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You guys are dreaming again. I don’t see any of this anywhere but here.
It’s out there in other places. Not fired but going to be fired at season end.
well.. as things stand now, this ain’t good for recruiting
We can’t have it both ways. Just the other day we were speculating that Gott staying would kill recruiting. It could actually help recruiting.
With the right guy, it also could be good for keeping what we have.
No coach is a lock to win at NC State but any coach who learned under Coach K is worth checking out. (See my comments on baskets cause by defense are worth twice what baskets scored on offense are worth.)
Greywolf wrote:
If it were my position to select the next coach and it’s obviously not, I would search out and find a coach who as a player played hard-nosed defense.I agree with your comments on character, but not so much with this requirement.
Senior moment, brain fart. Of course you are correct. The coach needs a history of coaching defense or hiring an assistant who coaches good defense. Not playing good defense is an excellent way to lose by 20 to 50 points — or so it seems this season.
I think of it this way. Baskets that are a result of defense are 4 to 6 point baskets — 2 or 3 points denied plus 2 or 3 points gained. Baskets scored on offense are 2 and 3 point baskets. Looking at it this way makes it real easy to see why playing good defense wins games.
I’m almost positive Yow won’t do anything until after end of season but I do think she’s got the balls to fire Gottfried then. If were Yow I wouldn’t protect him because I hired him, I would cut his nuts off after I deep fried them and have them for lunch. He has caused her untold grief and aggravation. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned (or fvcked over as is the case here.) Gottfried was given the opportunity of a life time to coach in what was at the time — before he helped drag it down — the premier basketball conference in the nation. She and NC State have given him everything he needed to succeed and he failed. Don’t be surprised if she takes it personally.
Fowler was previously the AD from Middle Tennessee State or something like that who was in over his head at NC State. I don’t know why Mary Ann Fox hired him but I’d bet it was and interim solution to something with no expectation of leading us to prominence in the ACC. The professor who succeeded her was just that a professor with little care about athletic excellence and Fowler stayed on in a job he was ill prepared to succeed in. Not the case with Debbie Yow.
We will never know nor should we know but I’d bet that she is doing what we are doing — vetting the coaches we are interested in and talking to agents of those coaches to find those who are mutually interested. Some time after the coach we settle on is eliminated from the NCAAT, we will hire our next coach. Meanwhile expect her to publicly support Gottfried. It will be annoying but it’s the way the big boys play the game.
I think we are confusing talent with scoring ability. We, both Gottfried and us fans, think because we have a bunch of players who can score that we have the makings for a good basketball team. I have no stats, evidence or any such proof for what I am about to say but here goes: The talented players with the character to play good defense are being picked over by the Dukes, Holes and other teams with the reputation muscle to recruit just about anybody they want. The next level of teams are recruiting players with slightly less talent but with the character to play defense.
Our record is not embarrassing to me, but our lack of work ethic as identified by effort and willingness and maybe desire to do the dirty work on the court. I don’t have the stomach to watch but I read about failure to block out, hustle back on defense, letting the opps have open shots, etc., that indicates lack of work ethic.
I don’t know if Archie would excel here — I’m not interested in success, interested in returning to the excellence of the Everett Case days. If it were my position to select the next coach and it’s obviously not, I would search out and find a coach who as a player played hard-nosed defense. One who still had the burns on his legs and body from diving after loose balls, one who had assistant coaches whose bodies were grooved and scarred from boxing out.
From what I’ve heard our past 2 coaches have somewhat lacked in character. Let’s not make that mistake again. Kids with character are not going to come play for a coach who does not have character. And it takes character to give up your body for the team. Players with character find ways to win or bust their arses trying.
Our other revenue coach isn’t very smooth with the media and doesn’t always make good side line decisions but he has character and he attracts recruits with character. Those recruits may not have the “stars” we all want but they have the character to do what it takes to develop their bodies and skill sets to be “stars” type players. I’m betting we start to attract the “stars” recruits with character who will continue to become better players through hard work.
I don’t mean to get on a football rant which I can do but intil we hire a basketball coach with character and work ethic himself, we are fools to expect anything but what we are getting. There are exceptions such as Ole Roy but Coach K has character and work ethic. He was a friend to Coach V when befriending “V” wasn’t popular. “K” has won my respect even if I hate Duke. Hasn’t happened at the Dump on the Hump.
And if we do hire a coach with character, it isn’t going to turn around in 3 or 4 seasons for sure. It’s not likely to really turn in 5 or 6 seasons but we will see a different NC State team on the court. I don’t think we will be embarrassed as we have been with Gottfried. I expect we will see “character” wins like our last 2 football games. No folding the tent because circumstances are breaking bad.
Let’s start with integrity whoever the coach is and build from there. NC State deserves no less. There may be some here who don’t care about respect and character and who would do things the Carowhiner Way if it meant winning. I’m not in that camp and hope I die before I get senile enough to get there.
For the record, I am QUITE supportive when it is merited, and I don’t think I am in any way unfair about how I judge coaching performance.
Just be sure I understand you: are you saying that you are QUITE supportive when a coach wins 5 or more of his conference games but not supportive when he wins less than that? (I picked 5 conference games because that seems to be the demand.)
Also, I get that NC State football is a challenging project.
But he’s got to have a very good season on the field and on the recruiting trail to make up for the backsliding, and convince me he’s really turned the corner and is capable of more than just minor bowl appearances.
I think that’s completely fair.
That is completely fair. No question about it.
I for sure hope he/the team learned something from that trip to Greenville. I wish we played ECU early every year so that we could learn to play teams that point to our game and get fired up to play us. “This is their Super Bowl” is the worst excuse for a loss I know.
We got out coached and out played when BC came to town. That’s going to happen sometimes. I do think it’s foolish for the team or the fans to assume any game is a sure win.
BC has a very good defense and when you have good defense, anything can happen.I’m okay with salvaging a season in the last game or 2. Those last games count as much as the early games. We learned one thing about our team — they don’t roll over and play dead.
IMNSHO When it all settles down, Doeren is going to win and be here for a long time. I wish I could say the same thing about Gottfried. Doeren is working to establish a winner where there is no real winning tradition to support the effort. Even Dick Sheridan never won a conference championship back when the ACC wasn’t the football power conference it seems to be now.
Can’t say that about Gott. He’s got it all going for him — the PNC, practice facilities, tradition, and now special housing accommodations for the players — the whole enchilada. He’s about out of excuses.
We rolled the dice with Case, Edwards, Holtz and Valvano and won. We rolled ’em with Kiffen, Reed, Herb, and Lowe and lost. Amato, O’Cain, TOB and while they were okay, they still couldn’t get us over the hump. Apparently we lost with Gottfried but we should have known based on his Alabama stint.
Now we’ve rolled them again with Doeren and it appears to many that we’ve lost again although there are some who are willing to give him the full 5 years. Personally, I believe that Doeren knows what he doing as far as building a football program is concerned. He doesn’t appear to recruit particularly well yet both lines are deep and stout while the rest of the team is adequate or better with one exception.
If we oust him now, somebody else is going to get the benefit of his 5 years as HC of a P-5 team in a very strong football conference. Gott is different in that he has been around plenty long to have learned. Had Gott used some of his money to hire some sharp young coaches and let them coach, he could have retired here with everybody talking about what a great coach he was. Alas, t’was not to be.
I like this site. You can really rile up the natives saying anything positive about the football team. lol giggle, giggle, ho, ho, ho. Smirk, smirk, smirk.
How are we ranked on fourth down plays run into the wind in away games played against Coastal division teams?
Just a shade better than our basketball team is from the free throw line in the second half against all comers. 😉
Are we second in the nation in anything positive with the roundballers? Oh yeah, triple doubles in losing efforts.
Mr. Grey, you make my work so much easier.
Well, I for sure take that as a compliment. Or do we complement each other? 😉
BTW did you see where our defense was second in the nation in first down yards per game given up? It things like this that have me be delusional about 2017.
I’m preaching to the choir I know but we have one bad-ass, 2-deep DL coming back this year — mostly seniors.
I don’t know. It’s an extremely rare occurrence for the lead up to a FB or BB season NOT TO be full of delusional projections. No matter how may times they fall flat, those uber-optimistic projections seem to come twice a year, every year.
Are you including the bookies who currently have State a 7.5 point favorite over SC as being delusional?
This site thrives on pessimism, complaints and put downs.
Lets wait and see how the ticket sales do before we anoint DD as the next Bill Walsh.
No matter how you try and build him up in the post above his best season to date in conference is 3-5. TOB had a better record and was fired for it. So yeah I would think the masses can see through this charade. He gets next year for sure but I would bet dollars to donuts only a handful of folks really think he can break through and get 8 regular season wins.
Thank you for proving my point about “pessimism, complaints and put downs.”
Excitement about the future isn’t built on checking the record book for past history. Your comment about TOB being fired for his record only shows just how little you know about his dismissal. TOB was fired for (as BJD would say) for crapping the bed with his best team in 2012 AND for the miserable effort put into recruiting.
But go ahead. Look in the rear view mirror if that’s what turns you on. You can cite the past to prove your point about the future if you like, that’s the SFN way.
FYI right now State is a 7.5 point favorite over South Carolina. Why is that? Could it be because the people who make their living appraising football teams look at what’s going on in the present, not at what went on in the past.
BTW I neither like nor dislike Dave Doeren. I like that he seems to know what it takes to build a quality football program. I do like the staff and coaches he continues to assemble here. I like the depth he’s building and I like the quality of young men he’s recruiting. I like the facility improvements we are making to be more attractive to recruits.
In contrast to our neighbors we won’t have scholarship players ganging up onn and beating up walk-ons like a bunch of hoodlums. He also won’t be strutting around showing off his abs while swilling and shilling for Red Bull.
BTW I don’t particularly like some of his sideline decisions but I didn’t like some of Seattle’s and Atlanta’s decisions in their Super Bowls either. (Go ahead. Make something out of that.)
I know you like DD but you have to admit he hasnt built any excited around the program.
No buzz on this site but plenty of buzz on another, much bigger site. The quality and depth of the DL, the development, depth and quality of coaching on the OL, emerging WR core, the small number of seniors from the starting line up graduating, etc., has many people excited about 2017. Coaches are leaving for promotion to coordinators of other programs or moving up to coach in the NFL. Openings are being filled by good, young coaches — and very quickly too. Perhaps we don’t see Doeren as a good HC but he is apparently seen that way by the coaching fraternity.
There is a lot of buzz on blogs by professionals and on radio such as Steve Logan’s show.
So, you are right there is no buzz about the football program but that is only true on this site. This site thrives on pessimism, complaints and put downs.
Are you joking or are you serious that you can’t figure this out?
Thanks for catching the incorrect spelling of complementary. It was NOT a COMPLIMENT but a COMPLEMENT.
I wondered if hiring Lutz was a compliment to Gott… or something like that.
The quotation marks had me question the intent. I’m not the grammar or spelling police type. Had the quotation marks not been there, I would not have raised the question. I too thought the two were complementary.
I’m not much of a basketball fan these days — not since V’s days as our coach, so I don’t read or watch much and don’t remember much of anything I do read. You know, CRS. Sorry if I sounded “corrective.”
Football is a different deal for me. I’m surprised no one has commented on Coach Nielsen leaving and going to the Saints as their DL coach. All most the same day we hired another DL coach so it wasn’t a “sneak off” affair. We will miss him but the new hire seems to be well liked by those who know that sort of thing.
We’ve lost four coaches recently — 2all 2 last year and 2 this year — to promotions or better paying jobs. No coaches are splitting to get away from Doeren. Canada was fired, not leaving on his own.
DY answers every email she receives and if she has to stay late to do her other duties, so be it. Her job is to support the coaches until they are no longer the coaches. She has stated time and time again that coaches and the job the do will be addressed at the end of the season.
Of course she wants Gott to succeed. Of course she isn’t going to be negative in discussing the job he is doing — not with us anyway. She does meet with both the football and basketball HC during the season and have “heart to heart” talks with them.
She says she appreciates us expressing our opinions and I believe she does but don’t look for her to knuckle under because we argue back with our opinion. IOW she does not appreciate more of the same.
If the answers sound canned it might be because she has received the same opinions before and answering those emails is redundant for her — she’s answered them before to others.
This is not her first rodeo. She’s heard it all before.
I understand wanting to “punish” Gottfried by firing him now but who are you going to replace him with?
You got to give him credit for one thing, he’s taken the pressure off Doeren for now. If Gott was losing close games but beating the holes, I wonder how we would be? But he’s not so I’m taking Rick’s way out of the pain. See ya!!
Lutz was initially billed or introduced as a solid “compliment” to Gottfried.
Is this some kind of joke I don’t get or did you mean “complement”?
I’m wondering where the DB’s are. Personally, I thought our defensive secondary was the weak spot in our team. So a recruiting class that’s supposed to fill needs has 2 DB’s? I don’t get it.
Our secondary definitely needs improving but not by recruiting freshman. We needed freshmen who could play in 2013, but that is not the case in 2017. IOW recruiting for needs by a team that is building depth is not recruiting freshmen who can play right away.
We will be graduating most of our D-line after 2017 and 18. Our LBs will be seniors in ’17. Filling needs occurs for those depleted positions a couple of years away.
Our secondary wasn’t weak. One corner was drafted, the other while not great was not weak. We have a good corner who will be a Jr. and a better corner who will be a soph. One red shirt freshman is highly regarded and will play. Our safety situation is deep.
We also have recruited a RB or 2 who could convert to corner or safety. Not all positions are in the same situation need wise every year.
First score comes in the 2nd quarter for Hotlanta. Under looking promising with the total set at 59 (highest ever for a SB).. although that number came down to 56.5 last I saw right before kick off.
Matt Ryan owes all his success to TOB. No worries, DD got the 2nd coming of Barry Sanders coming in as a HS bench warmer…. 5’9? and 180 pounds. (Much love Greywolf, seriously. I can appreciate an optimistic outlook in the face of negativity.)
Okay, I’ll admit to being an optimist. 😉 The kid is 6-1, 200 lbs. He’s quick with moves and very fast. Let’s hope I’m right and we pull a horseshoe out of our arse.
Little league basketball team finished 11-0 today.
And hell yes, we play damn defense.
Dam, Mc. I didn’t know you played little league basketball. I take back those crappy comments about instant noodles. 🙂
Getting old sucks.
I used to think that then I thought of the alternative. 🙂
I watched the clip and wondered what the heck the male official was doing at the end. Game is over. Is it his job to keep the winning team from celebrating. The female official looked professional BTW.
He might be a CEO type that once the ball gets kicked in the air needs to take a Wooden like approach and let the players and assistants execute the plan.
This is IMO spot on and as near as I can tell this is the trend with Doeren. We also need to keep playing to score deep into the 4th quarter instead of burning 10 minutes of clock when we have a substantial lead.
Greywolf must be skipping the morning vitamins.
McCallum
I no longer find it hard getting up in the morning. If you get my drift…
