d have a real battle. Good thing he’s not registering early.
And Leary may not be our best recruit. Payton Wilson who flipped from EweNC is the LB we’ve missed for so long now. Played RB, QB and WR as well as LB for his HS. Also State champion wrestler. Yes, Mr. DD and staff done real good this year with this 24th rated class.
I need to go calm down and take my Geritol.
Wonder if Palmer, the 4-star CB Dook decommit, is a possibility…
Could be and we have 4 CBs signed on #Pack18 already. Still a 4-star corner would be hard to turn down IF he approached us. The staff is likely looking for recruits who fill needs.
Im SO mad right now!!! I have had enough!!!! We’ll never help anyone again……EVER!! I’m too kindhearted and trusting.
Yesterday, it was so cold out that we took a man into our home out of the kindness of our hearts. We felt SO sorry for him. Poor thing was trembling out in the cold, but this morning he had just vanished. Not a word…not even a goodbye or a thank you for sheltering him!!
What? The last straw?!?!
The last straw was when I realized he had pee’d all over the living room floor!!! Seriously, THAT is the thank you we get for being good to people?!?!?!
So now, I’m going to warn my friends to watch out for this man! He is heavy set, wearing nothing but a scarf, he has a nose that looks like a carrot, two black eyes, and his arms are so skinny they look like sticks!!! Don’t bring him into your house!! What a huge mess he made on the floor.Heavy set with skinny arms wearing nothing but a scarf. Shouldn’t be too hard to spot. 😉
