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Master – just curious – do you wonder why a version of events contrary to what foose has indicated from those with access to tob or staff hasn’t emerged?
There are many who claim to have inside knowledge that corroborate foose’s version of events. I haven’t seen any who claim to have inside knowledge that corroborate a version of events that is more favorable to tob. Granted, tob is nothing of not stubborn and headstrong and he might not care
I think most of us can agree that this is troubling. However, the good news is that we have kept cat, freeman and Anya until their junior years and that all 3 recruits from last year are returning.
If gott can continue to have that kind of retention and bring in talented classes 3 out of 4 years, we’ll be fine.
The defensive backfield when he was here was him, Terrance Holt, and Brian Williams (if my memory serves correct)…all 3 of those guys had solid pro careers.
Bass – according to those who support Wilson in these version of events, Wilson was basically told to do this on Senior day by tob. If you look around, you’ll certainly see posters who probably had access to this info and that’s what they say. Tob doesn’t have the same online support. Given the lack of a contrary position, I am tempted to side with the “he was encouraged to walk with the seniors” version of events.
Wilson’s qb ratings haven’t been that high because his completion % isn’t usually above average (but I think it was pretty high @ Wisconsin) – his greatest strength isn’t his accuracy – he’s a very good decision maker and a great scrambler.
When forced to be a traditional qb – he’s not as strong. But, if I could pick a qb to lead a team in the 4th quarter, he’d be one of the top 5.
That said, this probably wasn’t the best year for him to pursue baseball. He had a mediocre championship game and threw the game-ending pick in the super bowl. I don’t think baseball will/did cause him to not be as good, it just is a lightning rod when things don’t go well.
Ironically, it’s the same kind of stubborn streak that tob demonstrates: “I don’t care if it doesn’t make sense, I am going to do what I want to do.”
Here is the real nc state $&#+….flashback to tob’s 1st year and rw’s true freshman year. Nc state is in the bye week after a terrible start. Rw is given time with 1st team and a series of plays are being prepped just in case since Evans and beck have been struggling.
We go to Greenville and Evans starts off hot, the team wins the next 4 games. If the offense was like it had been the first half of the season – there’s a good chance we don’t have this discussion.
From what I have been able to gather, rw was shown the door by tob. I hate it for both rw and Glennon…and I hate it for the wolfpack nation…. That’s just how we roll.
But here’s another thought. If we hire Paul Johnson – does rw wish to be a tackle dummy is his basic scheme?
Rye – I think most programs struggle with transfers. I think gott is doing a good job identifying talented guys with decent character.
Again, what’s hurting us is something foreseeable. If we were going to be a sweet 16 team, it was likely either cat or lacy or Abu or Anya would have improved in such a way that they would be valuable commodities. We needed a solid pg backup before lacy decided to leave.
What we lost with lacy was a guy who thrived in the final moments of games.
I don’t see how you can blame kids for transferring if they believe they have a better opportunity elsewhere. I have no idea why lacy or Henderson or Turner left but you can bet they didn’t want to stay. Its like a failed marriage – there are likely 2 sides to the story – but time will indicate whether it’s someone who should never be married or if the person has “improved” as a result of the change.
However, I think its crazy to blame a kid who is clearly “not part of the long term plan” – for leaving.
In my professional life, if I can get a better wage and opportunity, I am leaving of I don’t believe that staying will be rewarded.
Regarding the program itself, we’ve seen the ceiling unless the d improves.
To vawolf’s point – you’d have thought that the first season and this one showed the value of having a solid pg backup (that “backup” could also be your 2g) – so its on gott that we don’t have depth at this position. We didn’t have it before lacy left either.
Part time of the problem may be gott’s playing style: if you aren’t in the starting lineup, you can rot on the bench. He initially got away from that this year, but returned to it later in the year. If things were going smoothly, kW and Lee weren’t going to see the floor.
Of course, coach k rode his iron 7 to a championship, but he basically started 2 pgs (kind of like UConn last year.)
If there are no more defections/injuries we’ll have the athleticism to compete with anyone. The big question – aside from the issue of depth – is will we take the necessary step defensively. With lacy gone our d should improve (unless Henderson is sub par on that end of the floor.)
But see bjd – you thought they were going to stay. The bottom line is that most kids are going to leave when its best for them to do so. For both lacy and Washington – it made more sense for them to leave. (Probably more so for kw thank lacy.)
It’s a business these days. These guys are being sold on this being their training ground for pro ball – and they are going to try and make that $$ when they can. Hell, I will be thrilled if this is all we lose.
And let’s face it – were it not for the transitive nature of the game, we wouldn’t have had lacy, Turner or Henderson.
In his first 4 years, gott has been a poor man’s tom izzo. Molding talented and competitive teams under trying circumstances. If he’s going to do better than the sweet 16 and ACC semifinals he needs to have better teams defensively – without sacrificing much offense. That’s all – because the players ain’t gonna change.
Vawolf – Its packalum44. Hr makes you look like a raging optimist.
Bjd – these days, its all how you build a program. Its definitely tough if you want to do what gott does – build your team around a handful of MCD aa’s, a few top 50 guys and talented transfers…you’ll be on the bubble each year.
We don’t get the top 15 guys. We will be fine if gott can keep the guys he’s getting and build depth AND if we can be a decent defensive team. That’s a big “if”. He eventually lost his touch at bama. But I think he may be in a better position and has hopefully learned from past experience.
It should give all of us an appreciation of the stress of this profession.
I had hoped that Lacey would leave the door open but it certainly don’t sound like it.
You had to figure kW was gone once Freeman solidified his starting position. The big issue is depth right now – and that’s only if we don’t lose others. Hold your breath – the martin twins just got a lot more important. Cat, Henderson, Anya and Abu are obviously key…with what we have returning we can still be damn good. But we can’t have other defections or injuries.
Tractor – that’s true….but I would rather keep these guys together. A great season next year and I can handle missing the tourney while we rebuild.
The stats concluded Gottv at NC State was nothing more than a first weekend coach. Yet he made the Sweet 16 twice in four year years and beat the #1 seed to do it this year. Stats can be manipulated to support the conclusion one wants to make. Bottom line results can’t be dismissed so easily.
And the results are that you can’t expect much better than what you’ve seen so far if we don’t improve defensively.
Look at the coaches who make the final 4. When it comes to schools from the power conferences – there aren’t a lot of coaches who have been coaching at that level long who are “strangers” to the final 4.
History has an annoying tendency to repeat itself. You can flippantly dismiss jigs’ #s as sorcery, but its pretty clear cut AND common sense – if you are going to win 6 games in a row vs. Good competition – you need to be good on both sides of the ball and a little lucky.
This doesn’t mean gott won’t ever make it to a final 4. He had shown the ability to get the talented players needed to advance in the tourney. However, if we want more than bubble seeds and sweet 16, we need to improve our d, without suffering a lapse in our offense.
Wuf – she was like, the worst dancer on there…fwiw – the first female on TV that peaked my interest was Catwoman. I can’t remember the girls on electric company, vaguely remember a mickey mouse club girl, but Catwoman…surprised they showed that one @ 3pm.
Duke has convinced me that talent not only trumps experience, but almost every time.
What about last year when they lost in the first round? This team became great because they played great d. The critical turning point came when 2 of the top 5 picks in the upcoming NBA draft were on the bench.
Like UConn last year, they had a guard get right at the right time. I think gott has come a long way as a coach, but I don’t think anyone but coach k or calapari can hang banners with freshmen playing such a key role.
Personally, I love the way gott is recruiting right now. I thought we had a punchers chance at anyone not named Kentucky this year and next year I will take our talent (as it stands right now) vs. Anyone.
As jigs #s prove, we have a long way to go defensively before we can feel confident in making that kind of run (or more accurately) sustaining a high level of play throughout the season.
In short, if nothing changes we’ll have the “joes” next season.
Alpha – I agree. The “recruiting” this year is having guys stay and buying into a similar role for the upcoming year while improving their skills.
If we can do that all that remains is developing a toughness that the great teams have.
We do that I firmly believe we can beat anyone in the country. (Heck, we beat the defending champs this year and also beat the consensus no. 1 team on their home court.
This is our window. I am pretty sure gott realizes it. Hopefully the play do as well.
IMHO – perhaps the 2 most important players are for nc state’s long term outlook are the twins. If they can improve their handle and outside shot (which they need to do if they want to play in the “association”) – they can become the perfect 3/4 year guys.
Their height and athleticism makes them perfect candidates to play 4 positions on the floor.
If one can grow into someone who can run the point that gives gott a ton of options in building his line-up in the future and 2 years in the future also looks durn good.
If one can become that this year – they can adequately back up cat. (Lacey really struggled at the point towards the end of the year.)
Show me a gracious loser and I’ll show you a loser. This can be taken to an extreme – but I am glad Ryan publicly called out the zebras.
I abhor the way college basketball is officiated. The NCAA should take some of the billions it gets from the tourney and do whatever possible to minimize the impact of the “human factor” of officiating.
The reason officials are on the court is to ensure that the rules of the game are followed. Unfortunately, I think technology has allowed officials to prep for these games by watching tape. They look for tendencies and ref the game based on them.
Does anyone here think that officials reward teams who play by the rules or is it the opposite? Do they reward the holding, hand checking, pushing and bumping?
I think the kids should be able to go pro @ 18 if they want… I don’t have a problem with baseball rule, but I ‘spect it will make Duke’s and Kentucky’s even stronger.
Of course, we might be able to keep some of our burger boys longer too.
Bjd; to Duke’s credit they have pretty much steamrolled everyone in the tourney.
They have pretty much treated everyone in the tourney like they treated us.
Should be a great game. Saturday night’s whisky- Kentucky game was epic. I expect coach k will have something for the badgers – (think of gott’s game plan vs. Nova…force them to beat you inside the 3 point line).
However, like others have said, I can see duke’s offense letting them down.
Bjd – one of the things I noticed looking at his past records was that he had a couple of 12-4 seasons at bama before the wheels fell off…and they absolutely were falling off those last couple of seasons.
I really have no idea how the gott era will go. This year, he has 2 guys with incredible natural tools at the 2 best possible places on the court.
I am not sure we can count on having 2 guys with that much ability on a regular basis. Still, his 2 sweet 16s in 4 years here and his 4 overall appearances suggest he’s close to being a repeat offender (in the best way.)
Thus far he’s had an interesting arc in Raleigh. If he can win a conference title or have a very solid season next year, I don’t see how we can’t agree that we haven’t been in a better place since golenbock produced a work of fiction.
In large part due to recruiting outlook, I am in “hold” status on Gottfried…but I am optimistic about the future.
The Avery hire is bizarre… But it may end up being a good one. I think a lot of teams are trying to find their hoiberg. Good luck in that – we see how that experiment went for us. (Although under sane and competent leadership that hire would have never happened.)
I am not a huge fan of pressing D’s. I think it only works if you are dealing with teams who can’t execute – and there’s less of that in major conferences and even less in the NCAA tournament. (And there will be even less of that if they decide to crack down on fouling.)
You’re better off using a motion offense (which can look a lot like an, ahem, Princeton offense) – and teaching sound fundamentals.
