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Greywolf must be skipping the morning vitamins.
McCallum
I no longer find it hard getting up in the morning. If you get my drift…
We’ve already been told we got us a regular Barry Sanders coming in. What are you guys fretting about?
I’ll tell you what I’m fretting about. Thurman Thomas is going to Ohio State and we have to stettle for Barry Sanders. How’s that for a kick in the gonads?
LOL? Jesus dude
You might be taking all this just a little too darn seriously, dude.
other than that I honest to God dont know what point you are trying to make.
Don’t let that stop you from commenting. LOL
Gott is being paid like a Cadillac and is giving us the ride of a Yugo
I knew we could find a common ground to agree on. LOL
What, pray tell, was wrong with running Fowler, TOB, or Sendek off? Hasn’t the market shown we were 3-for-3 on those??
Actually there was nothing wrong with running off those 3 but once we got a taste of the blood, we start the run off as soon as the replacement arrives. I don’t want to start a sh1t storm but I found the insults, lies, and characterizations of the ones we run off distasteful. I haven’t seen the same character assassination I saw in the past. My biggest laugh was seeing Fowler called a hick by people on the site of an agricultural school. It’s as if we could care less if we ruin someone’s life as long as we run them off. I also think we sometimes run the wrong one off. The chancellor should have been run off before Fowler. Fowler stayed beyond his time. Mary Ann Fox would have given Fowler different orders than that ass Oblinger or what ever his name was.
The biggest problem we have at NC State IMO is we want a Cadillac ride but only want to pay for a Ford. Not only that but we think we deserve a Cadillac ride.
You are a married guy. If you look for faults, you can find reasons why your wife is the worst in your group of friends. If you look for the good points, you will find she is the best. The same is true with Doeren. With a few exceptions, most on this board look for reasons he is the worst. It’s a good thing our FG kicker cost us a few game otherwise we would be hard pressed to prove Doeren is a lousy coach and he will never win more than 8 or 9 games a year.
But I agree 2 of those 3 needed removing. I give TOB a pass because of the health issues his staff had. I also think he was behind the times with recruiting methods. Maybe that should be 3 out of 3.
BTW I have claimed Gott is a bad coach. The 51 point loss confirms that opinion.
Did I miss where you predicted the 50 point loss?
I don’t pick fights but I do often disagree and when I do I give the reasons why. Am I to believe that giving the reasons constitutes fighting? I’m not an expert or Keymaster on message board protocol so help me out here.
So by your estimable expert opinion “any recruit” can be as good as Matt Dayes.
You keep proving my point. Offering an opinion as you say I was doing is very different from saying that on signing day you could say a recruit COULD be as good as Dayes. Perhaps you don’t know the difference between “Could be” and “will be”.
I have been very respectful to your “we are one step from awesome” opinion. What I have learned is you believe you know more than anyone. So thank you for that “lesson”.
You got me there. I do believe I know more about Wolfpack football than someone who only watched 30 minutes last year. You know way more about Wolfpack basketball than I do. I’m waiting to hear WTF is going on in that sport.
Top 75 class. Good grief.
At first glance it does seem bad but a low ranked class that fills needs is better than a high ranked class that duplicates needs with 4-star recruits. One other thing I don’t know for sure about is how JUCO additions affect ratings but we got a JUCO All America defensive tackle Wednesday after Doeren’s pressor. This would put us ranked at about 37th with most of our needs in 2019 & 20 filled.
Don’t let the “star-counters” get to you. We are not nearly as bad off as it might seem.
How the heck this got attributed to StateRed instead of Rick is a mystery to me.
If I remember correctly you were predicting ten wins for the Pack football so you might want to be right about something before you call someone else ignorant.
If you had watched more than 30 minutes of Wolfpack football, you would have known just how close that prediction was to being accurate. I do give all those predictors who said our top was 5 to 7 games credit for knowing in advance about out FG situation.
Now, Rick, tell us about your predictions. Did you predict a 50 point loss to the holes and other such abominations?
Well, I’m relieved now. You watched his recruitment tapes of his couple of runs a game spelling for an OSU recruit deeming him better than Matt Dayes. Alright! Go Dave, Go!
Guess those recruiting experts don’t know what they’re doing.
We were so lucky to land this kid! Who else was in the running for this riding the pine freak of nature? Bama and LSU?
Do you have a learning disability or do you intentionally distort what people say? I didn’t deem him better than Matt Dayes. What I said was he could be as good if not better than Matt Dayes, which could be said about any recruit.
For just a moment I forgot what site I was on. We don’t talk serious sports here, we put down Wolfpack coaches and the job they do. That includes recruiting.
What coach are we going to attack after Avent, Gottfried, Doeren and our AD? Our best attribute is tearing down, not building up. Ah, the glory days of running Sendek, TOB and Fowler off. Fortunately we have others to take their place.
I’m gonna go out on a ledge here and say we didn’t pick up the next Barry Sanders in this recruiting class. Good grief.
..and lets not forget Barry was on the bench behind ALL AMERICAN Thurman Thomas. I don’t think Barry was a 1 star recruit or anything. Hey we got any Thurman Thomas’s hanging around?
Erin Collins got in 5 or 6 runs per game playing behind a running back recruited by Ohio State. I watched some of his recruitment tapes. We are getting a player who could be the next Matt Dayes or better.
I don’t understand your comment about having a Thurman Thomas hanging around. Were you trying to be cute or clever?
My point was a back up HS running back will not get rated highly as Barry Sanders wasn’t rated highly coming out of college. I’m happy our coaches can spot the type player Erin Collins is. Our other RBs should be grateful he isn’t an early enrollee. I expect him to play as a freshman. He’s that good.
Grey – you must have missed the part where I say that he has done a better job retaining them than his predecessor. And that you can build a solid program through player development as long as the vitals are there.
However, I think we can all agree that the biggest reason DD has yet to have a single season that matched the conference median record of both of his predecessors has little to do with talent.
The big test for next year is turning the corner. The DD era tbus far for me has a sendekian feel to it. Incredibly slow progress, but progress nonetheless.
Hopefully year 5 for DD will be like year 6 for Sendek. It was that year where the players learned to win and close out games – and they took the big jump. Some would say the just learned to win like all players do, others would say they overcame their coaches tendency to make those games tighter than they should be – regardless, from that point forward the program was different. The collapses were still around and still happened, but we were no longer a laughing stock.
We get a good shot early. I am actually excited next year. Personally, I think he does it and I am more or less impressed with how he’s methodically building the program. But, it’s time to show the results on gameday.
I quoted your entire post because I think it is so right on. I didn’t miss your other comments I just strongly disagreed with you “similarity” comment. I think the fact that only a few seniors were around to finish their careers from the 2012 class affected my thinking.
I for one am grateful for the kind of program TOB was building. He just fell too far short of achieving his goals. Circumstances dealing with his coaches health may have done him in. Doeren is for sure building on the shoulders of TOB’s classroom, community and field philosophy. I was sorry to see him fail but not sorry to see him go.
You touched on Doeren building a strong program and he is. I think very few know what goes into having a competitive football program this day and time. On the surface it looks the same as always: 11 players to a side, similar rules, same number of coaches, etc., but the unseen structure is amazing. There are coaches (quality control coaches) who only breakdown film (video) and prepare game plans, coaches and technicians preparing discs for positions, etc. Some teams have charts showing what opponents tend to do at any given down and distance. I expect some of Doeren’s stupid sideline coaching his first years was that he so heavily leaned on information prepared for him that he didn’t know what to do without it.
We have several dietitians preparing meal plans to suit individual players needs to change their bodies. Unbelievable isn’t it? Strength and conditioning is a science and each player is given what he needs to prepare him for his position. No guess work here. We are fortunate to have Thunder Dan leading that department.
You have to wonder how Doeren is keeping his coaches. They are all good. It’s more than money or facilities or what “great fans” we are.
This is just the tip of the iceburg. We don’t need a screaming, hyper cheerleader type who knows how to call plays. Today we need a chief executive who has a vision and a plan to accomplish that vision. We need a man who is easy to work with and motivates his staff while instilling loyalty. IMO his treatment of Bambard was critical to Doeren being the kind of man others respect and admire and are willing to follow.
I don’t think much of Dave’s ability to call a game from the sideline but we have coordinators who do have that ability and we will see more and more of that as the future unfolds.
Thanks for calling me on my failure to mention what you pointed out. I didn’t omit that maliciously. I appreciate the civility with which you did it, too. 🙂
Good heavens that is an awful ranking for a class. It appears the “new coach” bump is gone and he has not performed well enough to get players excited about coming here. I thought surely his bubbly personality would bring them in droves. DD has to have a big year next year or the death spiral will start.
BTW I don’t buy the “we don’t need a lot of player this year” argument. Football always needs a lot of players as it takes time for them to develop into college players.
All this from someone who bragged about only watching 30 minutes of Wolfpack football last year. Not smart to show your ignorance about Wolfpack football because you don’t like the coach. The personal insults about Doeren are unbecoming of someone who is a Keymaster on an alleged fan site. OK he’s not as charismatic as our basketball coach but he does know how to coach defense.
You do know that with the late signing by the Juco AA our ranking went up to 37th, right? That’s not particularly good but far from, what was your description, an “awful” rating.
If our football team had a QB equal in talent to our BB point guard, we might go undefeated in 2017. If the BB team played as well as the FB team, you would have to change your underwear. Never in the history of sports has a team done so little with so much as our BB team.
BTW how is the marquee Wolfpack sport doing these days? Any 50 point losses to any arch rivals. Lost any games after leading by 3 with a few seconds to play in regulation? Most Jr Hi coaches know to prevent the hottest player on the other team from getting a shot off to tie it up. Give up a lay-up but don’t let a 3-point basket send you to overtime.
Stay with what you know, Rick, or better still keep quiet and try to learn something.
Thats just spin on the whole thing and you could apply this statement to any school and any class. … but this class is not a good one.
You could apply your statement to every school and class but the star system is also just a spin on the incoming freshman class. In our class of 2014 we have a 4-star OT who can’t crack the starting line-up with a bunch of 3-star guys ahead of him. Another 4-star DE can’t beat out a 2 or 3-star who we thought might declare early and go pro.
Our high character and intelligent recruits beat the tar out of the tar holes in 2014 and 2016. Those tarholes have highly rated (“very good”) recruits and are living proof that stars ain’t all there is to appraising talent.
You might be right about this class but so far I’ve seen nothing you’ve had to say that indicates that it is not a very good one except your opinion. And you don’t seem to want to share what that is based on.
You say that every school could say the same thing about their recruiting class — and they could “say” the same thing. Our recruits are more often than not dual sport athletes who play both football and basketball. Often they are team captains and nearly always have good grades. Exceptions are made but the above criteria are usually the rule.
I do wonder how NC State built a defense with a mediocre DC and low rated prospects but is spoken of by national observers as a top D line. Could it be that the “spin” on our recruits is not just spin? What board monkeys like me and you may think what we may but our bunch of low rated recruits are doing quite well against highly rated recruits. Or didn’t you see the Clemson and FSU games?
IOW dual sport big men don’t usually have the body type as HS seniors to rate 4-stars. After 2 years in a good S and C program, they are often better than those same 4 recruits. Unfortunately for programs such as ours the skill positions aren’t as affected by body type differences.
This class is a good “fill linemen needs” class. Admittedly it wouldn’t be quite so good if the needs were at the skill positions.
Back to your “not a good one” judgement. That judgement will be determined in 2019 and 20, not in February 2017. I’ll listen to your evidence that it is “not a good one” but so far yours is just a typical SFN Wolfpack put down opinion — something at which most of this board is well practiced.
I’ll match my knowledge of instant noodles against State’s ability to hire properly any day of the week.
I’m half full on this one. BB for sure but football is a mixed bag. Doeren isn’t the greatest sideline coach we’ve ever had but he knows more about building a program than anyone we’ve had in a long time, maybe ever. So much goes into building a modern program us old-timers are clueless unless we do a lot of research into the matter.
The thing that makes me scratch my head is not the size, but rather why we didn’t get some bigger pieces if we could be more selective. Looks like we went even more under the radar than usual, like one ordinarily does when filling larger classes.
We recruited ‘needs’ — 6 D-linemen and 3 LBs. Except one JUCO AA from Louisburg College who came out of nowhere, our recruits all have the frames to add good weight i.e., muscle and fit our desire for length and height. These guys will be ready to go 2 and 3 seasons from now when our current crop of linemen are gone. Just damn smart recruiting. Want details? One of these guys grew 5 inches in height in one year. He opted to go to prep school because he and his HS coach knew he wasn’t physically ready for college. IIRC most of these guys are smart and many were team captains. The also played multiple sports in HS — think Russell Wilson.
We are picking up TE recruits that are projected to switch to OL ala Bradford. These are not just “coach-up” projects, these are projections after Thunder Dan does his thing. They are not being conned. They fully expect the physical transformations to occur. I just found out that we keep before and after photos of current players to show recruits that we can change their bodies to make them better players and more productive.
One of the LBs looks ready to play as a freshman. We have 6 or 8 preferred walk-ons and except for a kicker all are 6-2 and weigh over 200 lbs. Our scout teams are going to make our skollies better players. Some may wind up on special teams and some will wind up with skollies. All seem to want to be part of our future.
I can’t go on from memory but this is actually a good class that fills our needs, just not a “stary” class. The commitments we are getting for 2018 and 19 indicate we will be getting the stars we all want.
Being talked to death is a terrible way to die — even if it is the written word — so I’m going to stop here cause I killed 4 people on another board last week. Besides this should give the non-believers plenty to laugh about.
Darn, McCallum. I thought I was going to slide that one by you. LOL
There’s a lot of similarities between the rankings of DD’s last few classes and TOB’s.
The similarities end with the fact that both consisted of HS football players. Many of TOB recruits, like Amado’s never made it on campus. Doeren’s all seem to make it. How many of TOB’s class of 2012 graduated? About 5 or 6. Tough to have seniors and senior leaders on your team if they aren’t in school.
One of our recruits was a second string RB from a FL HS. And we all know about second string RBs, right? I mean what the heck, Barry Sanders was a second string RB at Okie State.
Those of us who think DD’s recruiting is similar to TOB’s are old and are losing our memories. Aside from the numbers DD’s recruits seem to stay on the team. Those who think DD’s and TOB’s rankings were the same probably are remembering TOB’s ranking before signing day. Those rankings fell like a rock when the commits never made it to school.
Some of us need to stick to things we know about like Instant Noodles and other such non-sense.
Those of you who have coached youth sports know the differences between chronological age and physiological age. Looking closely at Doeren’s recruits, many have a huge upside meaning that they are still growing and getting better, not fully grown and about as good as they are going to get. One of our lineman recruits gain 6 inches in height and a corresponding gain in weight in one year. He went to prep school instead of college because of this. He didn’t have a lot of stars in his ranking.
When these young men are Red shirt sophomores they will not be the same players who were rated 2 and 3-star players coming out of HS. As someone has already mentioned our field position players should not be judged on what our FG kicker did. But who cares about that. Any opportunity to put down Doeren is fair game even if it is toro excrement.
I don’t know what the heck is the matter with Doeren. He could have gotten Hodge into school on a trumped up learning disability, gotten him some performance enhancing drugs and somebody to take his exams for him. We don’t care about no stinking integriity. Just win baby.
Graduating from HS I was a 5-star — and that was the number of stars I saw when the principal slapped me on the back of the head.
Defense does not have to be boring. It can lead to easy offense especially if you rebound and fast break.
So right on. Our defense held the holes to 107 points. Wasn’t that exciting?
Here’s hoping Gott saw the light with using players like Kapita more.
Old coaches don’t see the light, they get blinded by it.
I’m appreciative for the progress with this regime..
This is his 6th year. What progress are you talking about?
Is sniffing glue against the law?
McCallum
Neither is sniffing bicycle seats, McCallum, but I don’t advise you doing it publicly. 😉
