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I’m saying 9 wins. 8 would exceed most expectations. 7 is reasonable. 6 is unacceptable. Back to 9 wins — should we win 9, I believe I’ll have another taste of that Holy Water.
If we win more than 9 games, heck, I’ll be having more that a taste of that Holy Water. More than 10 and you’ll find me face down in the font. 😉 😉 😉
We true believers can get GoldenChain to give us a full immersion baptism in the stuff. LOL
Whiteshoes67, Thanks for a classic example of looking in the rear view mirror to see where you are going in the future.
Opinionated negativity does not make a view objective. It’s okay to have opinions and it’s okay be negative, but your claim of objectivity, is a bit much.
Based on the schedule I don’t see how we win more than 7 games this year. 2 possibly 3 losses out of Louisville, FSU and Clemson. 2 Gimme games in Furman and Marshall. The rest are 100% toss up games. @ND @ Pitt @WFU @BC. With a home game against Clemson between them. Thats a tough road to be banking on wins.
Ordinarily I would nod my head at this post. That’s a tough row to hoe, with a nod of the head to Bill’s garden. However…
Belief is its own reality. Whether that’s belief in your coaches, your teammies, or yourself, it’s the last wall to bust to win on a regular basis.
I’m all in on the coaches and players believing in 2017.
And you can tell I’ve been into the Holy Water tonight!lol
Fortified by a little taste of the Holy Water I going out on the skinny branches and say we win… Let’s back up just a bit. We can beat the real Carolina in our opener. Our first test is FSU. IMO How we play FSU will tell us about the season to come. We play FSU toe to toe without the faltering in the 4th quarter, I’m going to get excited about the rest of the games. Play well vs the Sems and win a few of the toss up games and a good season is possible. Win 2 out of 3 vs the big 3 and we have a very good season. My only hope is we don’t step on our d!ck and lose one we could win.
I’m saying 9 wins. 8 would exceed most expectations. 7 is reasonable. 6 is unacceptable. Back to 9 wins — should we win 9, I believe I’ll have another taste of that Holy Water.
Belief is its own reality. Whether that’s belief in your coaches, your teammies, or yourself, it’s the last wall to bust to win on a regular basis.
Glad you didn’t include fans. We’d never make it.
Why don’t Episcopalians play chess?
They can’t tell the difference between a bishop and a queen.
You’re talking high church. We low church folk don’t have no queens. LOL
Not knowing how to tell a bishop from a queen ain’t the only thing they have in common with the Catholics.I’ll go out on a limb and predict we lose to FSU, Clemson and Louisville. Doesn’t leave much room for error if you’re looking for that break through season.
Wow! That’s some limb. If we lose do we count them as upsets for FSU, Clemson and L’ville?
You are wrong about the Methodist. I’m Whiskeypalian. 😉 And if you are riding a motorcycle without a windshield, don’t smile.
Sorry, but I don’t see how you can claim to know where we are going and that your rosy view is something other than a prediction. Doesn’t matter I guess, since we’ll see what we’ll see soon enough.
VaWolf82.s
I don’t claim to know where we are going. I do claim to be looking to see what information might be out there that offers some indication of how we are going to do. Think of it this way, odds makers at sports books do it all the time. It’s how they set the original spread. You could say it’s a prediction and I suppose it is in a way. It’s rosy if the signs indicate to me that it could be rosy.Right now most people in the business of rating teams — bloggers, magazines, etc. — are predicting a ‘rosy’ 2017. One good sign to me is our HC is rated so poorly. We must have a good team to overcome that albatross. 😉 Just kidding.
I would be interested in hearing what some who think we are not going to do well have to say about the 2017 team. But please not how we did in 2013.
McCallum in a weak moment of seriousness, did a good job of looking out the windshield and reporting what he saw. He wasn’t optimistic or pessimistic. We are inexperienced and have holes to fill on our secondary, our kicking is suspect and we are weak in coaching. That’s what he saw that wasn’t so bright. He also IIRC offered an opinion that our D-line play could compensate for our Secondary deficiencies.
That’s from a usually IMO negative McCallum. I might have to change my opinion. I don’t see the secondary quite as inexperienced as Mac does but that is just difference of opinion. I’m a little more optimistic our transfer kicker will turn out. As you say, we are going to have to wait and see.
You are the ‘stats’ guy aren’t you? Thanks for doing what you do. Makes analyzing the team in mid stream fun. And thanks for joining in the conversation. Feed back is always welcome when it’s given without a dose of smart-arse to go along with it.
rye,
In some post I wrongly denied starting the “past” conversation. I did mention the pertinence of the past first. Sorry about that. 🙂
GreyCute analogy, but it falls apart upon closer examination. Before nearly every FB and BB season, there are optimistic projections made that soon wither once the season starts.
I beg to differ. What falls apart is your misconstruing the “rear view mirror/windshield” analogy to mean Projections. My cute analogy has nothing to do with projecting the future but instead… well, read it in my actual post pasted below.
Sports psychologists have a concept
calledI call “complete the past.” One successful coach I know of actually uses the Rear view Mirror/Windshield analogy in the first team meeting after the previous game to complete the past. He writes what happened — the good and the bad — inside a rear view mirror he draws on the white board. After acknowledging and covering “the past” they declare the past complete and move to the white board with the “windshield” on it. The windshield is symbolic of looking forward to what they are going to do to get ready for the next game. Over simplification I’m sure but filing the past in the past drawer gives a different future than filing the past in the present drawer (being mindful of the past).There is one piece missing from the above analogy and that is being informed by the past. Even looking to the future we are foolish to ignore the past, i.e., being informed by the past. The Wolfpack spring practices were designed looking to the future after being informed by the past. Mistakes in the future are not a result of ignoring the past but are a matter of not being informed by the past. We have to get the past out of our future or we are doomed to repeat it. This is true in all of life — our businesses, our marriage, our entire lives.
We mistakenly think that we can ignore the past and it will go away or we can forget the past. Look and see. How much of your past that you want to forget have you actually forgotten? Not much I’d bet. The best we can do is acknowledge the past and declare it complete. Acknowledging the past is telling the truth about it. Without acknowledging the past we cannot declare it complete and move on.
That is what the coach above is doing with his team by examining what’s in the rear view mirror — acknowledging the past. Having done this he can declare the past complete and move on to preparing for the future. The future he prepares for is not given by the past but is informed by the past. Whew!!
Ever wonder why some coaches are successful and others are not? You think it’s because coach “X” knows plays coach “Y” doesn’t know? Or one coach calls better time outs than the others? You can hire coaches for thousands instead of millions if football knowledge is all it takes to be a successful head coach. Being informed by the past, not being used by the past is one of the difference makers in determining success or failure. (I’m pretty sure wolfpack92owen will see this as my way of talking in nonsensical circles. Discounting that which we don’t understand is a way of coping with it. I think Albert Einstein talks in nonsensical circles. And no, I’m not comparing myself to Einstein. but embarrassingly so with wolfpack92owen.)
If in my posts you see projections, either I badly made my point or you badly misconstrued what I wrote. My occurrences of “looking out of the windshield” are attempts to see where we are going, not predicting where we are going. My analogies of looking in the rear view mirror are just that — people looking in the rear view mirror to see where they/we are going. I don’t steer my car looking in the rear view mirror, I steer it based on what I see looking out of the windshield. Likewise when I look to see where the Wolfpack is going in the future I don’t look at the past even though I am informed by the past.
– Grey and I are going to have to agree to disagree regarding special teams. I see nothing special about our kicking game. Our coverage on kicks is the high point, and that is definitely good. I still like the Beamer plan.
I don’t know if we disagree on as much as you might think. Our differences tend to be point of view. I know I tend to review the past and declare it complete and then look at the future and what we are doing to impact it. IMO you put more emphasis on the past performance and how it predicts the future. Either way the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
Don’t know if you were at the spring “game” or not but Special Teams were emphasized. Entire sections of the practice were devoted to special teams with emphasis on blocking. The special teams players were divided into teams who competed for some reward.
The Super Bowl was a look at how kick-offs may be in the future. High kicks to somewhere between the G-line and the 5 with coverage stopping kick returns short of the 20. That could explain why we were able to put it out of the end zone early on but were short later in the season.
We will not know about the actual kicking until we see it in games. Our kicker was very good in practice last year and we all know what that meant. Good in practice, not so good in games makes coaching decisions especially tough, not a lot to base decisions on.
Not sure but I think we have a preferred walk-on who is reportedly a good kick-off man. At least Doeren is addressing the needs, not just hoping.
I’m solidly in your camp about the coaches. Hux has been a steadying influence with the young defensive coaches. I don’t like the idea of firing a guy who has done so much for the team. So… I hope he retires fairly soon and Doeren attracts a young, innovative DC like Brent Venables at Clemson.
I know I’m repeating myself here but Doeren has said that our O-line couldn’t block our D-line last year and this year they are very competitive. Don’t want to read too much into that but with our D-line that sounds like good news. Good job, Coach Ledford. In my response to McCallum’s team analysis I reported on what I saw our DBs doing this past spring. Could be the influence of that new safties coach, Aaron Henry. Wouldn’t that be cool?
Darn, rye. Wish we were chatting about this over “liquid refreshments.” Looking forward to you next thoughts. And when is Mr. DOG weighing in?
Mac, Hard to argue what you say about the bottom line. I’m just a guy who is interested in Wolfpack football and want to talk, speculate, etc. Nothing much to talk about if it’s restricted to December 2017. Not disagreeing with you at all, just stating my intent and purpose for discussion now, not later.
BTW I really did think your assessment of the Pack’s strengths and weaknesses was spot on. I was both surprised and pleased by your positive overall view of the team in 2017. My comments were intended to add to, not detract from your post.
Grey
by that incredible logic you are saying Scottie Montgomery and Steve Add are better coaches than DD. It doesnt work like that dude.
You must think the readers of SFN are incredibly dense to imply that 5 coaches are all better than the 59th rated coach they couldn’t beat. It doesn’t work like that dud. By your logic Doeren is a better coach than Sweeney, Fisher, Patrino and Richt. After all they did beat him which seems to be your incredible logic that he is the better rated coach.
Montgomery’s team was better prepared than Doeren’s team. FWIW I do think Addazio actually did a better coaching job than Doeren in 2016 but all I have to go on is his W/L record and his game vs the Pack. I don’t have the secret logic that you and CBS Sports have.
Standard middle of the road bunch, they put in their hours but so does everyone else. If they are “special” it should have shown itself by now.
George McDonald? I think he invented a new type handle for the commode, not the faucet.
One poster here points out how recruiting is trending in the wrong direction. McCallum, you point out how well our various position players are situated then say in essence our coaches are ordinary. Leaves me wondering how they got to be doing so well.
Half the coaches are recent hires — 2 will be coaching their first season with the Pack and 2 will be coaching their second season this fall. All I said was I had confidence/faith in the coaches.
You judge coaches by how they are “roaming the sidelines and press box.” I judge by performance on the field. IMO The failure of the kicker doesn’t negate otherwise good coaching.
This is very straight forward and IMO right on the money.
The breakout:
O line- significant returning players with lots of snaps. Question mark at center
Te- does State throw to the TE?
wideouts-depth and some talent. Harmon and Louis, nice combination.
Running backs-Samuels and Hines in space, Gallaspy in gaps
QB-experience and options
Not displeased with that side of the ball
D line-should be loaded. Talent and lots of depth, ability to continuously rotate quality throughout the game.
Linebackers-Moore and Fernandez both solid and decent, nothing off charts but not an issue
D backs-limited experience with some holes. Strong effort by d line should take some pressure off them
Kicking-punter excellent, automatic 3 points ain’t happening
Coaching- no faith
Just a few comments:
O-line- yes, center is a question mark and one with several viable solutions
TE- State rarely throws to TE. Our TE is primarily a run-blocker.
DB- These guys could surprise us. In the spring “Game” we played mostly press coverage. In some circumstances we were rolling our boundary CB into what would normally be a safety’s position and using a safety to fill and cover on the field side. This should help out our coverage on short passes that hurt us so much last year. We are putting defenders where defenders need to be. The “safety” corner can cover the deep ball to that side while the safeties are free to help out underneath. I know. TMI
Kicker- I’m not selling out the FG kicker just yet. The grad transfer could be a nice find.
By “Coaching- no faith” I must assume you mean head coach. Otherwise I’d say I have more confidence/faith in this group of assistant coaches than any since Chuck Amato’s first year — and only his first year. I’ve said enough already about the HC. He is the one who put all this together. With this array of talent we may not have as many controversial decisions to make. I don’t do a lot of ‘hoping’ but this is one thing I am hoping for.If we have a shakiness in our coaching set-up IMO it’s the OC, Drinkwitz. He’s inexperienced but we have veterans around him so he’s got support. George McDonald was assistant HC at Syracuse and has OC experience.
CBS Sports just ranked Doeren 59th, so there’s that.
CBS Sports just rated 5 coaches that Doeren beat last season as better then he is. That’s worth repeating. Doeren beat Fedora, Kelly, Clausen, Baber and Mason in 2016 yet these yahoos don’t respect Doeren because he has had trouble beating FSU, Clemson, L’ville and EweNC who they have to play every year. Three are top 15 teams and one a top 25 team.
I don’t like that we haven’t won many conference games any more than the next fan, but rating 5 coaches Doeren beat as better than he is? WTF?
its posts like this one that makes me think you are just not very bright
Just when I say I enjoy discussing Wolfpack football with you, you throw out another one-line, spit-in-the-face post insulting my intelligence. Aside from picking the low-hanging fruit, do you realize how bad that makes you look?
You don’t have to be bright to see that these yahoos rated
45 (I left out Derek Mason) coaches above Doeren after he beat them in 2016. That’s 5 coaches he beat on the field in 2016 they rate as better than Doeren. What are the smoking?They rate Kelly in the top 25. Why? That idiot threw the ball over and over in a hurricane. Even a dumbass like me can see that’s not top 25 coaching. Even ole number 59 knew better than that. With the best player in the country, he is 4-8 for the year. Top 25 my not too bright arse.
The 59th rated coach in P-5 football’s team is preseason 24th in one national poll. How does a coach who is the 59th best out of 65 do that? Los Vegas thinks dummy Dave’s team is about a TD favorite over a much better rated coach at South Carolina.
They needed excuses to rate some coaches lower than others. Besides they knew that rating Dave low would be popular on the Wolfpack sports message boards.
I trust your comments about the qb commit. I dont watch film on high school juniors as I dont think that one can take anything away from it. Glad he is doing well at camps. But in short this kid is at minimum 3 years away from contributing to this program. And a lot can happen between now and then. Talk on the other site…
Nearly all coaches watch HS Jr. game film. Recruiting starts well before an elite player is in his Sr. year of HS. Leary will be ready to start his soph year after Finley and McClendon graduate. That fits your 3 year projection.
As for talk on the other site… the nervous nelly’s are afraid the big boys are going to take our recruits away from little ole us. Too bad. How sad. But really, how often does that actually happen? We win some and we lose some. We took Frasier when he was committed to FSU and held off Alabama when Nick Saban himself did and in home visit. Like it would have made a difference either way. 🙁
At some point you simply run out of time. You can keep saying these things take time yada yada yada but at some point he has to win more than 3 games in conference.
I don’t think I’ve said things take time. What I have said is Doeren started with nearly an empty cupboard and I’ve said we hit a bump in 2016 — missing field goals, dropping interceptions, etc., losing games which we could have won — which would have put 2016 right on schedule for resurrecting a program.
Fedora started with
Black Santa’srecruits and has had an up and down tour of duty. True it has been more up than down, yet he is only 50/50 with the Pack. We will find out what kind of coach he is without Davis’s recruits and a first round NFL pick for a QB.
I’ve been clear in my posts that IMO Doeren needs a good season in 2016. I don’t have numbers like some here who can guarantee he will be fired if… What I can guarantee is that Debbie Yow will sit down with Dave Doeren at the end of 2016 to discuss the future of Wolfpack football and the direction it’s going. I can almost guarantee that no pig farmers or other fat cats will be in that meeting. I trust Debbie Yow to make a sound decision and I expect that Chancellor Woodson will back her decision 100%.
I think we will have a good season including winning more conference games than we lose. I can’t tell from your post which way you are leaning but I do get you are supportive of the football program.
I enjoy discussions like this and hope we have more in the future. 😉
CBS Sports just ranked Doeren 59th, so there’s that.
Dave Doeren (50): Doeren just doesn’t receive a lot of respect in our rankings, as he has fallen for the second straight year despite going to three straight bowl games. I’m guessing the reason is that he’s 9-23 in ACC play
LOL I love how those guys (and you guys) keep looking to 2013 to rate a coach in 2017. No mention of Doeren’s Wolfpack beating 4 coaches rated above him — Clausen, Babers, Kelly and Fedora.
I suppose Chip Kelly’s 4-8 record should put him in the top 25. Go figure.
I like DD and think he is doing many things right from a program management perspective. He is a coach I would send my child to play for (unlike Fedora, Petrino, Jimbo Fisher, etc.).
Eventually though, the results have to be shown on the field. Hopefully it starts this year and NC State is rewarded with its version of Frank Beamer. Our fans have certainly hoped for this while being plenty patient with coach after coach, hoping they are seeing “seeds of greatness.” We’re long overdue for one of those to actually take root and blossom.
rye, Thanks for the conversation over the last several weeks. We for sure agree that it is time for some wins and lots of them.
BTW We have 3 commitments who by one rating service or another are 4-star recruits. Our 4th recruit is one of if not the best high school kickers in the country. Of particular note is our QB commitment. He has been declared MVP of every Elite11 quarterback camp he’s been to. These are coaching camps and it is said that there has not been a lot of coaching for him — not needed. He is being the Pied Piper of New Jersey recruiting top rated players to join him at NC State. Reports from the camps are that he is hitting throws all over the field and leading receivers perfectly on deep throws.
There has got to be a negative, right? Well, he is only 6-2, 185 pounds. But, get this, he’s not playing baseball so he can hit the weight room and pick up some muscle for football.
He is solid NC State, wearing an NC State hat and flashing the wolfie sign at one of the Elite11 camps. He has told Doeren and Drink and McDonald he is solid committed, no chance of him going anywhere else.
Remember when Gallaspy, Hines, Roseboro, McGirt and others at the NC/SC Shrine game decided to go to NC State together? That kind of relationships are being developed in several places. Enough, enough.
Go Pack!!
He certainly has a way of talking in nonsensical circles.
Don’t let your inability to understand the complexity of my post fool you into thinking they are nonsensical or circular.
ryebread and a few others may not agree in part or totally with what I say but they understand it.
Your one sentence posts remind me of some paper classes at another school just west of here. Who’s writing you posts for you? McCallum?
Grey: I hope and sincerely want your bullish position to be rewarded. That is the best possible outcome for NC State and our collective enjoyment of the entertainment business that is NC State football.
rye, I am bullish in my regard for our football program for the reason you state below: “Many of the pieces are in place.” It is time to reap the rewards of a solid football program. While I don’t think the W/L record in our previous seasons under Doeren is indicative of where we are program wise, it is time to have the ultimate measure of success to come to fruition. I think 2017 is just the beginning of something beyond most Wolfpacker’s dreams.
As Raider Al said, “just win baby.” This season will tell us a lot. Many of the pieces are in place and seemingly the most of the DD era.
Al Davis is known for his “Just win, baby” but that was not the philosophy that he coached and managed by. He told coach Hue Jackson: ‘Hue, don’t believe in plays. Believe in players and eventually the players will make plays for you.’
Davis was a strong advocate for civil rights and would not allow his players to travel to cities where the white and black players had to stay in separate hotels. Those who think “Just win, baby.” represented Al Davis’s fundamental philosophy are sadly mistaken.
rye, we’ve had many points and counterpoints discussed in this thread. I am bullish on NC State but I hope I haven’t been boorish in stated my position.
Go Pack!!
Grey, some quick thoughts:
– You brought up the past, so I answered why it is pertinent.That’s not quite accurate. You brought up the past. I just commented on it.
I’ve said on this thread DD is probably here as long as Yow is. If so, then so be it. Any coach we hire is going to be a gamble. But with a coach that really hasn’t proven anything, there’s one eye on what has been done and one on what might happen better. Seems reasonable, no?
The way you spin it, it is quite reasonable. Unfortunately your spin seems to be viewed through basketball eyes where the HC is out front calling all the shots. The basketball coach is managing 5 players plus 3 or 4 substitutions in a rotation. A football coach has 40 players (O, D, ST) plus another 12 or 15 substitutes to manage in a rotation. That’s 8 or 9 players for the basketball coach and 52+/- for football. Responsibilities are delegated and while the HC is responsible for the outcome of the decisions, he isn’t making all the decisions.
– Yow has done a good job at NC State and the Director’s Cup results, APR and lack of major scandal all reflect that. She’s human though, and thus not perfect. She has not handled press conferences well. She may judge on one criteria, but she says she judges on another.
Who’s to say she hasn’t handled a pro-Tar Heel press well? As far as criteria is concerned, how you handle football and volleyball hiring and firing are not exactly apples to apples comparisons.
Tigers don’t change their stripes. (Now we are getting some real science in the game) Eventually there’s enough body of work for one to just see that that is all someone is really going to accomplish in that role. They’re just not the right fit for the job. How many years is that? What consitutes the success metrics? What’s really the potential given the inputs? I’m not the AD or the money people, but evidently many had seen enough part of the way through last year.
The AD didn’t see fit to fire DD mid-season and to say the EweNC and Vanderbilt wins saved his job is only guess work. It may have made the decision more easy for some to swallow but that is only a matter coincidence.
BTW having a fat wallet and a Vaughn Towers suite does not make one a football expert. Knowing how to raise hogs is not the same as knowing what it takes to build a successful football program. Leave it to the AD.I cautioned during that period last year that much was right and if we were going to do something, maybe it was to see whether we had in Kitchings out own version of Dabo.
You have got to be kidding. Do you have any idea of the amount of plans and notes from practices Sweeney was able to present to the AD when Bowden quit mid-season. Bowden wasn’t fired and the coordinators overlooked and Sweeney hired on a whim. Sweeney’s education wasn’t a BA, he had a Business Administration Masters degree. He was ready in every way to manage a P-5 football program. Clemson is run as close to Alabama as you are going to get. Suggesting Kitchings is ready to be HC at NC State is a real stretch. Kitchings stayed at NC State to continue under Doeren.
I think it is fair to say that DD is a good coach 6 days a week, but is a pretty mediocre (to bad one) on game day. He reminds me an awful lot of HWSNBN in basketball. Giving HWSNBN another 10 years wasn’t going to change the complete lack of killer instinct, baffling in game tactical decisions, momentum killing time outs and substitutions, or general Charlie Brown trying to kick the football level of meltdowns when on the verge of anything significant.
I’m reminded of the disclaimer that comes with any financial document – “past performance is no guarantee of future success” or in our case past sucky performance is no guarantee for future sucky performance. That said there might be a correlation. I think we are seeing improvement in things that build the base for future success but that is only opinion.
Tractor57, I want to stand on your shoulders answering ryebread’s last paragraph above.
Continuing your business reference many businesses that are being pulled up from losing positions loose money the first, second and even third year. Our football analysts would look at the loses and declare management was doing a lousy job. Some would point to darned near everything (the complete lack of killer instinct, baffling in game tactical decisions, momentum killing time outs and substitutions, or general Charlie Brown trying to kick the football) as evidence the current management was a failure.
Like Sweeney DD had a plan when he came here. This wasn’t a ‘let’s give ole Dave a try’ type hire. She know what we were getting and she knew what TOB was leaving DD with. The first year was spent putting in the offense. The second year was spent switching from 4-3-4 defense to 4-2-5 (which is all wrong.) Concurrently with these installations, coaching adjustments were being made both pro-actively and re-actively. The facilities were upgraded, the IPF was completed, support staff upgraded, etc. Building a modern football program is like running a business: facilities, management (coaches), production workers (players) and support staff. If you think Debbie Yow wasn’t fully aware of the plan and how long it would take, you don’t know Debbie Yow. Her associate ADs might meet with some sports but she meets with football and basketball multiple times during the season.
Part of building a successful business is training staff and workers. We see the parallel with training players but often miss the parallel of training staff and coaches. Part of any learning process is making mistakes. Doeren has made mistakes, some we’ve seen and some not necessarily the ones we think he has made, but some mistakes we will never know about. The coaches have to be allowed to make mistakes in their learning process, too. Being allowed to participate with some autonomy is attractive to coaches. I don’t know the reasons our coaches like it here, but my guess it’s like working in business. Fair compensation, good working conditions, reasonable hours, scheduled time off, etc. Coach Doeren is the most organized coach I have ever seen. (I know some are more organized.) Players and coaches know when they have time off and when they have to work. Some assistant coaches at other schools are worked to death.
In business there are sometimes circumstances that cause a business to fall short of the projected outcome. Perhaps a critical machine breaks down or a crucial material shortage occurs or a workman with a skill critical to the operation of the business is unable to perform as is expected. In 2016 we had a circumstance that caused us to fall short of our projected outcome. One of our workmen with a skill critical to the operational success of our football team was unable to perform as was expected.
In business you don’t fire your management team over something they had no real control over.
grey: Given history repeats itself and those who ignore it seem damned to repeat it, I think we probably should be mindful of what happened in the past.
rye, Just having a little fun with your comment above.
In Earle Edwards 17 years as HC here at NC State he finished 1st or 2nd in the conference 9 times after a pretty miserable start. If only history repeats itself. His last 8 seasons he finished 1st or 2nd 7 times. His last season he was in pretty poor health and finished 4th. How’s that for a history lesson? Good thing we didn’t fire ole Earle the first year he didn’t win a conference game. 🙂
And where were these history repeating itself conversations when we were discussing the hiring of Kevin Keatts? His history was very similar to one James Valvano. I believe ole Jimmy boy won a natty here in 1983 with his only previous HC experience at Iona College.
next question
I’ve heard that rankings are affected by volume of recruits committed. A full complement of 3-star recruits could be ranked higher than a program with several 4-star recruits. Therefore while the raw numbers listed above are interesting, they aren’t the be all, end all. Care to comment?
Rankings are partly based on physical attributes. Because many of our recruits play 2 of 3 sports, football and/or basketball and baseball, they don’t have “football bodies” in high school. IMO we are projecting what the recruits will be like after a red shirt year. We are committing recruits that are fits for our program — athletes who have speed and length and bodies that can be molded by our excellent S&C program. This could explain why our athletes, as ryebread says, “seem to get bigger, stronger and faster” while the Scout rankings are falling.
IMO There is no quick answer for programs like NC State. Until we get our program producing like the established programs in our conference and the other P-5 conferences, we will have to do some “growing our own” so to speak.
Bottom line? The only “trending” we should be interested in is the W/L record which unfortunately hit a bump in 2016. If we don’t have a decent W/L record and are not competitive in 2017, it isn’t going to matter where DD’s recruiting classes are “trending”, we will be discussing another coach in 2018.
Until the start of fall camp, this is just something to keep my interest alive. Not a lot of actual football to discuss this time of year. 🙂
