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Just a 68 y o married for 35. When I was at State, there was a slogan “A State man needs no introduction”. Of course, there were almost zero women on campus.
This reminds me of my dad complaining about long hair on men, “You can’t tell the difference ‘tween the boys and the girls.” Pop, if you can’t tell the difference, it don’t make no difference.”
There were a few women on campus, you just couldn’t tell the difference.
With the year round S and C programs going on, I don’t see a problem with the new rule. It ain’t like the “good ole days” when players needed to “get in shape” for the season.
When I was a freshman at State, after modeling in Milan for 10 months, the 14 girls on campus tried to grope me all the time.
McCallum
I was afraid those girls would whip a slide rule off their hip and beat me to death with it if I tried a little friendly groping. Besides I never got drunk enough to think one was worth it. (Please put on a burka. You’re scaring the cows to death.)
Unwanted groping? How do you know until you give it a try? Consent? I just can’t imagine myself saying, “Pardon me but would you mind if I put my hand on your arse while you rub your twat on my leg? No offense intended.”
And what’s this about feeling up an inebriated female? Isn’t that why they are getting high? My point isn’t to excuse rape or such behavior but We need something a little more specific than “sexual assault” to define behavior that occurs when men and women are out partying.
I have a friend who swears his wife said to him, “You can do anything you want just don’t wake me.” and promptly passed out on him. That’s what I call consent.
rye, I don’t think it’s a matter of being committed to baseball or not but more of a matter of football and basketball being priorities. It’s taking more and more money to keep up with football. I know that an upgraded medical facility and training room is in the works at the Murphy Center. Other upgrades are being planned.
It all has to be budgeted. I’d like to see an indoor batting facility here at State.
Off the subject a little but speaking of good coaches, our 2018 QB recruit is getting some of the best coaching available while at the Nike Elite 11 national camp. I saw some video of him and the #1 rated QB recruit committed to Clemson throwing. There may be a difference but I can’t see it — not implying that there isn’t one because I can’t see it. Our dude had the top score at the camp while being ranked #7. Measurements? 6-2, 200. The Clemson dude is 6-6.
Oh, one other thing, he’s ‘recruiting’ O-linemen, receivers and TEs to come to State with him. 😉
I think most pack fans I am around, here on this board and the others are just more like “Ho hum, here we go again”.
Wow! I’ve read a lot of comments here on SFN but “Ho hum, here we go again” isn’t one of them. I wouldn’t expect “Ho hum, here we go again” comments until and if the Pack lost to Wake Forest, BC and a couple of WTF games.
I think if DD hits the 6 or 7 win mark then you will see the apathy truly set in.
7 win mark? Isn’t that what you were crowing about TOB’s last year, 7 wins?
And we have absolutely no idea how TOB would have done with another year.
Change your mind? Just a few hours ago you were sure TOB was going to pull a few rabbits out of his arse or somewhere and win 3 or 4 conference games. Now you have absolutely no idea what TOB would have done.
I was neither for or against firing him just pointing that Yow better have the same parameters when it comes to DD.
I don’t understand your statement “that Yow better have the same parameters when it comes to DD.” Or what? You gonna roll her house with TP if she doesn’t? 😉
Yow’s parameters for firing TOB were concerns over lagging season-ticket sales, as well as his approach to recruiting. I don’t remember TOB’s approach to recruiting. “Catch as catch can” seemed to be about it.
TOB had some very bad luck with his coaches’ health and I very much appreciated his loyalty to his assistants. TOB’s character never was an issue with me. I wonder if he wasn’t forced to do too much “coaching” and that distracted and took away from his attention to his duties/obligations to manage the entire football program. If his time was spent coaching, something else had to suffer. A quick look at the coaches roster will show that the HC has no position coaching responsibilities.
I’m on record as saying TOB left a good culture base (“Champions in the Classroom, Champions in the Community, Champions on the Field”) for his successor to build on. I don’t confuse his lack of an approach to recruiting with a lack of character. TOB had character.
And I thought he had that hot shot qb that committed that eventually went to Kstate.
Is this a tribute to DD’s approach to recruiting? Go after the best players who will consider NC State? We aren’t landing every player we go after but we are now on quite a few elite recruits favored lists. You have to be considered before you can expect to be selected. DD’s approach to recruiting will produce results.
Not only was the cupboard bare in 2013 but the prospect lists had few elite prospects. Not so today.
Grey: I think we both see that DD badly needs some media relations training. He may or may not throw others under the bus in private or in front of the team, but it sure doesn’t come across that way in the post game press conferences. That might be the place where his microphone most needs muting.
I hope he can find a neutral ground between his basic honesty and “coach speak” needed for media relations. Off the top of my head I’d say there is a fine line between blame (throwing someone under the bus) and analyzing what happened in order to correct it. I hope Doeren has been carelessly analyzing what happened in front of the media and I hope he will stop doing it.
I have thought since day one that DD and Hux were a team on the defense. That’s why when many wanted Hux’s head, I questioned them. Do we really think this is solely Hux’s defense or even that he is primarily responsible? As you say, he’s never been a 4-2-5 guy. The good news is that we improved last year, and will have a stout DL this year (which means we should again be solid).
Just guessing again — I think Doeren initially thought through the defense with Hux and provided some opinion/guidance as the 4-2-5 was installed and Hux got more familiar and more comfortable with it. As you have seem in my posts I distinguish between “the team” and “the program.” Hux, again just guessing, manages the defense from a team perspective while Doeren manages “the program.” Doeren’s job includes determining what defense the team is going to run although I expect that we will see more “adjustments” to the defense than changes as me move forward.
Dom Capers, the Green Bay DC, found they were running about 80 percent nickel and dime defenses in lieu of their standard 4-3 and is adjusting the personnel accordingly. Josh Jones is a big part of these adjustments. He is described as a LB disguised as a DB.
I think and I expect you will agree, Doeren and Hux make a good team. Hux isn’t so caught up in ego that he can’t let Doeren be engaged in conversation about the D. These seemingly casual discussions are going on all the time between Doeren and the various coordinators, directors and managers in the program. He probably could use a secretary with him to take notes full time. LOL
rye, there is some good conversation going on about football in about 3 threads. I like reading it and participating. The more discussion, the less need I feel to participate.
Grey I constitute in game management to be when to go for it on 4th, when the game is on the line make sure we put it in this persons hands, time management. And then in the coordinators ears when we are headed in the wrong direction. An example would be lets get the ball down field a few times etc. I believe coordinators should ahve the freedom to call plays as long as the scheme etc is being done so in the HC vision. I remember the CTC years where he wanted to be actively involved in everything and thus screwed it up.
Pack1997,
What you say makes sense from a “the HC is responsible” point of view. Doeren’s background is defense (just like CTC.) Do you really want him making offensive decisions when we are “headed in the wrong direction” because it’s his “responsibility”? He’s responsible no matter who makes the decision but does that mean you want a lessor qualified person making important decisions because of his title? Same thing when your HC is a guy with an offensive background.Don’t cut the coordinators off at the knees. Give the coordinators responsibility and authority and hold them to account for their actions/decisions. You have a game plan. The boss is there to grant the coordinator authorization to go outside the game plan not to suddenly become Mike Leach and make decisions about the offense. If the coordinator can’t sell his argument to go outside the game plan, stay with the game plan.
These guys coach together. Example conversation:
“Coach, Ledford thinks we can pick up the first with ’22 dive left.’ We’ve been dominating the LT on the ground all day. I say, go for it.”
“Okay Drink, if we don’t make it, our D’s been holding.” Go for it.”OR “It’s too risky with a lead at this point. Let’s punt away. Aaron, make sure the P team knows not to fake it.”
The HC does not have to be by himself on an island because he’s the HC.” He’s still responsible. Maybe that situation needs to be re-thought at the next coaches meeting.
Most decisions are already made and are in charts. The special circumstance decisions are know by every assistant on the sideline. We don’t have any assistants who will let the HC make a fool of himself. If we do, fire the backstabber now.
Doeren should be on the headset with the appropriate Assistant HC to confer and confirm his thinking. Yes, we now have Assistant Head Coaches. These assistants should have situations thought through and ‘what if’ decision advice ready to go.
By the way the decision at the end of the Clemson game is considered by some knowledgeable people to be the correct decision, not the numskull decision that cost us the game. I had no opinion, just scared he would miss. It could have gone the other way (we could have tried to run it) and Clemson could have picked up a fumble and ran it in. The arrogance to think “my” decision is the only right one is overwhelming on these boards. And it doesn’t matter how many other board monkeys agree with that decision.
rye, I don’t see DD as being “blame the assistants” kind of guy. Perhaps you do. let’s agree to not waste our time trying to prove ourselves right. I know of times that he was guilty of at a minimum careless about what he said or how he said it. My last word and I’ll offer you the very last word if you want it, the assistant coaches seem to like working for Doeren. If he were throwing them under the bus (not on the bus) I doubt that would be true nor would new hires be clamoring to come here to coach. (Ledford, Drink, Patrick, Henry)
We’ll never know the true story on how Doeren and Hux worked to get the defense together. Some decisions were only Doeren’s to make such as switching to the 4-2-5 and when to do it (2014). Neither Hux nor Doeren had a 4-2-5 background and I would guess the 4-2-5 was discussed and researched by both. Bottom line I can’t see Doeren expecting Hux to coach a defense he wasn’t fully invested in.
We both have seen or know of Doeren barking at Hux going into the locker room at half-time. Depending on who we wanted to make wrong we could make that mean anything we wanted to make it mean. More than likely IMO all it meant was Doeren was upset at what he saw happen with the defense and Hux is the guy he talks to or yells at about it. It doesn’t even mean it was something that Hux himself did. I have chewed a foreman out for something a mechanic did. Later the mechanic caught it from the foreman. Sh!t runs down hill.
Grey, let me get this straight. We should have someone else handle in game management?
Greywolf’s words for which Pack1997 showed contempt prior to investigation: “I would like to see the coordinators given the responsibility and authority to run the offense, defense and special teams as they see fit to accomplish goals agreed upon by the HC and coordinators.”
Pack1997,
in pro games rarely do you see Head Coaches calling plays or defenses. There are college teams managed this way as well. Coordinators are held accountable for the calls and decisions they make. If you’ve ever wondered why good coordinators make the money they make, this is a big part of the reason. The HC’s job is to be a presence on the sideline, butt slapper and attaboy dispenser. An important part of the HC’s job is to be available for consultation if a coordinator wants to deviate from the game plan.This site is rampart with contempt prior to investigation. This isn’t youth league football with the HC on the sidelines making all the decisions as many seem to think Doeren is doing.
You keep referencing the Clemson game as if we won.
sorry about that. I intended to reference the Clemson game as if we had played them.
Grey you only look at the things that support your opinion.
Yes, that is correct. I’ve noticed that even you, as wonderful and smart as you are, cite things that support your opinion.
The Clemson game you speak of, we were only in because they turned the ball over a few thousand times.
Hmmm… Was that the game where Dra Wright hit the Clemson RB so hard he hardly knew what hit him? If you think fumbles are caused by bad luck… never mind.
Have a nice day.Grey do you think DD will get fired if he only wins 6 wins in regular season? How about 7?
DO you think he should be fired at either one of those totals?
Unlike some I don’t think a coach should be fired as punishment for not winning an arbitrary number of games so I won’t be making that call until after the season. After the season I hope Debbie Yow will decide with the chancellor what is best for the football program and the university and not what some big donor or even a general consensus thinks she should do. She’ll take the heat for the decision should it be unpopular but that goes with the job.
TOB, for instance, wasn’t fired because of the season he had in 2012, but for a lack of quality depth to replace the 22 seniors who graduated including Mike Glennon, continued fall-off in recruiting, and for having the general condition of the program to be in disarray. Predictably TOB was going to have the kind of season DD had in 2013. Maybe not quite as bad in the W/L record but a miserable season all the same.
I will say that I hope that the team is successful, not because I like Doeren particularly but because I don’t want a disruption in the growth of the program from a marginally sustainable program to a fully integrated program distinguishable primarily in size from the Big-boy football programs.
I probably shouldn’t say this and it will never happen but I would like to see the coordinators given the responsibility and authority to run the offense, defense and special teams as they see fit to accomplish goals agreed upon by the HC and coordinators.
I’m afraid that Doeren will never be respected on the sidelines. Just like trust in a marriage once respect for the HC on the sidelines is gone, it will likely never return. Actions of a spouse who is not trusted will be viewed with suspicion; decisions that don’t turn out will be assumed to be bad, wrong or dumb-assed.
Right now only a few people who post about football are not fearful that no matter how good things look, nothing is going to turn out well because Doeren is ______(fill in the blank).
So I don’t think it matters whether we win 6, 7, or even 9 or 10 games there will still be a disrespect of Doeren’s sideline abilities and a low-grade clamor for him to be replaced at the first opportunity.
I keep trying to think of a way to keep him as HC and have the sideline coaching be done by a coordinator. The difference in my and most thinking is it would be a huge mistake to fire him because we couldn’t replace him to build and manage what he does the other 99 percent of the time.
I’m not saying DD is HWSNBN, but let’s not pretend for a second that the media doesn’t have bias.
Do you remember the story rating all the D-1 coaches? DD was rated about 68 — lower than some coaches who had not coached a D-1 game. He was rated below nearly all the P-5 coaches he beat. If that is bias for DD, I’d hate to see the ones who are biased the other way.
Greywolf wrote:
I don’t know what people said about Sendek’s teams
I do.rye, How long are you going to rent HWSNBN space in your head? I hope your rant about Sendek gives you some peace. Now, let him go. He ain’t worth it. Never was, never will be.
I like how people say we were missed field goals away from a 10 win season. In sports thats crap. You have no idea what effect a made field goal has in the game. Does the other team come right back and score? Does it motivate them to focus more and not turn the ball over 5 times?There are hundred of what ifs in games and making a field goal doesn’t guarantee the outcome would have changed. Yes we have a veteran offensive line, that was mediocre last year. I hate looking at returning starters to judge whether a team will be good. It means very little when those starters were average at best. We also have an inexperienced secondary but talented so how quickly they step up determines alot about our season. While we have talent, we still need to have a lot go right this season for us to up the win total.
Making the field goal at the end of the Clemson game would have guaranteed a win. Time expired as the ball was being kicked. A dropped INT likely cost us a game. A freshman WR lined up incorrectly cost us a TD that would have made losing to BC nearly impossible. The only game where a field goal made may not have made any difference in your miss/made field goal analogy was the ECU game where we missed 2 chip shot FGs.
Mistakes are a part of football and you are what your record says you are in any given season. Evaluating next season’s potential it is fair to analyze why games were lost not merely note that they were lost. True enough we can’t count to being in the same position with Clemson and FSU and I don’t count on winning those 2 games. I believe we CAN win them, just that I don’t count on them.
Our offensive line couldn’t block our D-line last year (according to DD). This spring DD said they were able to block our D-line — not that they dominated the D-line. While that doesn’t guarantee anything, it is encouraging to me. While our O-line may be considered mediocre by some, it gave up relatively few sacks. I’m sure some of that stat can be attributed to our short passing game.
I share your view of our secondary. It will be more skilled and if our D-line and LBs can keep the pressure off them, they should be a better group by the time we get to the ND game.
As far as a lot of things needing to go right for us to up our win total, I believe if we can stop a few things from going wrong, our win total will go up.
People made excuses about Sendek’s teams for years. Close doesn’t count for much in most sports…you either win or you don’t.
I don’t know what people said about Sendek’s teams but I’m pretty sure Hale wasn’t making “excuses” for Doeren’s 2016 team. What possible reason would Hale have for making excuses for anybody? If making excuses is how you read what Hale had to say, I’d suggest you ask yourself, “What filter am I looking through.”
I find it ludicrous for you or anybody to consider another’s evaluation of information to be making excuses. Get real.
Chop: I agree with your stock analogy. All the pieces are there. The management needs to put it together.
Ahem, let’s acknowledge that management put the pieces there. 😉 We like to say that Doeren is incompetent but like Hale said, but for a decent kicker State could have been 10-2 in 2016. That’s not what I call bad management.
Our starting QB has said he is working to add muscle, weight, speed and quickness this spring so he will better able to take advantage of opportunities to pick up yardage he left to the field last year. I don’t put it on him either but I do like his attitude. It looks like our blue collar, hands in the dirt, work ethic extends to positions not traditionally known to be that way.
I don’t know what to do when we get in the red zone but I do know the field shrinks. There is less area to cover. Not saying that management made the right calls but the same calls that get you to the red zone may not be the calls to get you into the end zone. Just saying…
On a good note the areas we fell short last fall were worked on heavily this spring. Red zone offense, special team play and Ones vs Ones line play in particular. It wasn’t just the kicking that management thought needed improvement. We won’t know how much difference the Ones vs Ones line play will make a difference but Doeren said that last year our O-line couldn’t block our D-line and this spring they could or were competitive — I don’t remember which. I didn’t get the idea the D-line had gotten any less effective.
Note: While the competition was there and the intensity was there, there was no chippiness between the O and D lines. It was One Pack/One Goal with the lines working to help each other get better.
Sweet Jesus dude we get it, we really do.
Who is the “we” above? You got a mouse in your pocket? If not how about listing the people you are authorized to speak for.
Who is this “freshmanin83”? He sure has some brass cojones. Dude has started two threads, not only about Wolfpack football, but also very positive threads. Not drawing a lot of comments tho. Come on folks, let’s generate some discussion here. What do you say. Can Dave Doeren go from cliff’s edge to sleeping giant before he’s played a single game?.
There are some pretty savvy observers here on SFN some of whom say Doeren should have been fired at the end of last season regardless of the outcome of the EweNC game. Some say the EweNC win saved his job.
I have to say that both points of view seem to be pretty misinformed. Maybe the W/L record ALONE is not a safe deciding factor. With no way of knowing this to be true or not, I think our AD quietly had conversations with the big donors and settled their upset and anger and convinced them that waiting until 2017 is the prudent route to take.
After reading this and the linked story, I find myself wanting to be catty and sarcastic. I’m going to try to resist that.
I was wondering why nobody had commented on this thread then I thought about it. After repeated comments by most people who have posted saying they would wait and see or worse, I realize that this paragraph makes a strong case that the future is not necessarily predicted by what last year’s record says about you.
Using stock market analogies the author, David Hale, says in the Atlantic Division to buy FSU and NC State stock. All the others are Hold or Sell. My catty side asks, ‘Didn’t he read our W/L record and doesn’t he know “you are what your record says you are?”
Folks, here is your chance to put David Hale in his place by ripping his research and logic to pieces. 😉
I may be in the minority, but I feel the best about our basketball program in a long, long time.
Can I join you in being that minority? This guy Keatts is a tireless worker. I like him bringing in recruits for this year (2017/18) and the future. Keatts may not win big right away but I have the feeling he/we are going to be pesky and making it difficult for our opponents from the git go.
Honestly, our record means less to me in the first years than being proud of the team for playing hard and giving it their best effort from opening tap to final whistle. I don’t know if he is Coach Right, but he is Coach Right Now and I’m giving him 100% support.
