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The next time you accuse me of twisting the facts, you better have proof or the entire post will be deleted.
To say I accused you of “twisting the facts” is false. The facts are the facts — nothing to twist. I openly admit to disagreeing with your interpretation of the facts. I tend to “get after” what I consider unwarranted devaluing of the Pack’s (and Doeren’s) efforts.
I based my comment of “average offense” on the fact that State’s offensive stats are generally at or above the midpoint in the conference and national rankings. “Average” may have been a little harsh…but I haven’t gotten over the Clemson game yet.
Unfortunately this comment was posted WHILE I was composing my comment. My comments were based on my opinion that you WERE a little harsh in your judgment that the Pack is “average” on offense. Having admitted that yourself, I would have cut you a lot of slack and would not have accused you of doing what you had admitted to. It is also unfortunate, and I wasn’t clear about this, the “Go ahead, let’s hear the “yes, but’s” if you have to make State worse than it is.” comment was pointed to OT13, PackAlum44 and a few others from another board who I co-mingle with SFN in my mind who seem to enjoy dissing the Pack. In re-reading it I can see how that comment would piss you off and I sincerely apologize for my carelessness in not being clear about to whom I was referring. IOW the “let’s hear the “yes, but’s” was a future comments reference, not your current comments. Damned sloppy of me, I’d say.
You explain your majority interpretation of “average” in another post. I’m a “literal” or “exact” kind of guy and if 7, for example, is average then to me any thing ‘south’ of seven is below average while anything above seven is above average. And I admittedly am biased when it comes to Wolfpack football.
VaWolf82, while I doubt you or anyone else will read this long-winded ramble, I do apologize. I also say that threatening to delete posts that conflict with your point of view, doesn’t fit my pictures of you. Delete me or not but threatening someone to be careful responding to you IMO reflects poorly on you. I hope that comment doesn’t get me deleted. 😉
“Scoring Offense: 33.7 (6, 51)
Total Offense: 447.3 (4, 44)”
Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t there 14 teams in our conference and 125+/- in the FBS? Let’s not make it worse than it is, okay? We are above average in offense according to the numbers. This is a significant improvement over last year. Go ahead, let’s hear the “yes, but’s” if you have to make State worse than it is.“Scoring Defense: 28.5 (13, 83)
Total Defense: 396.2 (13, 68)”
We are not good, not even close to being good. IOW we are bad. I’d like to think we are struggling. Unfortunately there is no one player like QB that can turn the defense around. No scheme makes offenses beatable. About all I know of that makes any real difference is an infusion of players who are, to use an old cliché, agile, mobile and hostile.IMO About the best we can hope for is that the defense is not really this bad but has been “struggling” and will find itself in the next few games.
coaching will be a factor when you consider 2 evenly matched teams.
A fellow coach had this to say about Bear Bryant, “He can take his’n and beat your’n or he can take your’n and beat his’n.” Superior preparation, execution and (recruited) ability is a result of superior coaching.
I shamefully envied UNC when they got Fedora. Now I would be sick if he coached State. IMNSHO Coaches make a huge difference. It’s why they can command the salaries they do.
not brought in top 20 recruiting classes that UNC has done with surprising consistency post-Bunting years.
I forget how well we have done with our pitiful recruiting classes. What was it? 5 in a row with those mediocre athletes?
If State fans told the truth about it, UNC has a dominant fan base in NC. NC State has had to overcome the doctor, lawyer and businessman persona of UNC verses NC State’s farmer, mechanic and engineer persona of the past. Don’t get me wrong I’m proud of being of the farmer, mechanic and engineer group.
Hell, even StateFans sometimes ridicules country folk. Think not? Go back and read some of the posts during Fowler’s tour of duty. Jed? Not exactly indicating doctor, lawyer of businessman is it.
UNC has done less with more than any school I know of.
Greywolf, emotional investment should be for every game.
That’s a little condescending and not grounded in reality. FSU was the #1 ranked team in the country. Losing to FSU meant any chance for the conference championship was ended. The factor of being oh so close to victory is part of the letdown. I don’t see how you think the emotional investment in the GSU, ODU and Presbyterian games was the same as for FSU. It isn’t just the lack of return on investment that f**ks with the mind, it’s additional let down having sweet victory turned into heart wrenching defeat.
You want to grasp this? Try looking in your own life at a similar event where there was emotional investment and loss and notice how long or how quickly you got over it. If it’s big enough, sometimes we never get over it.
part of the fiasco was when we spiked the ball and then got a delay of game penalty for not getting the play in on time(coaching).
I couldn’t tell from watching TV if the play was late getting in or Jacoby couldn’t get the play communicated and the snap before time ran out. I’m sure that Doeren would take the blame off Jacoby if that were the case.
We went into halftime with a timeout in our pocket so even if we go for a touchdown instead of field goal if managed properly we should have had at least one more play.
So what would you have done differently to “properly manage” the last 8 seconds? Jacoby threw the ball away and the clock operator let the clock run out or so the TV announcers seem to think. We should have had one more play as the game was managed. Often I sit in my easy chair in the calm of my living room and disagree with how things go on the field. This is not one of those times.
Alpha,
You handled this ^ very nicely. I wanted to rip off his head and sh8t down his throat.Again, thanks for providing a post that provoked some pretty decent discussion. If you got the time check out the “Emotional Loss:…” thread. I’d like to hear your (and a few others who haven’t weighed in) thoughts.
foose, Of course it can’t all be laid on the FSU lose. I think it’s worthy of note that the team pulled itself together and held Clemson offense to a field goal in the 2nd half. Their defense was playing just as hard and their offense, including Watson for as long as he was in there, was trying it’s best to score again. We weren’t playing well enough to win but what the heck, we were up against one of, if not the best teams in the country.
While disappointed I’m not upset that the things you pointed out may be true. At least we aren’t loaded with 4 and 5 star recruits and played like we did.
If coming off a string of emotional tough games, or even just 2, I would agree with you. But this was just one such game.
For there to be a set up like our losing to FSU there has to be an investment of emotional capital and the ensuing lack of return on investment. Just emotional games multiple emotional loses doesn’t have the same effect.
In 1967 we played Penn State when we were ranked #3 and I don’t know for sure but PSU may have been #1 or 2. Tony Barchuk was stopped trying to score from the 1. He was met by AA LB, Dennis Onkonst (sp), and stopped cold on the 1/2 yard line. We dropped out of the top 5 and lost the following week to — wait for it — Clemson.
We at NC State don’t have a lot of experience in this kind of game. And the most recent Clemson game for sure didn’t rank along side the ’67 game but there had to have been a huge emotional investment in that game.
I hadn’t thought about what you said, “I tend to think that in the mix was an excessive amount in basking in media attention, and taking too much pride in a LOSS.” We do have some growing up to do.
Thanks for weighing in on the conversation. Now where is Mr. DOG? His prediction along with ours stunk up SFN. 😉
Very disappointing game.
Yes, it was.
We were bulldozed and it is beyond me why you are not ready to play the game. Not being ready is on the staff.
Not surprised it was beyond you to know. Perhaps their not being ready to play was because of the emotional capital invested in the FSU game without a win as the return on investment.
What was really disturbing was the fiasco right before halftime when we had a timeout and go into the locker room with no points with the timeout in our pocket.
The coaches handled the last 8 seconds just fine. There was no need or opportunity to call a timeout. The clock should have stopped with the incomplete forward pass. The officials refused to review a reviewable situation. The timeout had to be save in the event that a pass was completed and the receiver did not get into the end zone. We didn’t need a “vanity field goal,” we needed a TD. Had the scenario played out that way, I would support going for the TD.
If this had turned out to be a close game and we lost because of the total mismanagement of the last few minutes of the half because our coaches choked. Our team is young but the coaches should know what they are doing by now.
If a frog had wings he wouldn’t bump his ass when he landed. You are entitled to your opinion that last minutes of the half were mismanaged, the coaches don’t know what they are doing and the coaches choked. Unfortunately your logic doesn’t support your opinion.
I’d feel a lot better about the rebuilding, if we were lighting up the recruiting trail.
I would be very concerned if Doeren was landing the big fish like Butch Davis was when “Black Santa” was doing his recruiting. The last thing we need is an NCAA spectacle like they have over on Brokeback Hill.
Here’s one man’s opinion regarding recruiting. Recruiting isn’t a one season game. We and others are getting commits from juniors and some sophomores. It takes time, sometimes years, for the coaches to create relationships with HS coaches as well as the athletes themselves.
Turning a football program is like turning a cruise ship. It isn’t a whimsical operation. We will have conversations with big time recruits. Then we will land a few. Then we will land a lot. We have quality recruits in the conversation for coming to play at NC State. The numbers we will land will increase. Hang in there, hungwolf.
Our time is coming.
^
Ryebread. I thought we were on the same page when I readmeasuring bodies and more importantly our endowment.
Then I realized you weren’t talking about those girls in the tight black slacks and skimpy tops.
Now that I’m on your page I offer my biased opinion: We need to work one along with the other or we will surely lose one. I’m putting my trust in Randy Woodson. He seems to be about as good a chancellor as we can hope for. (Didn’t we just receive our biggest endowment or grant?)
1. left on Western Blvd.
2. right onDixie TrailBlue Ridge.
3. left on Trinity Road…. and on to victory…Alpha, Thanks for starting the BC conversation. There really isn’t a whole lot to say about the Eagles vs. the Wolfpack that hasn’t been said – 2 very young teams, both needing a win, both needing to get themselves bowl eligible. The Eagles have had 2 WTF games — a win vs. USC and a loss at home vs. Colorado State. The Wolfpack has had 2 WTF halves — a great first half vs. FSU and a miserable first half vs. CU. (You could say that we had WTF halves in both the GSU and ODU games.)
I have a somewhat different view of the Clemson game. Standing in Clemson’s shoes I think they were apprehensive of the Wolfpack offense getting a good start, settling the team down and giving Clemson a good game. That Clemson took the ball instead of deferring is telling. Pure speculation but I’d say the Clemson game plan was to score early and unsettle the Pack before we could settle in with our previously potent offense. They did exactly that. Doeren said in his presser Monday that at 14-0 he had trouble getting his team to focus. Perfectly executed game plan.
In a manner all to familiar with Wolfpack Fandom we have tried to make the Clemson game more wrong with us than was right with Clemson. Admittedly after the smoke cleared in the first half, we were out of the game. Had they made Watson their QB before the UGA game, they likely would be undefeated and ranked at or near #1. It’s no secret our defense is suspect but they didn’t allow Clemson’s juggernaut offense but a field goal in the second half. On the other side of that coin with the score at 41-0 Clemson likely lost it’s edge.
Were the score more what was expected at the half, Clemson’s offense no doubt would have scored more in the second half but so would have we. But they didn’t and that’s the point. Looking for something to take from the Clemson game? This Wolfpack team does not quit. Some young defensive talent is starting to emerge. I’ve said before there’s not much a coach can do about the talent level in the first year of recruiting but he can do something about attitude. In that regard mission accomplished.
Yes, this season may be at some kind of fork in the road. Is the football program really at a fork in the road? Only with those who have already decided it’s the south fork. And we all know who they are.
as sports in general should be far down the priority list of a Chancellor.
Rye, It seems to me that Woodson sees excellence in sports to be an asset to enhance the drawing power of a university to achieving the goals of its priority list. Is it coincidental that the Stanfords, Michigans, etc., have both? North Carolina State University, as Lou Holtz was fond of referring to us, has its eye on excellence in both academics and sports.
But the question has evolved into, which conference has the best game day experience? The answer to that question is IMNSHO is in the eyes of the beholder. I will say that there seems to be an incongruity where on one hand we are attending a family-friendly event and on the other for some the opportunity to get wasted is a high priority.
Me? I like to get inside the gates in time to watch the band, flag girls and those dancing girls with the tight black pants and skimpy tops go by.
Have you noticed the flag girls have lost some weight this year? That compliment ranks right up there with, “You sweat less than any fat girl I ever danced with.”
Doeren really mismanaged the last 8 seconds of the first half. Doeren does not deserve to be in the ACC. And as I have said all along……Yow needs to go!
All together now sing, “I don’t like anybody very much.”
Here’s an idea: trade E.Staal, Semin and Ward for 4 top line defensemen. Bring back Torchensky, McGinn and the best young keeper we got to replace E.Staal, Semin and Ward. Put Khudobin in the net and see if we can win some games 1-0 or 2-1. Never happen but…
Please don’t mention Cam Ward’s salary again. Jim Rutherford’s legacy?
8 Dmen? Aside from Sekera and Faulk no one else is distinguishing themselves as either good enough to keep or bad enough to send down.
My wife has season tickets. Since I have a handicap Parking pass and can park next to the building, she takes me with her. I’m hoping some of her friends want to go this year.
I guess they are serious about not throwing sh*t on the field or at the camera man.
Judging from the number of fans, I’d guess this was UN* spring game.
Had other things going on at the house.
My bad. Lots of “fans” were “bragging” about turning off the game on another site and I took your turning off the game the wrong way. I apologize. I should have known better.
(Not directed at you, Wulfpack) Clemson may have played its 2nd string but they sure didn’t “take it easy” on State nor did they “call off the dogs.” Just the opposite. Clemson was doing its best to preserve the shutout and on the other side of the ball they were trying to move the ball and score.
State played its “2nd string” DL as well as its “2nd string” safeties. Were we “taking it easy” on Clemson? In case it isn’t known, Clemson’s “2nd string DL” is composed of next years starters. Their “2nd string” DB’s are upperclassmen.
State’s defense “held” Clemson to 27 points which is a helluva lot less than some teams will do. The “Top 25” Tar Holes would take that. State didn’t pack it in and sell out the 2nd half. They kept fighting, although to no avail, which is what some of us were looking to see. We lack talent, not heart. IMNSHO that’s a credit to DD. He can’t change the talent in 1 or 2 years but he can change the attitude. I’d say he’s done that. And the boy does have that “fire in his belly” that’s been missing since CTC was sent packing.
Sunday was yesterday. I guess I’d best stop preaching ’til next week.
I am pretty sure I read where Clemson played its seccond string in the second half. That would be calling off the dogs.
You missed VIC Beasley forcing a fumble and taking it in for a TD at about 9 minutes to go in the 3rd qtr. Watson threw 3 or 4 deep balls trying to score. So apparently they didn’t call the dogs off until a little after that.
If I sound annoyed at your attempt to minimize what little success State had, I guess I am. Watson and Williams both played in the second half but managed just a field goal. As a matter of fact that’s all that Clemson’s 1st or 2nd string offense managed to get in the 2nd half. But you shouldn’t be expected to know that since you bailed at the half. Just curious, did you see the come back vs. Maryland in ‘The (blech) Carter several years ago or did bail on that, too?
In ’74 State came from 7 down in OT to beat UCLA on the way to the NC. Stick around, Wulfpack. Giving up doesn’t become you.
What WILL be the problem is fans rushing the exits at C-F.
Explains why we are only 3rd in the conference in pct. attendance.
I think it was Noel who said, “Florida State beat us twice.” The coaches are responsible for the team not being ready to play. It is always their responsibility. Being responsible for and being blame for are 2 entirely different animals. Want to blame someone for State being flat, blame FSU.
Clemson prepared and we simply did not.
I respectfully disagree. Clemson out prepared us alright but it wasn’t last week in practice. The “preparation” was bringing in highly ranked recruiting classes for the last 3 or 4 years. Watson was a 5 star recruit — the number 1 rated dual threat QB in the country this past year and we haven’t seen a defensive end like Vic Beasley since Mario Williams.
The game was full of players in Orange jerseys that were big, fast and talented, IOW 4 and 5 star recruits. That’s the preparation that beat us.
Clemson in my opinion is the best team in the ACC. Forget FSU. I think they would give any team in the SEC a game.
Please tell me this is sarcasm. You saw that Clemson already lost to FSU and FSU had their 2nd string QB in… and CU has already lost to the SEC , didn’t you?
I think he’s talking about the Clemson team we saw yesterday, not the one with the back up QB at the helm.
FOOTBALL AT STATE IS IN SUCH A FUNK IT WILL TAKE A PROVEN COACH WHO CAN RECRUIT TOP ATHLETES TO EVER MAKE US COMPETITIVE.
Please don’t shout. I know the game was frustrating and disappointing but let’s not shout at one another, okay?
First, I was very wrong about how we would play at Clemson, particularly on defense. It won’t be the last time I’m wrong. I still don’t agree that it’s our 3rd down defense that’s our problem. It’s all the downs defense. On the other side of the ball, it’s no shame in getting dominated by Clemson’s defense. (How the hell did EweN* score 35 against it.)
We will not play as well in the future as we played against FSU and we won’t play as badly in the future as we played against Clemson.
I still think we can find 2 or 3 more wins in our last 6 games.
Does anybody else get the delicious irony of FSU defenders laying on the field, gassed, trying to slow our offense down? Are we going to see the same thing this week with Clemson trying to slow our offense down so their great defense can catch it’s breath? Why do I have the feeling that Coach Canada has something planned for Mr. Beasley? Maybe I’m wrong but this is the level of confidence I have in the Pack these days. Rob Crisp, if you have any pro aspirations, this is the week to raise your draft stock.
Defense? Mr. DOG says they are coming of age. Let it be, oh, let it be!
