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If the university was running a diploma mill to keep players eligible, I Would be “disappointed beyond all belief.” If the players were shaving points, I would be “flabbergasted and disgusted.”
Neither our school nor our team has done anything wrong. The only person I would hang by his gonads is the unnamed coach who delivered the cash to the unnamed player’s parents. We don’t know if the unnamed player even knew about the deal nor do we know if our HC knew.
What I WOULD like to know from some of you basketball gurus is who was the recruiting coach of record — the unnamed dude who was in contact with the unnamed parents of the unnamed player.
Adidas is our athletic apparel supplier and is the party with the most to gain from the unnamed player wearing Adidas Shoes and other apparel. I hope Debbie Yow has the schools legal staff searching for a way out of any apparel contract we may have with Adidas.
Even though the unnamed coach who delivered the cash is in deep, neither the team nor the school has committed a crime IMO. In any event hire the law firm that EweNC used and we will be found to be in full compliance with any NCAA rules and not subject to so much as a wrist slap.
It’s not like our HC had a slush fund like a certain coach from a school in the west had. Lighten up, Packster. This transgression by an unnamed coach from a former team doesn’t warrant being “flabbergasted and disgusted.” Let’s keep it in the “disappointed” but NOT beyond all belief category. 😉
I’m just giddy we are referred to as a “premier” college basketball program. Solid.
Swear to the Almighty, Wulfpack, that was the first thought in my noggin.
My first thought as well. After a second look I’d say they got it right with the” premier college” but we might have to wait and see on the basketball program part.
Grey,
Thanks for the posts. I enjoyed reading them.
I love your optimism and really hope you are right about DD.I write for my own enjoyment. Nice to know somebody reads them.
For the record my main complaint about You…
I hope this is a typo. 😉
I think the impact of the spread/hurry up teams are greatly exaggerated. For every Oregon under Chip Kelly, there are a half dozen Syracuses under Dino Babers. Yeah, they play fast but they shoot themselves in the foot as often as they do something good with their tempo, and that tempo on offense leaves their defense dead tired. A lot of those tempo teams end up giving up lots and lots of points. One could argue it is due to more possessions and plays, but their per play and per possession defensive stats are pretty bad.
Rye, The “hurry up” offense doesn’t mean you necessarily have to snap the ball “in a hurry.” but that you hurry to the LOS and be ready to snap the ball. This prevents defenses from substituting in situational players. We do it all the time as do some other teams.
The defensive personnel are on the field without enough time to sub. Good, well coached defenses switch alignments, etc., but the OC and QB know the personnel they have to work against.
There are advantages to the quick snap with the hurry up offense that have nothing to do with getting in a lot of plays or tiring the other team. Defenses have to make their coverage calls and any line or blitz packages without a lot of time to communicate these sets and schemes. We all have seen blown coverages by good football teams caused by confusion about who was covering what both with passes and runs.
Before we discard the 4-2-5 notice that Green Bay is in essense using the basic concept of the 4-2-5 with Josh Jones as the hybrid defender. That won’t last forever. Some smart OC will figure out how to negate that.
There was at least one other really big run in the second half if I’m not mistaken. There were some good shorter runs and multiple huge runs where they hit the hole and just took off and didn’t get touched till the other end of the field.
Thanks for the second half report. I got like the cat making love to the skunk. I had all that pleasure I could stand and headed for the house after the first half.
Spring games results need to be taken with a grain of salt. Until the video is broken down, you can’t tell a lot about the quality of the play. “not getting touched” doesn’t sound good for the depth of the D assuming the 3rd and 4th lines and backers were in.
Looking at the stat lines for rushing seems like a few of them ran well. For those that saw the game was that 1 or 2 big runs or were they consistently running the ball.
From what I saw in the first half, most of the yardage was on a couple of runs. One by Will Eason and one by Nakia Robinson. Not too concerned one way or the other. Gallaspy and Person were both out and will be back in the fall.
I couldn’t tell about his pass pro but Rhem ran hard and always seemed to fall forward. With 2nd and 3rd string lines in it is very difficult for me to tell whether the blocking was poor or the running was poor.
Vernon Grier showed some real speed when he ran down Will Eason from 10 yards back and caught him on the 5 preventing a score. Eason is reportedly very fast. Eason easily ran the next play in from the 5. Grier returned KOs for Mallard Creek in HS. Was also on 4×100 relay team that won the national HS championship. Don’t know what is holding him back.
By the way, I didn’t see a spring game thread, so I guess this is as good a place as any. I watched the replay with one eye. Looked like a lot of rain, so not the best indicator of things. I did see some good pitches and catches despite the wetness and despite what looked like good coverage.
Anyone have any good observations from the game? (anyone watch it?)I bailed at the half but both your observations coincide with what I saw or think I saw. What was encouraging was the close, tight coverage on those routes that cost us 3 and out so often last year. Chris Ingram has some good coverage plays as did Nick McCloud. The LB’s appeared to be an up stat from last year. Without film to review it’s hard to be sure.
Ted Roof is a much different personality than Hux. He is very vocal in a positive way with the players and I think we are going to see a different performance in our DB scheme. He seemed to be having a blast. Put Hux up in the box and let Roof handle the sideline coaching. Of course they interact and it’s not one doing one thing and the other another.
Over all I’d say the defense as usual is ahead of the offense at this time of year. The competition for RB is going to be fierce. I was disappointed in Erin Collins performance but it’s hard to judge RB’s when they can’t cut on the wet field. A lot of slipping and falling.
Our defense will have a different look this year but honestly we may be better overall than last year. Having 4 future NFLers on the defensive line is great but that also dictates what you do to defend. You pretty much knew what you were going to get with last year’s line. This year I expect more blitz, loops and stunts than we say last year. Grant Gibson passed the eye test.
4-3-3 is an interesting choice. Who needs that 1th guy anyway.
Typo cracking on my typo? 😉
Rick,
ContinuedYou know basketball. Basketball defense is changing to defend the 3-point basket that nearly every team now has shooters to make them.
When you defend the 3 you give the offense more opportunities for 2’s. I see KK is recruiting guys who can leap and who can defend the rim. Without these type guys you are just giving away layups. Football is the same way. Defend the run heavily and you give up the pass. Back off the LOS to defend the pass and you give up the run. When we go to what used to work, I can just about guarantee a good OC will take advantage of what you are doing. Same thing the opposite way.
How you disguise you offensive and defensive intent is critical. Wolfpack recruits are getting to be better athletes. That and their intelligence bodes well for NC State.
Fedora is, and I hate to say this, a brilliant offensive mind. When he came to UNC as HC and chose a defense, he went with the 4-2-5 probably thinking it was the better defense to defend the evolving offenses. A good offensive man would or should know.
When his defense failed to be effective, he blamed his DC, fired him and hired Gene Chizik who went with the 4-3-3 he knew. What was not taken into consideration is that Jimmies and Joes are needed for any defense to be truly effective. Somehow or another the holes defensive personnel weren’t up to the task. The arrangements and schemes didn’t cover the lack of talent.
Many, including some on this board, say that the Wolfpack 4-2-5 is Doeren’s defense and Hux is just doing what DD tells him to do. I doubt that for a number of reasons. Primary reason is personality of Doeren and his character. Doeren has said things about the discussions he and Hux have had and reveals his respect for Hux.
Defense today is assignment football. Do your assignment. If one doesn’t, the defense fails. Occasionally you will see a glaring mistake made by a defensive player on a very good team. When that occurs it is a very good chance that somebody blew an assignment. Offenses shift, put people in motion etc. to cause defensive player to have to make decision and make mistakes.
D
This is more than you, Rick, asked for but I’ve had fun spelling out my thoughts on the evolution of defenses. The same is true of offenses. Drinkwitz is the next generation of OC’s. If he was doing the same thing he learned 5 or 10 years ago, he would be behind the curve.With all the thinking and innovation going on, it’s still the Jimmies and Joes that make the real difference. Position coaches like Ledford and Nielsen coach and train the men in the trenches. Ledford is our run game coordinator and as such is designing the blocking schemes.
The “Stretch Play” is today’s bread and butter play. It IMO is nothing more than an off tackle play with a blocking scheme that gives defenses fits. The runner has more choices than just off-tackle which further makes life difficult for defenses. We are back to position defense. One player out of position can be very costly.
Dumb question. How do you know this?
I’d tell you then I’d have to kill you. 😉
Had he been somewhere that has proven this strength? I am not saying it isn’t a strength (I honestly have no idea) but I was just wondering what evidence you have for this claim.
Now Rick, if we need evidence for claims, we may as well shut down the site. LOL I do know Doeren was DC for Bret Bielema at Wisconsin for 5 years. There was no reason to fix what was working at Northern Illinois and the DC who was there when he got there continued with what he was using.
So obviously I have no hard evidence. I’m not sure where I came up with this notion. I read everything I can get my hands on about the Pack, the football HC, assistant coaches, the recruiting staff, etc. I am also good friends with the guy who was the fullback in the backfield with Roman Gabriel. There’s a veterans’ dinner the night before the spring game. I pick up stuff from him Roger that he hears and from some of his old teammates.
Put it all those bits and pieces together and drew a conclusion. There was no news story. I’m not friends with Doeren or Hux. I have no real inside information.
I’m also 81 now so my memory ain’t what it used to be. In the cobwebs of my mind I vaguely remember something said about this defense and the change at the beginning of Doeren’s 2nd spring practice. I’m sure that Doeren never coached the 4-2-5 before he installed it here.
I deduced that Doeren saw that defense as the defense to best combat the direction offenses were going. I do know that he and Hux worked together to come up with what they thought best at the time.
Change and evolution is the history of football. Offenses create to defeat the current defenses. Defenses then change to stop the offense that is doing the damage, etc., etc., etc. Before the forward pass 7 & 8 man lines were common place. Then 6 man lines with 3 backers and 2 DB’s. Next 5-3 then 5-2 defenses. All evolving to stop the passing game or latest running game craze. Which brings us to the subject at hand, the 4-2-5.
It could have been as simple as Bret Bielema, the Wisconsin HC moving to Arkansas and Matt Canada installing spread offense wrinkles in his absence and putting 70 pts on Nebraska. That would influence Doeren’s thinking after watching Nebraska trying to stop all that with the 4-3-4
I expect we will see more 3 man lines in the future. With our shortage of D-linemen something like a 3-4-4 might be the best defense for us. Who knows? Doeren isn’t going to ask my opinion.
So the answer to your question, I have no evidence for this claim.
This does seem to be the case. I really like Drink and read a great story about a coach who went with our punter on mission trip. It wasn’t even there punters position coach.
It was Aaron Henry, nickel back coach, who wanted to make a difference so he went along with Cole on Cole’s mission along with Kyle Bambard, the kicker who will not quit. Me? I would have transferred out a long time ago. I’ve come to respect Bambard greatly just not as a kicker.
Like I said in my previous post, look at the recruits we got this year. I’ve never seen that since I started following recruiting classes. Yeah, we got a blue chipper or two from time to time but the rest were never all 3 stahs and above. By some services we had 5 four stars, FIVE! I LIKE IT!
All right Yogi, calm yourself. You know being over-the-top enthusiastic is my role on SFN.
We do seem to be catching the next tier of recruits. We are being contacted for visits by the class of recruits who wouldn’t return our calls a season ago. One such recruit has 4 SEC teams in his top 5 PLUS the Pack.
George McDonald is doing a great job in Florida. I’m anxious to see what Ted Roof can do with all his contacts in Georgia. Believe it or not Hux is very well thought by the HS players. Maybe it’s that grandfather image.
Actually Hux is an inspiring human being. I heard him on a video and I wanted to run through a brick wall for him. Being great human beings is the one thing our coaches all have in common. Dave wouldn’t have it any other way.
If DBs are my weakest link, I’m not putting 5 out there every down.
That makes sense, however, 4 years ago when we installed the 4-2-5 we had to start 2 freshmen LB’s. Our DB’s weren’t our weakest link then. In 4 years we didn’t up grade the LB. I’m trusting DD on this one. His long range planning is his long suit and if his study shows we’d best go with 4-2-5, I’m all in.
In 2018 we have Tennessee transfer (R-Jr) Stephen Griffin, 6-3, 211 lbs at the 5th DB, Nickel. That’s near LB size. He’s backed up by Freddie Phillips, 6-1, 205. Doeren is really high on Griffin. IIRC he’s got the speed to cover. I’m trying to stifle my enthusiasm but it’s not easy. Coach talk is we will be blitzing more to make up for the lose of pass rushers.
Being the eternal (or is that infernal or infuriating) optimist that I am, I can see how it’s possible for our defense to actually be more effective even with the loss of our great DL.
I appreciate your comments and the civility of our discussions. I know I piss you off occasionally but it’s who I am.
Debbie Yow has been mentioned a time or 2 in this thread. Let’s bring he accomplishments up to date.
At this moment NC State is 4th in the Directors cup standings. That’s not a typo. 4th in the Nation. I don’t know about you but I never in my wildest dreams thought I’d see us that high. That’s not the final ranking but we will be ranked very high regardless of how women’s gymnastics and baseball turn out for us.
When I see the talent we had on defense it makes me believe we under performed.
The elite talent (4 likely drafted) was only on the defensive line. Our LB were experienced but not elite (0 likely drafted) and our DB’s (0 likely drafted) were okay but a weak spot on last year’s team. The 4 elite D-linemen gave the appearance of talent on defense but we were only talented on the D-line.
Rick, I was afraid a new football thread in April would not get off the ground, thus I picked a “hot” thread from the past. Seems to have worked and a number of folks are enjoying the conversation.
I know I am. 😉
I forgot this. With the popularity of hurry up offenses, defenses can’t make the substitutions to go from 4-3 to 4-2-5 on so called passing downs.
Even when hurry up offenses want to slow the game down, defenses have to be ready.
Rye, Many teams have gone away from the traditional run/down — passing/down options that most of us grew up playing or watching. IOW teams are running on what were traditional passing downs and passing on 1st down or 2nd and short. Not always of course but often enough.
With the shotgun and pistol formations QBs are getting pre-snap reads on defenses, etc. This makes aligning defenses based on down and distance dicey. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve said, “Why in the hell are we running on this down and distance?” when Hines would rip off a first down or TD run..
I would line up safeties at the LOS on the opps WRs. Make contact, hold them up at the line if possible, release the WRs to the CBs and the safeties would be there for run support at the LOS. See why I’m not coaching? LOL
Our WRs were small when DD got here. Now they are as big as LBs. OTH Our CBs last year had trouble covering big receivers and were getting blocked by these same guys. We now have CBs who are big and athletic enough to cover those same big receivers. We shall see if it makes any difference.
.Not sure State shows a true Rover this year. Nickles are for the NFL and Irish urchins.
Thinking of the nickel position as a Rover makes more sense than thinking of the position as a nickel. Put the best effing athlete you have in at Rover, call him The Wolfman and turn him loose. Now there is some complicated, technical defensive thinking for you. 😉
2) I tend to think Roof + Hux will make a good combo, particularly if that means that DD gets away from “coaching” in the games on defense. I like Hux more than most, but don’t like our 4-2-5.
Rye, Glad to see you weighing in on this conversation. I liked your other points and have no adds to them. I also think Hux and Roof will make a good combo.
I don’t know much about our 4-2-5 except that it is generally used to be more effective vs. spread type offenses. I am curious, is it that you don’t like OUR 4-2-5 or that you don’t like THE 4-2-5 generally?
A few more comments about our using the 4-2-5: without having any real or actual knowledge on the subject my guess is that DD determined that the 4-2-5 was the defense of the future and made the bold decision to switch over EVEN THO his and Hux’s knowledge and experience was with the 4-3. I’m pretty sure that cost us in the first 2 or 3 years due to the coaches not being knowledgeable in that defense. How do you coach what you don’t know yourself?
Bottom line? I’d be interested in your thoughts about the 4-2-5 and the “why’s.”
I haven’t coached any football in over 40 years. The last defense I used was the Wide Tackle six. You’ve got to be old to remember that defense. 😉
Wake me in September
In the past 28 or so hours there have been 19 posts to this thread, which is more than ALL other threads combined in that same time period. 19 excludes my posts.
Sorry if I woke you, rthomas44. 😉
Wake me in September
Been reading a 2 year old thread about football and then say, “Wake me in September?” Who are you trying to impress? 😉
I just had the thought, being a defensive coach he in his past hasn’t had much opportunity to develop clock management skills. For defense it’s call time out to stop the clock. Get the ball back and let the offense do it’s thing. Defense has to react to whatever the offense does. Offense gets to call the shots.
Doeren appears to be letting Drinkwitz have more freedom each game. DD is not an old dog but that dog appears to be learning new tricks.
DD passed the test last year. What was missed last year is that the d actually took a step back…hard to believe with the talent we had, but it did. I have been conflicted on Dad’s tenure for a while.
Chop, I’m going to take your post one chunk at a time and treat the whole thing like we are having a conversation over a cold one.
Possibly most of the problems were with the LB’s, the nickel and the DB’s. A little improvement in all areas is possible and I say likely. So what’s going to be different? IMO Ted Roof is going to make a difference coaching the safeties and as coaching Henry as Henry learns to coach the Nickel position. Plus as Co-DC he will be coordinating the CBs and saferies and Nickel’s. This may have been Doeren’s best recruit this spring.
I see lots of good things and I really like what he has done in terms of program building, but he has struggled in getting conference wins and until last year – winning the close games.
Ain’t it so. Doeren seems to be turning more and more of the game coaching to assistants. Drinkwitz is maturing. Hux isn’t near as bad as some seem to think. With Hux in the box and Roof on the field our defensive brain trust is IMO in pretty good shape. Let Doeren do what the really successful coaches do. Let assistants manage the details and DD work the refs and make the decisions assistants are afraid to make like Saban making the QB change in the NC game.
I don’t think he’s out of the woods yet… Maybe Finley continues his growth and emerges somewhere between Brisset and RW and Philip Rivers.
All good stuff beginning to end of this paragraph. I especially like your comment about Emeka Emezie’s passion for the game. I also like that Drink, McDonald or whoever put him in the game. No “seniority” rights here.
Grey – good call on DL coach. He stepped into a great situation. I suspect we lose our OL coach shortly. He had done a fantastic job and I doubt we can keep the 1% at Bay too long, but apparently we did last year. I should be worried about this unit, but I have a lot of confidence in this coach.
Debbie knows that to keep good coaches you have to pay them — not necessarily top dollar but fairly. Our assistants are doing okay at the pay window. What will make a difference is the coaching culture that Doeren has created. He wants his assistants to be home for family time, be able to plan vacations and in general to be happy with their coaching environment.
Ledford and his wife are both from Marion NC, i.e., near both grandparents of their 2 boys, 4 and 1. (Doeren is still here because momma and his boys didn’t want to move away. Of utmost importance keep momma happy. We all know that if momma ain’t happy ain’t nobody going to be happy.) I have no illusions about keeping Ledford as a line coach forever but I’d bet bunches he won’t be leaving for slingsh!t, Louisiana to make a few bucks more any time soon.
Kevin Patrick was very specific about coming here to be in the family atmosphere and coaching culture.
I think it is amazing that we have as little pure turnover (no lateral moves) as we do.
I as much as anybody want to see more wins. I am confident as long as DD continues to do all the right things the right way, the wins will come.
Perhaps culture is one of those words that we overuse, but you hit the proverbial head of the nail. DD can be criticized for losing to ranked teams or not enough overall wins, but instilling a culture of hard work, accountability, and responsibility in order to win will likely be his legacy and probably his biggest achievement.
Jax, IMO Culture is not only overused but often misused. A consensus meaning of culture, as we are using it here, indicates a group “way of life.” Our previous coach had admirable goals — winners in the classroom, in the community and on the field — but having goals is not a culture. Doeren not only has goals but has programs for his players that help instill in his players a “way of life” that promotes fulfilling those goals.
There are coaches and programs that have created a culture similar to some degree to what we are speaking but most programs stop at having goals. The public school west of here doesn’t appear to have anything approaching the culture that Cole Cook speaks about but it undoubtedly has goals.
The culture that Doeren has created here wasn’t created in order to win, however, in order to win gives focus to the development of the culture. IMO a culture that results in winning cannot be created inside the mindset of creating a culture in order to win. People easily detect the phoniness of that mindset.
The (NC State) OOC schedule, most of it at home, is made for easy wins against teams that most Pack fans don’t care to see.
Kind of like Alabama’s OOC — LA Lafayette, Citadel, Arkansas State — wouldn’t you say? The so-called easy OOC is essential to the development of each season’s new team. A difficult OOC game is also now recognized as essential development and to the thirst that fans have for good home games. Thank god we got those cupcakes, ND and USC, off our schedule this season and replaced by WVU, right 13?
Your point of view that winning sufficient games, 8 or 9, and be ranked Top 25 as being mediocre is interesting. Top 25 mediocre? Hmmm
