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I hope the FSU win gives us the confidence to compete.
I’d say it was the other way around, the confidence to compete gave us the FSU win.
Pack1997,
I know what you mean about the EweNC game but as far as recent history is concerned we won 2 out of the last 3 and 7 out of 10. That’s all well and good but I’m basing my 75% on our current team and that horrible list of injuries they have. And you are right. Anything can happen in that game.
I think, wonder, speculate, opine, whatever, that the win over FSU will take take the onus off us should we lose to L’ville under certain conditions. We need to play well, play like a top 25 team is expected to play and it would help for us to make it a good Thursday night game. Personally I would like to see us shut down L’ville’s run game, limit their big play TDs and out score them.
Should we win I would have trouble keeping my expectations in check. IOW I would very much like our chances in the rest of the games except Clemson and think we would have a decent chance at home vs Clemson. Should we lose as described above, I would keep my chances at ND and Clemson the same and pray we don’t have a WTF game with the rest.
I have supported Doeren since Doeren was announced as our new head coach. A lot gets said here about good QBs being a difference maker on teams.
2013 Doeren’s starting QB, a grad transfer WR being given a shot at QB, was knocked out for half a season in our first possession the first game of the Doeren era. Very disappointed in the season but not Doeren particularly. Snake bit maybe… As the season played out some aspects of Doeren’s coaching concerned me and I still supported Doeren. (IMO DD is a far better coach today than he was when he got here.)
2014 we exceeded my expectations. Thank you Jacobi Brisette.
2015 was a let-down year for me. I still supported Doeren and I began to see things about the program, not the team, I liked very much.
2016 “if it won’t for bad luck we’d have no luck at all…” And the team demonstrated some “no quit” after some devastating losses and finished strong.
2017 “The sun don’t shine on the same dog’s arse all day.” We are going to catch some breaks and win some we didn’t win in the past.
Thw D is not as strong as I thought it would be. Still…
I pretty much go along with Pack1997’S to win with one big difference — the EweNC game. No way in heii does EweNC have a 50% chance to win.
while I support DD 100% I have concerns about him as a game day coach But since Drinkwitz is calling he plays and DD has his mind on the big picture those concerns are fadding fast. But what in the name of goodness do concerns have to do with supporting him?
vs UL
50%45% chance we win.
@Pitt 65% chance we win
@ND40%45% chance we win
VS Clemson 35% chance win
@BC 75% chance win, would love to make this one higher but don’t want to jinx it.
@WFU 50% chance we win
vsUNC50%75% chance we winIf the defense fulfills expectations, we could have that extraordinary season.
Gee ,I guess I touched a nerve! Just using my first amendment…as long as CD thinks it’s OK.
To quote Yogi, “Sorry rt, I’ve just endured too many negative posts from what is supposed to be a FANS site FOR NC State.” I wish I could take it all back but of course that’s not possible.
You said it best. What you said touched a nerve.Grey… your fat fingers got me confused with somebody else… or it’s WordPress phathoms..
GW .. excuse me but I don’t recall addressing my post to anyone in particular and therefore…
Now that’s funny. I like your dry sense of humor.
BTW you don’t have to address people in particular to offend them. The players who are kneeling aren’t doing so because they personally are affected by what they are protesting. Of course I’m just joking. How do you like my dry sense of humor? 😉
I admit it… I have a dry humor but I bleed WOLFPACK RED and will not waste my time telling you about it. Now I have to watch the game tonight…R Wilson vs J Brissett.
44, I get that you were trying to be funny and it’s your constitutional right to belittle Coach Doeren and the Pack on it’s accomplishments. However having the constitutional right to say something doesn’t make it the right thing to say.
You offended Yogi with your knee-slapper humor. It’s your constitutional right. I’m wondering if you are man enough to apologize to Yogi for offending him.
It’s hard to have a ‘killer’ instinct when your best receivers are dropping passes that stop your drives. Lots of teams seem to have lost their killer instinct — VT, FSU, EweNC, LSU, TN, etc. There is an ebb and flow to sports among relatively equal teams. It is unreasonble if not ill advised to think your team is going to come out in the second half and blow your opponent away — you know show your “killer instinct.”
IMO we put FSU behind us and came out taking care of business. The second half did not go as well. Syracuse had the right to question as Chuck use to say, “Question their manhood”, and came out playing with some level of desperation. Our offense did answer the call on one drive where we didn’t drop easy catches.
Syracuse is a “Lose close” team that likely will be a “Win close” team maybe as soon as next year. They have a better defense than many credit them with having. IIRC they have a football tradition to call on — guys like Jim Brown, Ernie Davis, McNabb, etc.
The Wolfpack is doing fairly well for a team with an idiot for a HC (sarcasm alert), and low ranked recruiting classes. Too bad they are not perfect.
We didn’t take our foot off the gas in the second half, we never had it on the gas in the 2nd half.
We also had 5he sropsies.
Those coaches like Bowden, Saban, Beamer, Dabo all play their better players on special teams, and typically have good special teams.
You got me there. I don’t know the make up of Bowden’s or Beamer’s or Sweeney’s special teams. especially Bowden since it has been so many years since he coached. Wow! I’m impressed that you have access to such information. How about some of the rest of the P-5 programs. Does every team use it’s best players on special teams or is it just Doeren, TOB, Amato, O’Cain and Holtz?
Oh I already have it figured out.
Then why ask the question?
On to Syracuse… Thank goodness the game isn’t played their QB and receivers vs. our DBs. In the old days the team that won the war in the trenches usually won the game. I believe we have the advantage on both sides of the ball. There are other factors involved in winning football games. Cuse causes turn overs. We protect the ball. Interested to see how that goes.
Our DL consists of 8 players who share playing time although not equally. Keeping our D-line fresh and rotating 3 LBs could be the difference.
I don’t think Stevens is going to play and if he does he will be subbed out for rest. I’m giving up the tired conversation that Alston can’t play CB. One thing I noticed watching the FSU game was he brought a load when he hit the receivers. Safeties too.
I’ll be there watching and yelling for the Pack. I hope we have to listen to the fight song a lot on Saturday.
Grey, you said special teams will only get better when we have more depth. Yet in other posts it is the deepest and most talented roster we have had in years. Which is it?
Perhaps I should have said more athletic roster. Doeren/the Pack use players not on the 2 deep or 2 deep who do not play such as some OL for special teams. Exceptions are the obvious positions — long snapper, holder, kicker, punter and return men. The is not unusual. Holtz called these teams The Rat Pack. Some teams use the best players they they have. I believe Alabama is one. Some players request — nearly demand — to play on special teams.
So special teams will only get appreciably better as the roster gets more athletic. I still say we have better depth on offense and defense than we’ve had in years. It’s not an either or thing unless you take one or the other out of context. We have better depth on offense and defense and generally our athleticism needs to improve for the Special Teams to improve. We will have to revisit this when we add the 9th or 10th assistant.
Now that wasn’t so hard was it? With a little thought you could have figured that out for yourself.
Rye,
Special teams are manned by non depth chart players, except Hines returning kicks and punts. I don’t know Doeren’s philosophy but I’d bet it was play as many people as possible. (Keeps troops happy and could be a recruiting benefit.) So I don’t expect significant improvement in most special team play until the depth gets better.
We kicked off into the end zone except after the safety. Our place kicker was 3 for 3 on EPs and 2 for 2 on FGs. Hard to improve on that. True enough we had a punt blocked but that could be attributed to FSU and not poor punting, although I’m sure the punt unit will get special attention this week.
To you we were running the clock out trying to keep from losing. To me we were using our conditioning and overall line play to wear FSU down and score. The 75 yard drive to start the 4th quarter ended with a 14 yard shovel pass that was set up by earlier running the toss sweep. We didn’t just happen to score while we were running the clock out. While Drinkwitz may have been just been stalling, I assert he was doing his best to score against a very good FSU defense.
Rye, I can’t believe you are so willing to discredit our offense by suggesting we just happen to score while trying to run the clock out on a 75 yard drive. That just isn’t done against FSU defenses.
Rye,
First off, I have no connection to staff but I am, as you say, biased when it comes to DD and will be as long as he is HC. I call that bias, loyalty.
I don’t understand what you mean, “trying to stall.” We dominated the clock the nearly the entire 4th quarter. Our defense stopped FSU’s offense allowing only a field goal. . As Choppack put it, “…regarding the ground game, we did get it going in the second half. Even then, it was rough sledding, but the commitment to the ground game payed off at the end…”
If we had not picked up a first down and FSU got the ball with less than 2 minutes to play and with no time outs, they would have had to do something they had not done in the second half — move the length of the field and scored a TD. Our D was putting the pressure on Blackman. I would have been disappointed but I don’t think I would have done it any differently. Do you not have faith in our defense?
You’ve criticized the Pack for stalling and playing not to lose but haven’t said what you would have done intead. Do you think we should have hung 34 points on FSU? Thats 10 more than freaking Alabama scored.
””
I’m one who would never take the foot off the gas until it was clearly out of reach. Up 35 at half? Push it to 49. Remind the players that UCLA pulled off a massive come back just a few weeks ago on TAMU.
I’m also one who doesn’t think a one possession game is safe. As you mention, it was one missed assignment that gave up a TD. Another missed assignment or missed tackle, and a 6 point lead becomes down 1. So we really want to put that game in the hands of our kickers to win it down one?
Hey, it turned out fine. It’s just not what I would have done.
We didn’t take our foot off the gas until we started using the victory formation with a minute or so left.
So you are one who doesn’t think a one possession game is safe. So you would sling it around hoping to make it a 2 possession game? Let’s not start insulting one another by these kind of remarks. Doeren/Drinkwitz kept their foot on the gas with a strong ground game.
I didn’t say it was a missed assignment that netted FSU the TD, it was an illegal (IMO) pick they got a way with.
Rushing down court and jacking up a 3 trying to make a 2 point lead a 2 possession game with a minute left to play is not keeping your foot on the gas. That is just plain darn foolishness. Running the clock down, looking for a good shot is not playing not to lose. Doing this with 5 minutes to go might be considered as such. Same as Saturday. Maintaining possession until the clock turned to zero was a good, sound strategy. And that’s what I would have done.
Greywolf wrote:
To quote Lou Holtz, “When you throw the football, only 3 things can happen and 2 of them are bad.”[quote quote=124354]Wrong… Bear Bryant said that… or copied it… when Lou was still in school….
Greywolf wrote:
JimboFSUwas out coached the entire game.with my edit… dead on the money….
I stand corrected. 🙂 Heck, nearly all that stuff Holtz said he read somewhere. LOL
This was an upset victory very similar in caliber to those achieved by ECU and BC over nc state. Most coaches achieve a few per year hell its a statistical inevitability. I would read nothing more into this victory. Dave is still a long shot to overachieve this year.
It must really gall some people that a Dave Doeren coached team beat the #12 ranked team in the country on their pasture and as b.otb said, “We “beat them” in every sense of the word… from kickoff to post game…” By no stretch of the imagination is State beating FSU even close to a mediocre team beating another mediocre team or a poor team upsetting a mediocre team as your BC and ECU example so feebly tries to indicate.
Sorry to inform you but after both lines’ performance Saturday, State has moved from “long shot” to “good chance” to over-achieve this year. The sun don’t shine on the same dog’s arse all day. NC State is long over due for some of that sunshine. Long over due.
Just to be sure I’m clear here, Doeren out coached Fisher and State out played FSU from KO to post game. No amount of bias against Dave Doeren can change that.
I contend from that point forward, we were clearly stalling and playing more not to lose than trying to win.
So I take it you would have been airing it out, risking an INT and stopping the clock on incomplete passes in that last drive. To quote Lou Holtz, “When you throw the football, only 3 things can happen and 2 of them are bad.”
I’ve read a crap load of comments about the game, yours is the one of the few if not the only one I’ve read say we were “clearly stalling.”
Grey: We ran the ball 37 times at an average of 3 yards per carry. That’s enough running to keep it balanced, but hardly a strategy designed to score points.
First, keeping it balanced is a strategy to score points. We, as you say, got 40+ yards off the ground to go up 27-13 in the 4th quarter. The scoring play, the shovel pass, is in essence a running play set up by the fake toss sweep.
Your whole post sounds like you were afraid that big, bad FSU was going to breakout any minute and pull it out against poor old NC State. Say what you want about those 138 yards. The only TD was a short pass where the FSU receivers picked Alston to free Tate in the end zone. That, Rye, was the only TD FSU scored. Our miserable secondary played the entire game and allowed one TD.
Sorry but I don’t think any of Tate’s yardage was “over the top” which was my point — not that he didn’t get some yardage off those deep sideline passes. Those completions IMO were the result of great throws and very good catches. You may remember from the USC game, it isn’t the team with the most yards gained that is always the winner.
Great job of managing your time outs, Jimbo. FSU was out coached the entire game. Our OC took advantage of the 2 starting LBs being out,just as FSU took advantage of Stevens being out. Having a good ground game and playing solid defense in not necessarily playing to keep from losing. With a 6 point lead, it just might be a sound strategy to win. As you say, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that.
@Grey: 14 point underdogs? What book are you playing at?! How can I get in on that action? Vegas books and offshore books had us as 10 pt underdogs.
I don’t play at books. I heard FSU opened at 12 points but like you said it could have closed at 10.
A popular excuse for FSU is they were rusty. Well, they were also rested.
I remember another true freshman starting his first college game, a guy named Philip Rivers. If you lose one excuse is as good as another. Let’s stop the excuse making for FSU. They lost. Period. That’s the reality, Alias.
Allowing 27 points wasn’t because they had a freshman quarterback, now was it? We had injured players as well as they did. Their 5-star RBs weren’t true freshmen. Let’s just say then that FSU (gasp!) got out coached. Just plain out coached. They didn’t have to play a freshman QB.
Sure Blackman was impressive but why didn’t FSU use those 4 & 5-star O-linemen to push it in when they got in the Red Zone? 6 times in the Red Zone and they got 1 TD and 4 FGs. And which team missed a chip shot FG? It won’t NC State. How many sacks did FSU get vs the NCSU O-line?
Put your head in the sand and blame that loss on having a freshman QB if it suits you but it’s a bunch of bull IMO.
Call it luck if you wish but I’d say we were very physical and FSU wasn’t up to the task. Just my preference to give our players credit instead of saying we were lucky.
Repeating myself I’m sure but FSU didn’t have to play a freshman Quarterback. They’ve got other QBs on their roster. They probably thought it wouldn’t matter against a 2 TD underdog with a coach who can’t coach and can’t manage the game clock. One who is boring and dumb as a box of rocks — or so I’ve heard.
I too felt a little bit like we let off the gas in the 3rd quarter, but I don’t recall anything specifically to back up that feeling either.
What could have caused that feeling was that we ran the ball most of the 4th Qtr. Our O-line was dominant and we were successful running the ball, so why not run it? We threw when we needed to throw. Had we not thrown when we needed to, I wouldn’t say we took our foot off the gas but worse, we would have been playing not to lose. So I get what you and Rye say, I just invite you to take a second look. Running when you are successful isn’t taking your foot off the gas. We were whipping one of the best D-lines around.
I want to add the following “Good.” In 6 trips inside our Red Zone FSU got 1 TD, 4 FGs and a missed FG. That IMO is better than good defense, that is outstanding. If FSU converts 2 of those FGs into TDs we are looking at needing to score again at the end of the 4th Qtr to prevent a loss. Anybody want to be trying a FG to win? Me neither.
Bad:
– Killer instinct…. We just don’t have it. I thought we took the foot off the gas too early in the fourth.When do you think we took our foot off the gas? We drove 75 yards for a touch down in our opening drive of the 4th quarter. We started our 2nd drive from our own 3 yard line and fumbled the snap resulting in a safety. Our next possession we ran the ball twice — we successfully ran the ball earlier in the quarter — and threw incomplete on 3rd down — the same shovel pass that JaySam scored on earlier. The punt attempt was blocked. After the FSU FG we ran the clock out.
I just don’t see where we took our foot off the gas. Yes, maybe in the past but not Saturday. Dominating the opponents DL with the run game with a lead is not “taking your foot off the gas.”
– Secondary: We made more plays this week, but I still think teams can go over the top.
FSU thought they could “go over the top” but the QB didn’t have time to get set and throw. They made some nice connections throwing to the sideline, but not over the top. Going over the top in theory is not the same as doing it with Chubb, Hill, Jones, Street and Roseboro in your face or you running for your life.
Not once did FSU connect “going over the top.” I don’t see how you can say that is “Bad” simply because you think it can be done at some time in the future.
Was the punt block our bad or FSU’s good? We can do better but let’s give FSU some credit.
