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I hope all the time the NCAA is taking is worth it.
I’d hate for UNC-Cheat to skate like Miama (FL) recently did.
They botched the investigation regarding Miami (FL)’s connections with Shapiro and Miami (FL) skated because of the NCAA’s failures to adhere to proper guidelines in the investigation.
Khan, I’m not advocating for not wanting to win or not caring.
I am pointing out that some fans think it’s 1983 or something and we just won our second National Title in under 10 years and our 3rd ACC title in 10 years.
We aren’t that program anymore.
We are an also ran.
I think Gottfried’s done a lot to rub the loser stink off the program, in the first four years by (a) making it to the NCAA tournament four years in a row, which is not nothing for our program recently, (b) made the Sweet 16 in two of those years and (c) produced an ACC POY and NBA First round pick, in TJ Warren.
I don’t think Gottfried’s gonna build a contender, because of the roster turnover.
But I’ll “settle” for the results he’s had in the first four years, if that becomes the new normal here.
That will go a long way to taking the stink off the program and making us an attractive destination.
In the long-term, Gottfried can be shown the door out with a nice
ransom paidseverance package, and a new coach, who we feel can win titles, hired.Well, if I understand what I’ve read on NCSU basketball blogs correctly, over the last 12-13 years or so, because we are NC State we naturally give any coach a bonus on the talent they can recruit, therefore their ceiling will be automatically be higher, which is why our expectations as fans will be higher.
Therefore Gottfried’s ceiling is higher than at Alabama.
Being serious for a moment, I think we’ve seen Gott’s ceiling and that ceiling, Sweet 16, with puncher’s chance of making the Round of 8, is higher than most other coach’s ceilings.
He’s not a Hall of Fame head coach, which is actually what we need to be a dominant program, but those are few and far between for most programs.
I’m fine with option 2. The pattern is clear by now and unlikely to change. And before the routine “But who are we going to get?” “We can’t compete with the blues.” “Who would want to come here. This isn’t a top destination job?” arguments, I’ll go ahead and preemptively call Balderdash.
We’ve only missed the NCAA tournament 17 of the last 26 years, i.e. since 1990 and missed any post season play at all, NIT or otherwise, 13 of those 26 seasons.
We’re a powerhouse. We’re just about to turn the corner and win an ACC title and National Title in a year or two, if only we had the right coach.
Hope springs eternal in every fan bases mind, prior to the start of a new season. But let’s have a reality check. We haven’t been a contender in over a generation, in the ACC.
Also, there’s a bunch of loser stink around the program and athletics department, from luminaries like Lee Fowler and Todd Turner, which we need to shake off, before we will be taken seriously.
So far Gottfried’s done a good job in shaking it off. Two Sweet 16’s in four years is well above average. Only 8 teams annually do better than making it to the Sweet 16.
To fire him, will just put the stink back on us, because no objective outside observer, will look at our results over the past quarter century and conclude our floor is a minimum of a Sweet 16 and Top Four finish in the ACC, with winning an ACC title every 3-4 years.
Our floor is much, much lower, and so far Gottfried has gotten us well above our floor, except for this year.
The question is, can he push as past what has seemed to be our ceiling over this period of time.
Time will tell.
Edit: TL; DR: Our floor is bottom of the ACC, we’ve proven this over the years. Doing better than our floor is necessary to get the loser stink off us. Gott has done that in the first four years. He gets a do over for this year, because of this. The question is, what is our ceiling under Gottfried? Time will tell.
Don’t get the Gott and Yow package deal talk?
Basketball is down. Football is still mediocre.
Yet several none revenue sports have competed for national titles, after winning the ACC title, such as wrestling and the swim / dive team.
There’s a rebirth of athletics in other places at NCSU outside of basketball and football, which Yow should get credit for.
She’s the best AD we’ve had in 30 years (low bar, I know, but she does not allow failing coaches to stay on forever).
wore the same sweatshirt Thursday and Saturday nights, and it’s going on tomorrow afternoon. I also haven’t shaved since then, and won’t until we win. Yeah, superstitions are silly…I’m sure the length of my beard has exactly nothing to do with how State plays in Syracuse, but I ain’t going to chance it.
Superstitions are not silly.
The extra weight of your beard will nudge the tilt of the Earth a small fraction of a nano-meter in one direction, which could be the difference of a ball bouncing off the side of the rim into oblivion or bouncing into the bucket for a game winning lefty-hook shot.
Last four years under Gott
2014-15 18-12 (probably 20-14)
2013-14 22-14
2012-13 24-11
2011-12 24-13I think it is safe to say we see a trend.
Year 1: Exceed all expectations and make the Sweet 16
Year 2: Lose Painter and some others to transfer. Thin bench. But still underperformed.
Year 3: Lose 4 starters. Rebuilding year. TJ Warren steps up and exceeds all expectations and we make the NCAA tournament again.
Year 4: Picked 10th in the ACC. Exceeding pre-season expectations.All I see are teams that are in some form of rebuilding in 3 out of 4 the years Gottfried’s been here and each seems to be managing to beat expectations.
Year 5 will be interesting, assuming we have no transfers, as we will return enough players to be both deep and experienced and should expect more.
Yes, Thursday is the new Friday.
For all intents and purposes, we’ve basically co-opted the Big East Tournament format, moved it to Greensboro and sprinkled in some ACC schools.
What gets me, when the UNC scandal gets reported – and why it is different than all the rest – is the people, who did not attend class GRADUATED!!!
I wish when guys like Barkley and others talk about players not going to class they should mention those guys graduated, unlike other schools that had bad graduation rates.
Makes sense. I went to NCSU from ’92 to ’96. My friends who went to Chapel Hill often griped about how Dean Smith was holding his team back, in the tournament, by not cutting loose the top talent and letting them go off, rather than distributing the ball like he had always done.
The run of Final Fours, by Duke, and eventual national titles, really stuck in the craw of UNC fans.
Athletics Department was probably just as eager to make up the ground with Duke.
And then Mack Brown was looking poised to turn UNC into a Top 10 football power (or at least Top 20) and they probably figured why not be elite in all the team sports and expanded the cheating to any coach, who was worried about keeping important players eligible.
EDIT: I really would be interested to see the Women’s a Soccer team use of the fake classes, since they are arguably the most dominant team in a team sport in the history of the NCAA. They have won about 2/3’s of the Women’s Soccer titles over the last 30 or so years.
The Wanstein report gives me a glimmer of hope that justice will be done to the Tarholes. I thought they’d skate after the first NCAA investigation gave out a modest penalty to the football team, but boy when the hammer falls it is going to fall really, really hard.
And if the hammer does not fall, the NCAA is done as having any credibility left, with regards to keeping schools honest. I’m not talking about true amateurism in college sports, which went out the window about 100 years ago, when coaches started actively recruiting the best players. I’m talking about what the NCAA’s basic function is: To make sure one school doesn’t break/bend the rules so badly that they gain a completely unfair advantage over the other schools, which UNC has done with these fake classes.
They also pushed Todd Turner
Set NCSU athletics back a couple of decades. With Dr. Yow we are slowly digging out of the mess Turner started.
Forget men’s basketball, successful baseball and football coaches left. Other sports were left to languish, with no real effort made to move the athletics department forward in any appreciable way.
He’s a terrible AD and we were not mad for thinking this then, because he’s been run out of the other two AD jobs he’s had.
Whatever faults Les had as AD, he did get the PNC Arena completed. Fowler got Carter-Finley and other facilities upgraded.
There is nothing Turner did here, while AD that I can point to and say, “hey, at least he did ‘x,y or z’ right, even if he was bad at the rest of his job.”
Vaguely remember somebody telling about Frank Beamer’s tenure at Va. Tech. It went something like this, first you lose by a lot, then you lose by a little, and then you start winning by a little and then you win by a lot.
I’m hoping we can follow a similar pattern with Doeren.
As far as I’m concerned they got away with “bloody murder”.
All this stuff that’s happening now is a janitorial crew just mopping up the blood from the crime scene and pointing out, “OMG! I think I see something the police left missed!”.
Would make a nice T.V. movie, but that’s about it.
The kind of pressure that needs to be brought to bear to get well entrenched organizations to reform has not happened. Lord knows how many lawsuits Wall Street firms, for example, get dragged into by the SEC and they still keep on keeping on (making money) doing whatever they feel like they can get away with.
The
stonewallingcooperation of UNC with the NCAA into their football program got them the only punishment they will receive. They kept any and all investigations away from the MBB program.As far as the greater public is concerned (a) the NCAA is a joke and (b) who cares, all college programs are corrupt to some degree or the other, so let’s just enjoy us some good Duke-Carolina basketball on ESPN.
Also, I have a feeling Nyang’oro will avoid going to trial and settle for some lesser crime, so we won’t get to hear him spill the beans on the stand.
Losing entire recruiting classes due to transfers is a problem. Good recruiting classes that stay together for 2-3 seasons is what builds championship caliber programs.
Gottfried’s better than Lowe, but so far I do not see the program in a position to take the next step up to challenge the top tier of the conference on a regular basis.
Sample of the work being turned in:
I wonder, if Nyang’oro will opt for a plea deal and reduced charges, in order to avoid testifying?
Right now, him having to take the stand on criminal charges is about the only hope the public has of shining any light on the cesspool there.
We are inching toward 30 years. 30 freaking years. In just the past couple we’ve seen FSU, Miami and now UVA find success. It really makes you wonder.
We’re getting there, as well.
One of the things we’ve lacked, in the last 15 years is consistency in keeping recruiting classes together. Coaches have ridden one or two good classes for all their worth, while having terrible years in between.
The Hodge class was good.
The next year was O’Donnell, IIRC and then a couple of guys who transferred and then the Grant class and then, I think, the Costner, McCauley, Fells class.
Coaching change and you get Horner the next year, and Hickson, Smith, Johny Thomas, Javi, et. al. the year after that. You follow it up with Mays and CJW.
Gott’s success was built on the backs of the next two recruiting classes by Sid, the Wood, Howell, Vandy, Painter class and the Brown, Leslie class.
You end up with a coaching change and have a couple of guys recruited by Sid – Raymond and Harris – who transfer.
With last year’s class of Warren and Lewis, plus this year’s class and next year’s class, we finally have three years of solid recruiting taking the court next year. Even with the Purvis transfer and if Warren goes pro, that’s the sort of consistency we’ve lacked and one reason we’ve sputtered so badly.
To recap the impact of the last bunch of recruits has been:
2001: Good class (in all honesty program changing, from where we were the prior decade).
2002: Zero impact
2003: Zero Impact
2004: Good class
2005: Good class
2006: Horner worked hard
2007: Got bodies into the program (Smith was a good player).
2008: CJW worked hard
2009: Good class
2010: Good class
2011: Zero
2012: Good class
2013: Good class
2014: Good in-coming class (as far as anyone can tell).we needed to counter punch Coach K and crew in the second, and we didn’t.
Fatigue. Pure and simple.
Turner and Warren were missing shots they were making on Thursday, in the second half.
This is about the same as holding the ACC Tournament in DC or Atlanta. Moving it to those two places moved the Tournament to the geographic edges of the schools in the conference.
I’m just glad the didn’t move the tournament to Boston.
I really liked the 8 team ACC with the Wake game ending the regular season every year. That’s how ACC Basketball is supposed to be.
I always wonder what the T.V. executives that enabled conference expansion, by giving out more lucrative deals to larger conferences are thinking.
No fan, of any conference, really likes conference expansion / realignment, but the T.V. deals keep driving it.
I mean at some point, you’d think a T.V. executive would say, “WTF? Nebraska versus Northwestern, as the game of the week? No more Nebraska versus Oklahoma rivalry? That’s not a good idea conference guys”.
But no, they’re like, “OMG! WVU versus TCU! That’s a rivalry I had dreams about as a kid! Sign us up!”
I really do not understand how the numbers work out for T.V. networks in this. I’d think the audience for a TCU v WVU game would not materially change, even though they are now in the same conference. The conference adds a few low interest games via expansion, but gets paid handsomely for it.
There are a few exceptions, like Texas A&M joining the SEC, but generally I do not see people going out of their way to watch Utah versus Standford in football.
The only reason to care is we are stuck in the ACC and good many NCSU fans are stuck working with or living near UNC fans, thus we cannot ignore playing them.
If we were out of the ACC, it would not matter one bit and we could get on with our lives.
