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I’m sure the Bucs were thrilled with that.
The first of many.
As a Panther fan, whose defense just got even stouter, I cannot wait to see the beat down that we are going to lay on that sumbitch year after year.
http://deadspin.com/why-your-team-sucks-2014-carolina-panthers-1620050552
I thought the crab legs picture was hilarious. If you can’t make fun of yourself, who can you make fun of?
+ 1
lol going all out with the whole pravda theme.
Item 7 I totally agree with
But since you want to continue the camp discussion:
You can make comparisons and data analysis as complicated as you want especially when trying to prove a point. However I have yet to see anybody prove that the last 4-year run was not best we have seen since the 1980’s, nor can anyone say they do not expect a NCAAT and Sweet 16 even if he runs with the 8 we have today. If he gets the big center and a combo transfer then …..BTW Lacy left cause his season exceeded his (and everyone else) expectations. Everyone that is but the staff that went out and got him. Think about that for a moment.
4-4 two Sweet 16, a near miss on two Elite 8 and a third Sweet 16. Is it perfect no. Is it trending in right direction yes. Are they some concerns due to Lacey’s surprise transfer based on financial and opportunities to take a chance on yes. Does it mean Gott does not deserve respect for what he has done and some trust in his leadership? I don’t see two camps. I see one camp that that is more negative than I ever dreamed to be and that is pretty damn negative.
Just what is the overall on court performance you would have needed to see to have someone you believe in? Big picture not individual games, transfers, etc.
Tau837:
My point isn’t that Lowe was a good coach. I don’t think he should be the coach here. That’s not the point. It’s that you could produce some stats that would make him look good. I promise you if you go and look at those, you’ll find some that he was actually good at that were core to the job.
As for your value question, go look at the Forbes basketball evaluation for this year. We dropped out of the top 20. We’d spiked up in Gott’s first year.
For attendance, we were 25th this year, with an average of 12k fans. In 2013 we were 12th with an average of 16k fans. We were 20th in 2012 with 13.5k. In 2011, we were 19th with 13.7k. I suspect that 2013 was probably the TJW effect.
Part of the promise was that ticket sales and revenues were going to go up and that season ticket sales would be on the rise which are more full cost tickets. We’ve been dumping tickets every year and still not filling the arena. I don’t have the revenue numbers right here, but have seen them. We do make some serious cash as a program and are in the black. I don’t remember how that is trending.
From the Forbes article “They replace Maryland, Minnesota, NC State and Texas. Those four are joined by Pittsburgh and UNLV among the teams in prime position to take a spot next year.” This ranking was for the 2013-2014 season which ironically had the big boast in attendance.
Click to access attendanceYBYtop25.pdf
Shows rankings under Gott are better now than in 1980’s. Shows average attendance under SL was equal to or better (with exception of 2013) and under HWSNBN was better than Gott. So what does this tell you?
The on-court end of year performance all clearly say things are better than under SL and HWSNBN. But based on above I guess DY will be reaching back out to HWSNBN
ancsu and Tau: I’ve called out the V references and the metrics as examinations of behavior that we saw during the HWSNBN days and what are signs of the start of the Clone Wars.
With respect to V, the ACC regular season in the 1980s and at 2015 are an entirely different thing. As soon as double round robin left us and unbalanced schedules became the norm, .500 in the league means something entirely different. Also, V gets a pass about the regular season because he was so incredibly good during the post season. The man delivered us one of our only 2 titles virtually right off the bat with a magical late season run. After that he was going to get an awful lot of slack about regular season runs because you knew once he got to the tournament, he could make some noise. V also had NC State as a top level brand on the national scene. I wasn’t living in NC during V (actually was firmly in Big East country in the height of the Big East), but I knew all about NC State basketball.
When Gott wins a national (or even ACC) title, then I think you’ll see people similarly put the same level of emphasis on his team’s regular seasons. Until then, it’s going to be important because we need the seed to carry us.
When Gott does anything remotely as significant as V, then we can compare them. Until then, any comparison to me just cheapen’s V’s legacy. We saw people running down V, Case, Sloan, etc. to prop up HWSNBN and it just made me sick. It’s the sign of the wars, and people lowering expectations about the future by attempting to rewrite the past.
With respect to the stats, my issue is the contention that these are the only metrics by which to measure the program that matter. First, those stats tend to leave out how the team performed related to expectations, talent, the state of other teams, tournament draws, etc.. Second, I can go in and pick out any set of stats and back up any argument that I want to make. I won’t do it, because I’m not really interested at this point.
Again, when I see that happening, it’s a sign of the camps. Each camp will trot theirs out as defense of their position.
A few comments:
1. Show me where I ever have run down V or Sloan or their legacy
2. V inherited a pretty good brand and enhanced it; Gott inherited a “ancient brand”
3. Tell me honestly if anyone expected any of their “first REALISTIC prom picks” to have done better that 4 NCAAT and 2 Sweet 16 runs with a veteran strong returning 5-year team.The loss of Lacey does not spell doom just lowers expectations. Expect ions are not an indicator of how next season will play out.
Now anything can still happen even with a signed LOI
The number of bad things that could happen after signing a LOI is extremely limited.
I know that. Written sarcasm is hard to convey subtly.
“No, actually you called me “ricky”. I will delete any post in which I am called that. It is “sophmoric” (to use your own term) and is a pet peeve of mine.”
Ah at least we know the rules now. So what is the recourse for “plumber Joe” who is not part of 1% who get to delete that content which offends them but yet can write/offend others at will? Oh wait I know “just don’t read it and move on”.
Getting the LOI signed less than 48 hrs after the UK offer and in spite of his coach’s comments Is as good as a STFU. Now anything can still happen even with a signed LOI but all things equal it is a pretty good day to be a Wolfpacker. He could have ended up being a 4-Star rated player except that he will stay a 3-star now that he signed with us.
Ryebread wrote “running down former HOF coaches (seen particularly around V to justify some of our poor regular season play)”. As someone who was on campus from 1982 until 1987 and knew Valvano personally, I am consistently amazed as the revisionist history of him and how he approached the regular season. I am one of those who has discussed the regular season play of Valvano versus Gott’s teams. I never was running the coach down (I loved the guy) but rather was pointing out several things:
1. His philosophy was 8-8 in ACC (or better), improve play throughout the season, enter ACCT on a run and go into NCAAT on a hot streak
2. In other words he cared less about winning a regular season title than he did about getting the team together and making a ACCT and NCAAT run
3. He tried out and mixed up lineups throughout the year in attempt to accomplish #2 above.
4. His lineup changes and in-game moves, at the time, puzzled many “experts” myself included and a lot of times they were gut feels by him and/or based on what he saw in practice and talks with the kids.
5. I see a similar style in GottI am not saying Gott is Valvano (I doubt we will ever see the combination of motivator and in-game coach adjustments from anyone better than him including K and others) but I do see a lot of similarity. My comments were never meant to run Valvano down but to remind people that, in the momement, our HOF coach was not considered HOF by all. The same goes for Sloan but to a lesser extent.
During that time I wondered about Valvano’s style and coaching sometimes. I wanted to win a reg season title and shove it up dean’s ass. Yet I never thought he was not the man for the program and after four years was ready to splinter into for/against camps. Gott comes along after a much much much worse transition than Valvano came behind and has shown the passion, drive and loyalty for our history and program all the while running a fairly successful program that, while still being the little brother, is starting to win a few matches with his bigger brothers as he comes into his own.
People can take my opinion and do with it what they may but my opinion is that the man has earned some respect from the fanbase. A lot of what I see written here goes beyond “pointing out concerns” and “making observations” as some try to spin it but rather is disrespectful of the job he has done.
I agree with all but part of ryebread’s comments. I don’t see how we could have a HWSNBN part 2 yet. Not saying if might not rightfully get to that in years 5 and/or 6. However after year 4 I don’t recall HWSNBN going to 4 NCAAT and making 2 Sweet 16. The program when he took over may had less talent but the chaos it was in when Gott took over evens that out. At this point in time if you want to stop the rebuilding then staying on board with Gott and bring positive are the best options as I see it. Until the staff and Gott show me a reason to indicate they ain’t still aiming higher than what they achieved already then I can’t bitch and moan too much
This is why the title makes a difference. It gets picked up on webpages giving the totally wrong impression about the situation and state of our program.
http://sportspyder.com/teams/nc-state-wolfpack-basketball/news
I recall Rick you were the one who told others that if they don’t like your posts to just ignore them. How about you do the same instead of being the queen whiny bitch? Better yet why don’t you answer a direct question put to you twice. Or are you waiting for Jigawatt stat review to prove with “facts” how shirty a coach that is 4 for 4 in NCAAT bid and two Sweet 16 visits really is?
That is a great question for Rick, ancsu. Be interesting to see if you get a “substantial” response. It’s easy to find fault, but not as easy to provide answers. Just like politics.
I asked this same question about 2 months back to both Jiggs and Rick after similar complaints, observations and criticisms of Gott. I always was taught don’t just complain about something to me but develop a plan to fix your complainant. All I got was a SMH “beating” from a key master as if I was stirring up trouble by asking what you propose we do to resolve the ills associated with the program other than bitching.
I asked again because if someone can tell me who would have/how would they done better than the past four years of Gott then I would pull out my wallet and give more to the WPC immediately to go after said person with justified reasons. To date I have not heard a better plan.
Do I like Archie Miller as coach. Hell yea. Do I think he is ready for us now or that Gott deserves to be run off. Hell no. Outside of him all the rest I can see pros/cons and damn sure can’t see the past four years being better.
I consider myself a glass is “half empty” guy except when reading posts about NC State BB and Gott here at SFN. I think the point was the world is not falling as the headline would imply. He offered a 3-star kid on the rise that just so happened to get an offer from UK after he made a verbal committ. All you have heard from is his coach which may or may not have any influence on his decision. Plus the fact this kid is exactly the kind of player we have had success with over the years whereas our 5 star success (not so much). That spans several coaches with varying degree of overall success.
Regarding Ingram, by your own admission you did not think we would get him so how does this became a negative. Got was not holding back recruiting others just for him but rather if he got him great but if not he has his core and is looking for right fit into that core.
The only negative I can see is that the coaching staff for whatever reason did not think upon Lacey age and that he might dash after 1 year. Then again I am not sure anybody even Lacey himself expected to have the season he did.
Back to scrounging for a fifth year senior to fill out a team. Just like his first year.
So if you were the AD what is your great plan for NC State BB?
I was hoping for a better game from the refs. The inconsistencies are mind boggling especially on that big of a stage.K and Duke did a great job. Not many coaches would ride Allen like he did. I bet K worked the hardest he ever has for this one.Duke won with 4 freshmen. Only freshmen scored in the second half. At best two of them come back. So no you do not need a ton of experience and no you do not need to play together for three years to be good.
If two or three of them are lottery picks I will agree
RSo the argument changes again. Sigh.
No the reading comprehension problem continues because the opinions don’t match your “correct” viewpoint. SMH and Sigh
Say what you want about Coach K but I have no respect for a guy who take advantage of the system and teaches his guys to flop and play act like a bunch of pussies to win a game. He is part of the downfall of college BB and not better than a person who abuses tax loopholes to avoid taxes because he can.
“As jigs #s prove, we have a long way to go defensively before we can feel confident in making that kind of run (or more accurately) sustaining a high level of play throughout the season.”
The stats concluded Gottv at NC State was nothing more than a first weekend coach. Yet he made the Sweet 16 twice in four year years and beat the #1 seed to do it this year. Stats can be manipulated to support the conclusion one wants to make. Bottom line results can’t be dismissed so easily.
Maybe he was just upset at himself for letting his team have three straight possessions with shot clock violations while holding the lead?? He is a good coach but I recall him leading Kansas by 9 or more and losing a championship while at Memphis. So maybe he was too busy kicking himself for believing his own puff about this team that he end up failing to coach in the critical moments.
Still doesn’t mean can’t shake hands.
Yeah, I don’t go in for ANY of the PC crap. FWIW, that includes you hypersensitive honkeys trying to holler about PC crap and uniform standards.
Kid was just upset after a loss, wasn’t a slur, let it go.
Agree. In my opinion the bigger issue is that he and his brother refused to shake hands after and that their coach is ok with that lack of sportsmanship.
I saw where Harrison did not like the fist and chest bumps near end of game that Tank did with some teammates. Kind of puts the comment he made in context if that was his beef.
I would be curious what the thought police would say if Tank had lost and said “F you assh$&e” or any other thing besides the N word.
Before you guys jack Ryan off remember he screwed a kid trying to transfer. It’s well documented that he was an ass through the whole process.
Read the article.
“No one should think Bo Ryan is a bad dude. If that’s your takeaway from all this, you’re missing the point. Ryan is a great coach and one who genuinely does things the right way, and his reasoning for this isn’t as simple as “Oh, he’s just being vindictive.” That may be the case. It also may not. Either way, it’s beside the point.”
“Here’s the point: This is a bad rule that allows coaches to do things they shouldn’t be able to do when their players decide to transfer, one that speaks to the deep imbalance of personal efficacy in collegiate athletics. That’s what this is about.”
Every coach has put restrictions on transfers. In this case he overreacted some but no more so than Frank Martin at SC.
