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We were warned it was too early to give up. Was Avent fired? If not how in the world did the Pack turn the season around? I hope this good play continues and we learn something about not throwing in the towel before the fat lady sings.
After 4 years of results and watching him coach its pretty easy to predict our upcoming record.
Although I’m sure rye can speak for himself I think what he said was it is easy to use the past to predict not that it was easy to predict using the past. A subtle difference but a difference nevertheless. There are many instances where using the past to predict has lead the predictor astray.
Believing that State can win every game is not the same as believing that State will win every game.
92owen, do you care to make your prediction known — using the past records of course? Our past regular season is 23-25 which puts us at slightly less than 6-6.
You are just……..odd
Whatever…
Greywolf wrote:
Keatts interviewed all the players from last year. The ones who want to or are willing to play his style are staying and those who don’t are leaving. Is it a surprise that some players have no interest in doing what it takes to get in shape and stay in shape?TK was anything but out of shape. That kid has a man’s body and a high motor. He’s also perfectly suited to this style of play. I thought he’d be an absolute terror in Keatts’ system.
I’d say that was a serious brain fart to say TK was out of shape. I don’t even know if Rowan was out of shape or not. LOL If there is some place they had rather be… I say, let ’em go.
but don’t forget that you are what your record says you are. I wish we could raise the average but it will be very hard to do.
In 2016 our record said we were 7-6. That’s all it says. Don’t let that fat-assed Tuna tell you it means anything else. It doesn’t.
As far as our “average” is concerned, get your head out of
your assthe past. Division, conference and National championships are based on the current record, not some “average’ of the past.Keatts interviewed all the players from last year. The ones who want to or are willing to play his style are staying and those who don’t are leaving. Is it a surprise that some players have no interest in doing what it takes to get in shape and stay in shape?
The other revenue sport coach vets recruits before he offers. Seems this coach is doing the same. I’ve had about enough “good players” who weren’t willing to hustle, play defense, etc. How many times did we lose because we didn’t have it in us at the end of the game?
Can it get much worse the the last 2 years? I’d rather have lesser talented players giving their all — leaving it all on the court — and losing than better players who didn’t want to win bad enough to work for it.
It might all come down to the parents of the players we recruit. Are they happy with their kids playing for a role model like some coaches we know of? Keatts sounds like the kind of man I would want my kids playing for.
I have no issue with the kids playing in Europe for a few years or until they can’t play any more if they can’t make the bigs. If they want it they can always come back and complete the work for their degree.
I don’t get this view. I prefer tough teams that opponents don’t want to play (and usually those type of teams are soft and give up tons of points and yardage.) However, I want offenses and defenses that result in wins…in whichever sport. If it does that I don’t give flip what the offense or defense looks like or how “flashy” or “exciting” it is.
Heck, I want to impose our will on the opponent. When we play EweNC I want to embarrass and humiliate them by physically whipping their arse. That’s football. That’s what our S&C director and our line coaches are up to as well. I like it.
Again there is no way we are going 6-0 or 8-0. Holy water doesn’t make you crazy……what else are you on Grey??? More importantly can you share?
Pack1997, When Lorenzo Charles went to the free throw line and had to make 2 or State was facing certain elimination in 83, Valvano didn’t say, if Lo makes these free throws here’s what we are going to do. He said, “When Lo makes these free throws here’s what we are going to do. You may recall Lo made both free throws and Lo was not the best free throw shooter in college basketball.
Mr. DOG said, “Belief is its own reality.” I say belief has it’s own language, too. Words like if, maybe, hope, etc., have no place in that language. Mr. DOG concludes with “It (belief) is the last wall to bust to win on a regular basis.”
It’s a little complicated for some folk here but coming back from ND with a record of 8-0 isn’t a prediction, it’s believing we can do it. Heck, I’m not predicting we will but I believe we can win in Tallahassee.
I keep wondering when some of you are going to put on your big boy pants and start to believe — instead of hiding behind caution.
Dude, just dude. Come on man.
Been in the holy water again?
The expectations were there for the basketball team last year just like football this coming season. I am VERY cautious about getting too hyped about the press they have been getting. Been there done that… a lot. Definition of insanity.
Gowlves (and 44), I understand caution and I I’ve been cautious when there was something at risks. We need to be clear about one thing here. We are in the stands, not on the field. We don’t have anything at risk. The definition of insanity doesn’t apply to us. We are not trying the same thing over and over each time expecting a different result. We are in the stands cheering our team on.
Mr. DOG said, “Belief is its own reality. Whether that’s belief in your coaches, your teammies, or yourself, it’s the last wall to bust to win on a regular basis.” Conversely disbelief has its own reality. When we come to Carter-Finely cautious and full of fear of failure, we suck the energy out of the stadium and level the playing field. C-F used to be a tough place to come to play. We the fans have reduced it to just another venue.
Sure we can blame it on the past. “If the team would win (without us and our backing) we could support the team again.” What a crock of excrement! The atmosphere in the stadium is on us. It’s time to take back the that home field advantage.
Sometimes when I see cheerleaders doing their thing when a team is losing badly, I ask myself, ‘How do the do it?’ The answer is simple. They generate it. If we ever want a winning program we are going to have to generate some enthusiasm. Fake it ’til we make it if we have to. I’m not talking optimism here, I talking about enthusiasm and support.
For the 2017 team what I have right now is a lot of enthusiasm. I’m enthusiastic about going down to FSU and seeing what they go and how we are going to play them. I’m not particularly optimistic that we will win or am I particularly pessimistic. I’m enthusiastic about going to play ND and I’m enthusiastic about Clemson and L’ville coming to C-F. You get the picture. Remember when we all whined about the cupcake schedule? No excuse this year.
Western cultures have an “I believe or don’t believe” way of looking at life. Eastern cultures have a “I neither believe nor disbelieve” way of looking at life. In an eastern philosophy kind of way I am neither optimistic nor pessimistic about our team winning “X” number of games. I am enthusiastic about playing the games on our schedule.
I’m human so when we come home from Tallahassee 4-0 I’ll be excited and start to get optimistic. After we take care of L’ville and are 6-0 I’ll be excited and very optimistic. When we come home from ND 8-0 my optimism is going to be out of control.
BTW I have enthusiasm for the basketball team. too.
Gowplves, It was painful for me to watch basketball this past season. I’m not the basketball fan I am of football but I hope Keatts can help those that stay with the team, “complete” the past and don’t drag it into the future with them. IMO you start that process by telling the truth about the past and what happened. Own your part of it. Take a searching and fearless inventory of your contribution to the season — both good and bad. A team only meeting where rigorous honesty prevails and each player gets a chance to say what he needs to say to be complete.
When the past is as complete as possible, file the past in the past file drawer and start to look to the future at what each player (you) can do to better your game. I expect the coaches will contribute to this. I’m actually looking forward to the coming season to see what we have and what kind of coach Keatts is.
I don’t see the basketball program in the same light I see football. Keatts is in his first season here and I have no expectations, just anticipation. I am doing my best to not have expectations about football but with the optimistic outlook so many outsiders have, it’s hard not to.
Gowolves, thanks for joining in. We’ve been having a pretty good conversation about Wolfpack football without having to pass too much judgement.
Go Pack!!
Jesus Gray, I pray to the good Lord you’re right and the detractors wrong. But a lot of disappointing, tepid, muddy water has flowed under the bridge …
44,
Kennedy stood for having a man on the moon in this decade. We didn’t have the technology to do it. It was a bold stand and we achieved that goal. Whether you liked Kennedy or not, that’s leadership. Doeren stood for something when he said we’d win a natty. We very little in place to achieve that goal. That’s bold stand, friends.Debbie Yow stands for our athletic department being in the top 25 for the Director’s Cup. Another bold stand. As the saying goes, “The faint of heart never won fair lady.” Debbie and Dave both set bold goals. If you are going to have goals, have goals worth the effort and goals worth failing trying to achieve them. Conversely, Chicken Sh!t goals produce Chicken Sh!t results.
The only reason the water that flowed under the bridge was tepid and muddy is our expectations. We were told Doeren was a good recruiter and our interpretation of “good recruiter” was very unreasonable. We thought Dave would come in and blow the competition away with slick talk. It doesn’t work that way.
We expected Dave to make shinola with you-know-what. The cupboard was bare but we expected more. Why? Because TOB had a good season in 2012. You can’t play in 2013 with players who used up their eligibility in 2012. 2014 and 2015 were OK considering what we had to work with. 2016 was disappointing with a run of bad karma in the kicking department.
Here we are in 2017 and half of us are looking in the rear view mirror. Stop it. Look our the windshield of don’t look at all. Either way is alright. Me? I’m standing for 2017 being the breakout year we’ve been waiting for. Stand in the misery of the past or stand in the future. Choose. It really is your choice. (While I’m responding to you, 44, I’m not really talking at you.)
Good points. Too many suits spoil the…
I’d like to see the student managers go back to wearing polo type shirts, khakis and sneakers — something appropriate to to the job they are doing. I imagine they’d like it better. too.
Keatts may be holding out for someone who is not free at this time. Could be any number of reasons. A good reason might be to use the money on the ones he has.
If you want to know? why Swofford has insured that UNC is in the division they are in it’s because he understands the potential rewards to this prize. As long as we both continue floundering – no biggie. But if one can sustain some success – especially if that one is Chapel Hill – it will be harder for the other to catch up.
This. Doeren hasn’t seemed particularly intense about winning in his early years. Some of the baffling decisions were (I thought at the time) were more about teaching moments than strategic. Still do. I believed him when he said North Carolina was where he wanted to be — the fishing, the life style, etc. He also said he was aiming for a national championship (or words to that affect) and while that may be outside some of our reality, I think he meant it. It can’t all be done in the same day but we are doing things that point in that direction.
Have you seen the new graphics showing recruits making plays wearing NC State unis? A recent one had QB commitment, Devin Leary, throwing to WR recruit Devin Carter in Carter-Finley (with a tarhole DB trying to catch up)? Carter is making the catch. “Coincidentally” Carter committed a couple of days later. I’m serious. Those graphics are hot.
There’s one of Hux wearing a suit (or tux) looking just like the guy in the adds with the caption, “I don’t blitz often but when I do, I bring the house.” (If only it were true.) Really funny, Our graphics guy is talented. And creative. And a great recruiting asset.
Recruiting isn’t about who’s got the smoothest pitch on the in-home visit, although you would think from reading here on SFN that it is. Today you have to get the HS kids seeing themselves in your uniform on game day. Sweeney does a great job of this. Kids see themselves rubbing Howard’s Rock and running down that grassy bank into a stadium filled with 80,000 fans. Clemson could have put seats on that bank but it’s worth it to them to leave it like it was/is.
Chuck brought the fireworks to C-F. Doeren does that hands on the heads with the team swaying thing. Walk-on’s (I believe) carrying flags, sledge hammers, etc. It’s all about getting kids excited about playing at NC State. Letting a walk-on run out carrying a flag and being someone who leads the team on the field may not seem like much, but good walk-on’s are an asset to any team.
Blah, blah, blah. You know this as well as I do. We all need to quit trying to be effing comedians with the Pack in general and Doeren, Keatts, Avent, etc., in particular being the butt of our not very funny jokes — if we want the Pack to stop being the joke of the day in the revenue sports. Mr. DOG is right on. And believing starts with us, the fans. IMO if we don’t believe, we forfeit the right to ask the teams to believe. This “I’ll wait and see” BS is losers talk.
Any-some-how, IMO DD is building something sustainable and by aiming at a natty, if we fall short we will still have gone “where no State team has gone before.” The less than bold want to wait until we win a conference championship to be concerned about a natty. I won’t live that long.
DD isn’t trying to build something on his personality, he’s putting the blocks in place to build a sustainable, winning organization. (All this preaching and it ain’t even Sunday.)
Go Pack!!
The first point is a reflection of coaching. Despite all the practice and all the instruction at a critical point in the game my left fielder went off the reservation. Somewhere I failed to instill a basic mental toughness and situational decorum so despite having a good team with talent my boys play right at the level of their competition.
Here’s a definite point letting boys play ball without so much organization and coaching. In all the sand loty ball I played as a kid, I never saw a left-fielder throw a ball to first base. (Just kidding, Mac.)
The second point concerns the excess number of D-1 programs, the numerous fan bases, the presence of very good other revenue sports (basketball), and the fact that other states that come here to recruit lack all of the aforementioned items.
It just coach-speak. Seems every new coach coming to State or EweNC says it. The reasons above seem valid to me. We aren’t building a fence around Charlotte but we are getting our fair share of recruits. Same is true for GBO. Frankly, I don’t care where they come from. I’d like to see NC State be a destination for young men with high academics, character and athletic ability.
I personally like Hux and don’t want him replaced. We need a grizzled guy on that side of the ball who has a lot of experience. I suspect that any issues with scheme aren’t on Hux as much as they are on DD. While I don’t pretend to have any insider information, it would be very hard to believe that Hux is doing anything other than what DD wants. I personally wish we’d blitz a bit more, but so be it. I also wish we had more depth at LB and played tighter in the secondary.
rye: Interesting mini-topic and I have no insider information either. My guess is that Hux and DD worked closely together the first 2 or 3 years. It wouldn’t surprise me if a 2 or 3 year plan was discussed in the pre-hire interview.
When we switched from 4-3-4 to 4-2-5 after the first year, IMO that was part of Doeren’s plan. Dave Doeren is too organized to do otherwise. Further more I believe most of what we see and a lot of what we don’t so is part of a plan that Debbie Yow has signed off on. Debbie is a big part of executing DD”s plan. She has to raise the money for the additions and renovations. I do get a bit of “semi inside” information but nothing really important such as hiring and firing. Stuff like “We are going to upgrade our sports medicine facilities at the Murphy Center.” Or “we are interviewing so-and-so for our Video Director who will be working directly for Dave.”
Sorry for getting of the track there. I don’t think DD was totally dictatorial with Hux. My guess is that the 2 of them have worked out the details. Interesting enough George Barlowe is Assistant HC for Defense as well as CB coach. I would not be surprised at all for Barlowe to become DC when Hux retires. Barlowe has been there, done that as far as coaching defense is concerned.
My guess is that Doeren has turned the defense over to Barlowe and Hux and I doubt Barlowe would still be here if all he was was a puppet. I agree that in the beginning Dave was active in designing the defense but Hux was involved. The shift to 4-2-5 was too new to them both for one to dictate how it was going to go. I’m sure Dave won out on any disagreements with Hux. LOL
Dave Doeren is a methodical, organized coach. Our defense is fully installed now. I expect to see the wrinkles this fall and that may include more blitzing. We will reap the benefit coaching experience and senior leadership.
On the season, I fully expect 7-5 has DD back another year. Any better and he likely gets an extension. Going 6-6 will make it interesting. I think we’ll be 8-4 or 7-5 this year.
IMO you’ve pretty much nailed it. Shhh I don’t want to say this too loudly but if it all comes together, if the good luck we are due shows up, we could win 9 or 10.
Doeren cane here all fired up about “putting a fence around the state” only to find there’s a school that is already picking the low-hanging fruit. I like that he hasn’t just thrown his hands up and said, “Oh, well.” Coach Edwards used Pennsylvania as his main recruiting ground. Seems like Doeren is willing to fish in a bigger pond than just NC. New Jersey is producing some nice results as is Florida. I don’t know what kind of receivers coach McDonald is but he can recruit in Florida.
That embarrassing scene at the beginning of the 3rd quarter in the Clemson game probably wouldn’t have happened without the years of heartbreake that proceeded it. (Translation: I don’t think that happens in year 2 or 3 of Amato.)
Certainly, DD can’t be held responsible for the coaches before him any more than we can hold him responsible for the talent he inherited – but it would be nice if he said he understands why there aren’t fannies in the seats.
Chop, I’m not sure that DD actually understood why there weren’t fannies in the seats when he made his request or criticism — whichever one chooses to believe. He’s our coach so I give him the benefit of the doubt. I’m sure he was sorry he said it after the fact. And I agree with you, a nicely worded statement stating he now understands why and apologizes for not seeing it at the time would go a long way to heal the rift for those who want it healed.
I believe it would benefit both fans and Doeren. He seems much more subdued in his enthusiasm than when he came here. That diminished enthusiasm has to show up in closing the deal with a recruit. Fortunately the assistants don’t seem to be affected by it.
…your optimism is refreshing and a good change of pace. And in general, you attack the post, not the poster….so I usually enjoy our exchanges.
There are usually 2 sides to every story and for now, you are taking the more optimistic one.
Thanks for the acknowledgement for attacking the post, not the poster. Whiteshoes67 called me out for my way of being on one of my posts and I thank him for doing it. I love “talking” football with you guys and don’t want to inhibit anyone by being a jerk.
Go Pack!!
I really liked cow’s comment on belief. It’s definitely the difference between bad and good. Good and great.
Perhaps the best news for us from last year wasn’t that we showed ourselves of competing vs the conference elites, but rather that the troops did rally and salvage the season enough for us (and more importantly) them to look forward to next year.
These 2 points may be related. we came back from the brink when we could have tanked. We played like a team that believed.
We haven’t had the proper “electric” atmosphere in Carter Finley since Rivers junior year. (It has clearly had its moments but I am talking about a crescendo of team performance, fan excitement and quality opponent.)
It’s too bad we interpreted Doeren’s letting us know the team needed us and the electric atmosphere as criticism. It wasn’t but some of us are in the habit of taking this kine of thing as if the coaches are that stupid.
It’s also important to note that 2 years ago we were in a very similar spot and couldn’t get “the big win”.
If you mean 2015 I “hesitantly” disagree regarding the defense. We were learning to play without thinking. We had no veterans to mentor the rookies. WE do know. It’s a different day. Offensively, I don’t want to put it on coach U but he was not the O-line coach that Ledford is. Enough said.
Regarding Hux – we actually defended pretty well last year and at times in his tenure. We have put together very respectable defensive efforts vs quality teams. We haven’t been as consistent as we need to be, but I do believe that the scheme can work. I still think that far too often we have linebackers covering guys in space (which is pretty much inexcusable with 4-2-5 when you aren’t bringing the house)…but aside from that, the scheme excels at what I imagine it’s designed to do: stop the run.
I have to say the about says it for me. Considering all that had to get done our D has done very well without a lot of big time help recruiting wise in the back seven. I don’t know enough about the 4-2-5 and how we are scheming it to really comment intelligently.
Regarding Drink – jury especially in the red zone and “must score” possessions is very much out.
Well, Yeah. I do know that red zone offense was a big point of emphasis this spring. I also heard Doeren “confess” that last year the O’line couldn’t block the D-line. Not so this spring. There was fierce competition but no chippiness of upset, just trying to help each other get better. I’m just going to see how much difference this makes in the red zone. It’s not the X’s and O’s, it’s the Jimmy’s and Joe’s that will determine how we do in the red zone — just like last year except we are going to have the kick-ass Jimmy’s and Joe’s. 🙂
Chop, I hope I don’t sound like I disagree with you too much. I don’t.
Defensively, our pash rush was slow out of the gate for a D-line that was billed among the best last year. We didn’t get great pressure until began bringing a fifth or more, and I don’t think Hux is dedicated to pressure. Without it, I don’t think our backend holds up.
First of all I believe our D-line was billed as one of the best in rush defense last year. We likely were playing the run first and then pass. In rush defense one objective is to keep blockers off our LBs. In theory one of our nose tackle to be so disruptive that he has to be double teamed while an edge rusher gets free to pressure the passer. We are reading the play and blocking scheme and where appropriate sending a blitzer.
We are committed to the 4-2-5 defense which, while I don’t understand it, I believe it is the correct direction to go with defensing modern day offenses. Related to this I just read something about Josh Jones’s first practice with Green Bay where they had him playing some linebacker, doing some LB drills as well as working as a safety. Green Bay people are saying it’s their best pick of their entire draft. He was described as a LB disguised as a safety. They see him as their nickel back and as a safety in their dime package. Last season GB used a nickel or dime package 80% of the time. 80%! Dom Capers is the DC and a very smart DC. This is not your father’s 4-3-4 defense.
I also think that Hux in particular and the other assistants as well had some learning to do. The 4-2-5 was installed in 2014. We made a lot of assignment errors that first year. In 2015 we continued learning (learning balance like getting on a bike and riding, not learning balance by reading about it) assignments and playing without thinking about what we were doing — reading and re-acting.
IMNSHO we are now ready to put in the wrinkles that will make this defense very tough. I’ve mentioned before something I saw at the Spring Game — well not really a game but a practice designed benefit our players. The corner away for the slot receiver was lining up in press coverage position but backing off and playing more like a safety. This gives support coverage for the short routes and puts men in run-stopping position as well.
As far as blitzing is concerned, I think our defense is being taught to read the offense and blitz when it’s there to do effectively. How good the offense we are facing is at picking up the blitz might have something to do with how often and where we blitz. You say, “I don’t think Hux is dedicated to pressure.” Okay. I think Hux is playing within our system of defense. It would be great if young Aaron Henry was bringing some cutting edge expertise to the back-end.
As far as our back-end holding up is concerned, I think our back-end is going to be better on pass defense than last year. My concern for the back-end is the status of Bryce Banks and James Valdez, 2 R-Fr. Both had some problems but are still on the roster.
I would like to see a more LB looking pair of NIKs — someone like Germaine Pratt. (see comments about Josh Jones.)
If you have a problem with a post, how about discussing the content–in my case, an observation about Hux, and the front 4’s pass rush without the blitz. Agree or disagree, I don’t care, but I’m not engaging in this rear view mirror nonsense.
First off, you are right. We should discuss content. I apologize for what may be my mistaking you for another poster. My old mind plays tricks on me some times and confuses one poster with another. No excuse on my part. Your screens names aren’t even close. 🙂
The rear view mirror is just an analogy for looking at the past to determine the future. It also has implications of letting past failures influence the present. I step up to the first tee and my past slices off that tee mess with my head. The concept of losing 2 games on the same Saturday also applies. (We were ranked 3rd in the nation when Penn State stopped us on 4th and goal on the one yard line in Earle Edwards’s era. We lost our next game, Clemson, still hungover from that devastating loss. The team was still suffering from that Penn State loss.) I’ve missed short puts and can’t or don’t put them out of my mind and watched my score balloon. Instead of breaking 80, I shoot in the mid to high 80’s.
Not trying to start an argument about the subject, just trying to explain what I meant. I may not be correct in my thinking but IMO it is a very important aspect of being successful in life as well as sports.
I’m going to close this post and take a look at the Hux/defense issue you brought up in a separate post.
Are you aware of what ‘context” is?
I went back and re-read your post and could not find where you provided a context for your assertion that winning 7 games was a disaster. I did find a context for your intelligence when you told of buying Panter’s LTRs. You are right. You aren’t too smart.
Your pathetic attempt to justify your calling 7 wins a disaster referred to TOBs record back when the ACC had 2 teams that could reasonably claim top 20. Today the ACC has 4 teams that can authentically be called top 15 teams with several other teams vying for top 25.
Your attempt to create context for 7 wins in the Atlantic division of the ACC today by going back and comparing it to TOBs day is ludicrous. In the context of who we play 7 wins is reasonable. Whether or not it’s good enough for DD to keep his job, I don’t know but that is not in context for how many wins is reasonable.
7 wins wouldnt be reasonable, it would be a disaster
With our schedule 7 wins is reasonable,not good but reasonable. A section of seats at C-F collapsing would be a disaster. Surely you’ve out grown the need to exaggerate everything?
All of you sound like good and faithful Wolfpack fans with 4 LTR seats each.
I’m good and I’m faithful but I only have 2 LTR seats. 2 out of 3 ain’t bad.
This season might be my last at Carter-Finley. Eyes aim’t what they used to be, and my 80 year old arse is wearing out. Aw hell, I said that last year. I’m going until I can’t go any more.
I can hardly see to type here on SFN. I mostly type to keep my mind active although having to deal with some of the BS I wonder if it’s worth it. I’m always surprised anybody reads the nonsensical circles I write in.
Oh, I lied about the Holy Water. I gave that up a long time ago.
