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CD- you always make me work. Ok, just googled “water” and “bogart.” What a great quote! Very cool. This is why I don’t like disagreeing with you.
Rick- where do I send you beer money? I feel like I owe you and we should take up a collection. Or set up a visiting schedule at the crazy hospital. Can I do the name calling? He’s an insolent lil bastard. (and I’m talking about CD – had to be said)
Pakistan- those were some funny pics!
If I could combine the Paki’s art design with Rick’s words and ref’s undies, I would have my perfect blog.
(I am so kidding CD- much respect your way. So when we say it’s in the water…we are talking about water?)
CD- how are you bud?!
I noticed a lot of football guys were on the pro-ref side of the argument. I thought a distinction needed to be made. A lot guys (and girls) have one mindset when it comes to sports. This perspective of the sport has to be recognized. In football, refs do not have the opportunity to affect the outcome as often and deep as in basketball. The rhythm of the game is much different. Football guys have a different mentality, which doesn’t apply to basketball.
Mr. Bum on the Beach, which is stated out of kind jealousy, is who originally inspired my thoughts on this. I know he posts a lot in football too and I like his thinking on most of the issues. He’s very balanced. But you are just swimming in that bucket too and probably more so, aren’t you? I do respect ya’ll and other football followers and also like your logic almost all the time (league freedom walk and refs is where we usually part ways). And yes, you are balanced too!
BTW..if ref looked like this….would never, ever complain about him again.
BTW #2, great joy in posting this pic!! Women lurkers, you’re welcome!
Foose, the pink one …. it looks like pink lemonade! That would be delightful.
I will now change the argument to reflect that the colors match the refs’ underwear. There’s probably a piece of tape with “KH” on the bottom of it.
Actually, are we SURE that those are water coolers?
Isn’t Powerade a blue drink?
Wait…It’s Swofford. Swofford did sign the ACC drink contract probably. Probably because it is a blue drink. Drinking the blue kool-aid. I get it now. No red gatorade.
Rick,
It may change when: 1) teams like State finally get smart and shops around for a different league and 2) statistics show more historical trend. We are getting there with both instances. One thing UNC-CHeat doesn’t like is numbers and facts. We have a university of really great engineers. People will be more educated and stop always referring to and relying on luck. Luck is a factor sometimes but not over the course of time.
If Swofford wants UNC-CHeat and Duke to rule the roost, eventually other teams have to take our place as the battered women. If State removes itself from the equation, other teams will pick up on it and can document further. Syracuse got a piece of it against Duke. It’s more about patterns of behavior versus just one game though. Social media helps too. Wish we had YouTube in the 80’s.
They are just repeating what the UNC-CHeaters and their media outlets are saying. Some are saying what they have always said through the years. Some are from the football school. Different sports with different perspectives. In football, refs tee you off….you go and physically overcome your opponent. Wish our basketball team would do that one time. Just once. I mean really, what’s the worse that could happen? 🙂
Rick,
My hypothesis on why you are getting some fan flack when statistics and the outright obvious slaps every fan in the head during games which are important to us. Football.
Football is a game of power. Basketball is a game of flow. All players need skill, physical natural ability, game smarts, and a competitive mindset.
Football guys have been trained to overcome ref adversity by nature of the sport. Infractions are much more obvious in football than basketball. If you’re not reaching in the game of basketball, you are not going to win. When affecting the shot which only requires a pointer finger on the elbow and refs don’t call it, you are not going to win.
Posters have commented if our team had made more shots, if we had played better defensively, if we had more players with more natural ability, if we had a different coach, etc. THESE THINGS ARE ALL ABSOLUTELY INSANE given the parameters of the discussion and last night’s game. If I had a billion dollars, then I wouldn’t need to work. Rarely, do you have a player or team playing a perfect game. IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
You can’t “overcome” the refs in the game of basketball as has been demonstrated by NCSU’s record for the last 30 years. Brilliant minds have proven this with statistics.
Basketball is about “runs” (flow). If a ref calls fouls at key points in the “run”, the team who was doing well will be stymied in most cases. There is a reason why good coaches call timeouts at certain points in the game- nothing to do with personnel. This is where the ref has the most impact. It would be interesting to see statistics on fouls called after certain number of points. Refs CONTROL the flow.
Then comes the outright cheating at the end with blatantly biased calls. This usually causes the most reactions from fans but refs generally shy away from this part of this scene, except if they work for Swofford and are reffing in a UNC-CHeat or Duke game. Usually, the game is decided before this point. This is good for UNC-CHeat water cooler talk. If Swofford’s refs can justify their work by saying that State didn’t play good defense or they have never been good at anything then the heat is off of them. I really wish our fans wouldn’t buy into this nonsense. A team doesn’t win on their home court 54 times (?) in a row without help at many games. Sorry. Statistically unlikely.
However, they affected the game by change of style from 1st to 2nd half and not calling certain fouls on teams (Foose rightly brought up all the bumps – which does affect a team physically over the course of the game and the play itself). Democrats do this a lot in politics. Let’s enforce some laws but not these ones that our team doesn’t like.
Another example of this ref bias that was tremendously blatant was the “Hansborough Hop.” Duke gets blamed for getting “under” guys when taking charges. Believe it or not, coaches who are aware of their influence are smart enough to coach this in practice. Tyler was dumb as a box of rocks (talk about UNC-CHeat academic fraud all you need is one interview with him). He did not think of that himself. Noway…sorry. The rules which they choose to enforce dictates who the “best” teams are.
My point of view at this stage is that we are stupid and get what we deserve. If we act like battered women, we deserve to be treated like battered women. Staying in the ACC and going through this year after year after year…..we are stupid. I knew the outcome of the game before it even started. Swofford needed UNC to take this one for the NCAA bid. Last night’s game was great for the league. State had a chance. UNC won. Close game. It’s stupid for us.
With some of the fans that we got, we are in big trouble and it WON’T get better. We are not going to stop the other team on every play. Great coaches, like Gott, will likely move on. They will get heat from our own and then Then we hire a morons like Lowe and Fowler to make us all super insane and to kill all hope.
Another reason to go to the SEC.
Mr. Dog, you’ve gone soft and many thanks. Beer and hugs are good (from the right men).
However, I once again had to visit wiki to understand one of your posts. MS, huh?! Learned something new. 🙂
Wuffie, be kind to CD and thanks for all your work too.
Ya’ll are fantastic. High, you too.
I do read SFN often. Just don’t have a lot of time for posting. Ya’ll quite often say what I want to say but just more succinctly. I don’t want to be known as the +1 lady.
+1, BJD. Hope you’re right. It’s perfectly plausible that we are at the “waiting place” with MD’s outcome yet to be decided. The question is will the ACC make concessions or play tough guy. If it plays tough guy, I think it will lose and all those teams will skip happily away. If it goes soft like CD, then our university might lose focus. It’ll be interesting here shortly.
We are SEC material. Seems like last year UNC-CHeat was claiming to be courted by a couple of different leagues- I believe them (SEC and Big 10?). Those competing leagues must have been serious with their offers for Swoffy to react the way that he did. Clemson was in open talks too. That’s what instigated the circling of the ACC wagons and Swoffy’s godfather mob vow (Grant of Rights).
There’s no doubt in my mind SEC and other leagues were also talking to us. I hope Yow is listening.
When will the MD contract be decided? Any guesses? I thought they won Round 1.
Pack85ee, respectfully disagree on most everything you wrote.
Where have you been since 1985?
Breaks tend to go with the best coaches and teams? NO. That’s why we are in this mess. Look at UNC-CHeat’s athletic program. Swoffy let FSU and Miami sink in front of the NCAA committee but when it came to his alma matter, he flew to IN to defend the school personally. That’s complete BS. Cheating begets more cheating. Look at the referee crews….look at the picture above. Look at the freaking league members. We are in a huge freaking bind. A little bit of planned turnover is not going to affect the cluster-f that the “league” has become.
The “we’ll get there” talk is complete BS. It’s not in our POWER to get there. The way we take control of our situation is by finding a better situation. The SEC. The ACC league is not our father’s league. The ACC that I grew up with is dead.
Wulfpack- it’s the organization of the league which is the problem. It’s systemic. Not just people. Swofford and UNC-CHeat have had their way. If Swofford and Roy goes, the power remains. How is ND, Syracurse, Pitt, and BC at all meaningful to us? It’s a terrible match. You ready for the ACC tourney in NY? How are they going to vote on league matters? Who do they have the most in common with? Frustrating to see this happening. We have been pissed on and away.
Pack78, legal implications can’t be worse than the exit fee. The contract (?) was coerced. (That’s my story and sticking with it.) If we want out, we will GET out. It would be very wise of us to do so.
Out of respect to Statefans….it’s been hard for me to watch this year with Pitt, Syracuse and other interlopers. I just don’t care. I didn’t watch the game Sat because it was Syracuse. Who cares?
I don’t know anybody who claims to be from Syracurse. If I was from there, I wouldn’t claim it either.
I did attend a number of early games. Then the Pitt game rolled around and ..didn’t care about that one. Off my basketball groove now. Yes, even with free tickets and I do like the atmosphere. The ACC sucks. It’s designed around UNC-CHeat and Duke. It’s not even fun anymore because of all the cheating.
I do like this team and coach. It is a rebuilding year and they have really done well. I’m proud. Yesterday’s news was just confirmation that 1) we deserve to be jerked around for staying in this ridiculous league, and 2) that our team has a lot of heart. Think of the Lowe and Sendeck years when we would have not been in that position to win or would have given up.
Finally, my uninvited thoughts on SFN bball coverage and side topics:
*Love ya’ll….have enjoyed reading the blogs.
*VAWolf is a statistical genius and thanks to all who organize this
website. Ya’ll are just terrific.
*BJD’s halftime entertainment sucks. (Sorry friend, truth hurts.)
*REFS DO MATTER. IN EVERY GAME. THEY TOTALLY AFFECT 100% OF EVERY GAME. Only if a team makes 0 mistakes (not going to happen) can they overcome referee bias. Not every shot is going to fall but guess what, is the other team perfect? NO. “Deserving to win” is a completely subjective and passive statement. That’s why home court and fans are critical. If the casual basketball watchers/families at home have to listen to dirty word and/or clever, referee chants, there might be some changes in the league’s attitude as commentators will usually address fan concerns- one way or the other. It also gives the AD more leverage in her meetings. I really don’t understand how this is even debatable. Bless your heart, Rick. Be the beacon!Amen and why are we even IN the ACC at this point? We BELONG in the SEC. I do not get excited about Pitt, BC, Notre Dame, and SYRACUSE. For godsake, I have no desire to visit their campuses and for all but one, their entire state. We have VERY LITTLE in common with these universities. How many Pitt fans do you know well?
THe SEC is local and a better fit on every level.
The league has destroyed the history and the rivals with Swofford’s and UNC-CHeat’s corruption. Duke, I believe, has leveraged itself into a spot of favoritism through the success of Coach K. What’s the last game of the season EVERY FREAKING YEAR for UNC-CHeat and Duke?
Md has it right. The traditions are gone. I hope Yow does and gets us out of this sleazy tar pit.
In short, what BJD said but with pants.
