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I’m not sure how anyone can defend Gott as a good coach, even with 1 Elite 8 and the extra pair of sweet 16s. In my book, good coaches are consistent, with teams that give solid effort every night, are fundamentally sound, and adapt to the personnel and officiating and the way the game changes. There have been a few years of those sprinkled in at best. And I say that as one who was baptized by fire living with SEC grad roomies during his stint at Bama.
What he is is opportunistic, a really good recruiter/salesman, and an above average motivator. He capitalized on a very weak SEC, inherited a very strong nucleus in Raleigh, and has underperformed here every year since the first. Every single one. An average coach can win in Raleigh. That’s been proven. You don’t have to be good or great. He’s neither.
He has played out to be Sendekian. I said it after the UNC-CH game. He has the program in better shape than it was in when Lowe left, but a third straight double digit finish in the ACC pretty well tells you where he falls in the pecking order of ACC coaches. It’s time to move on
He has played out to be Sendekian. I said it after the UNC-CH game. He has the program in better shape than it was in when Lowe left
Actually I think he will leave it in worse shape from a player standpoint. He had some solid talent when he came in and depending on what happens at the end of this year he could leave us with hardly a starting line up. And if he lasts another year it will be inarguable that he will leave it worse.
An average coach can win in Raleigh. That’s been proven.
I agree with most of what you wrote, but not this. You’re going to have to hire an above average coach if you want to consistently win in the ACC. An average coach is going to top out somewhere in the middle of the ACC. We’ve done that twice now….and we’ve done even worse.
I mean, recruiting and motivation ARE aspects of being a good coach. Especially in today’s game. But they aren’t the end all, be all, and if the third leg of the stool is fatally flawed (as is the case here), it will all come crashing down.
If we go out and hire somebody who can’t/won’t recruit (like Lutz) we would be similarly fatally flawed, just in a different flavor. Common mistake when a replacement hire is made.
When I suggested Lutz I only meant as a placeholder for no more than a year if nobody will come and work for AD Yow. I’d much rather go with either Miller, Keats, or Martin. Whoever is the most feasible. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-frank-martin-and-his-sideline-fury-turned-south-carolina-into-a-winner-151406835.html
Just to look at the “Sweet 16s” thing I went and pulled the Sweet 16 teams from the past 5 years. Here are teams that have gone multiple times:
– 4 times: Wisconsin, Michigan State, Louisville
– 3 times: Kentucky, Syracuse, UNC, Duke, Kansas, Indiana, Florida, Arizona
– 2 times: UCLA, Baylor, Gonzaga, NC State, Iowa State, Marquette, Miami, Michigan, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Oregon, Virginia, Xavier, Witchita State
– 1 time: W. Virginia, Utah, UConn, TAMU, Tennessee, Stanford, San Diego State, Cincinnati, Dayton, Florida Gulf Coast, La Salle, Maryland, Ohio, VillanovaSome things jumped out at me:
– A program may have a fluke year and make it once, but few mid-majors do it twice in a five year period.
– Move to 3 times or more in 5 years and that’s pretty much the blue bloods.
– Wisconsin has gotten way more out of less than anyone else
– Few mid-majors are really punching at high major level. These are Gonzaga, Wichita State, Xavier.
– NC State has done well and made it twice. That’s some nice company.
– Unfortunately for NC State, 7 other ACC programs have made it 2 times or more during that period. That means 8 teams in all have, or OVER HALF THE CONFERENCE. We can be doing well in the larger spectrum, and still not be doing that well relative to our peers. Tough neighborhood.
– Looking at the list of teams with 2 trips or more, we probably have the fewest number of weeks in the AP top 25 in that span. We’re not consistently good, but have gotten hot a couple of times in the end.
– Two teams have a lone Sweet 16 in that period, but also have a title that year — UConn and Villanova. Both teams maximized once the got into the second weekend.
– Buzz got those two for Marquette, but will probably push VT into that group eventually.As this relates to the “Sweet 16s show Gott can coach,” it does prove that there’s some correlation. NC State didn’t make the Sweet 16 under Lowe and only did it one time HWSNBN, so it’s not just the platform that is NC State that makes it happen.
At the same time, 7 other ACC teams have performed that feat (or more) in a similar span and this is a high major’s milestone. There’s something to be said for the level of resources, exposure, recruiting, etc. that are required to actually do it. NC State has to judge itself and its performance against those peers. We have lots of built in advantages. That milestone isn’t the rarefied air that some make it out to be, particularly not for an ACC team.
Yow has a stated goal that this Gott run a top 25 program. During the past 5 years, 26 teams have made it to the Sweet 16 twice. One could argue those are the top 25 teams, and that Gott’s hitting the mark. One could also argue that another 3-5 of the one time Sweet 16 team punch their second ticket this year. At that point, we’re not in that top 25 and fading badly.
I only suggested Lutz for the same reason. A placeholder to get who we want or get the money right for the next guy.
I agree. If he was still on staff, I’d be fine with that, though I would worry it would be putting off for tomorrow what we really need to be doing today, and making an excuse for not putting Yow out to pasture.
And the temptation would always be, if he instantly did WAY better with the inherited talent (probably would) to give him a little more rope. It’s easier, cheaper, etc. Do you trust NC State to be disciplined in that scenario? I don’t.
But yeah, better than keeping an open gasoline fire in full roar, when the players are this tuned out.
Now that he’s not on staff or really involved with a decent core of what can be salvaged for next year, probably a ship that’s sailed in any event. I don’t know enough about anyone currently on staff.
Good point. Let’s just get it done and someone with a pair make a big time hire. Of course we have to find the money 1st that doesn’t exist.
If we could fund the Reynold’s renovation, we should be able to find money to take care of our most important sport.
I’m with BJD. Clean break time. We have to get a coach in here we think is the person given that Duke, UNC, Louisville and Syracuse will all be making changes very soon.
rthomas44: Never give up! Our whole athletics department is run on the premise of blind faith. Why should the fans be any different? 😉
Thank you, Rye. I believe ya know what I mean.
Look…
Back in the days of transitions, I personally touted 2 coaches that would fit the bill.
One from Washington State, and one from Kansas State.
You guys remember how that went over? I do.
Maybe they can have a players only meeting and figure some stuff out. Maybe some former players can come in and show them how to rebound and stuff.
Gregg Marshall is ready to leave WS.
State should stop being State and go hire his a$$.
The dummies in Raleigh could have had him years ago if that hadn’t been the dummies they’ve always been.
McCallum
Rye,
The ONLY problem with your “If we can FUND Reynolds….we can Kick out Gott…”. THAT is in direct defiance (thanks to the Witch Hunt of Valvano and Dr. Monteith and also the politicking of the NC Legislature….thanks to Claude Sitton).The WPC’s charter is for “Capital Programs and Scholarships”. The WPC had to GIVE UP its ability to supplement Coaches. The WPC was the ONLY organization that honored Jimmy V’s “Buy Out” contract Clause. NCSU just said….UP YOURS…
Therefore, there would have to be a SEPARATE and ONE-TIME entity set up (presumably) by the Big Ticket Donors. They would then fund Gott’s “departure” and the entity would be dissolved. It would be done OUTSIDE of the charter and purview of the WPC. NO DONATION TO THE WPC CAN BE USED FOR A COACHES SALARY OR EXPENSES!….
I only quote this because I was told that there WAS a movement developing to “assist” in Coach Doeren’s exit late in the fall. It was, I wuz told, being discussed and there was a LOT of support ($$ committments) to it. It sort of went bye-bye after the UNC game….and the “Endorsement” of Coach Doeren.
SO, there HAS been talk and planning. NOW, is that same group texting or whatever about Coach G? I totally have NO CLUE….and this is NOT to start or confirm or in any way SPECULATE on such.
I am not of the financial resources to contribute and my share would be measured in the 10th decimal place….compared to the High Rollers.
Get THEM MAD. Get THEM TO TALK TO DR. WOODSON. THEY have all the cell numbers of the folks in high places….
Others may see it differently, but the WPC was somewhat “neutered” when all the stones were being cast at Jimmy V. Ironic, ain’t it. Remember that Dr. Monteith (and Todd Turner….GAG) also set HIGHER academic standards for Athletes than for the Student Body as a whole. That finally got pulled….
Rye, when I look at your list, I see flawed teams and coaches in 2 trip crowd and below.
Look at the 3-4 trip crowd. Solid fundamentals, she lid talent, complete rosters, and they play their tails off every night.How many of those inherited a roster? Or a recruiting class?
A few sweet 16s ain’t no better than cornering a market or making a good pick on the ponies or the market or finding that shiny nugget in a stream. There’s some work and a lot of luck. im not saying gottfried is just lucky; he’s clearly put in time and work, but he’s more a product of opportunity than a culmination of fundamentals, scheme, adaptability, and tenacity.
I of the Marshall and Lon Kruger persuasion last go around
Yall sound ready to track some tail numbers…
The tenor of this thread is so timely, guys, we have an 11 year anniversary coming up! Da Plane! Da Plane!
Gregg Marshall is ready to leave WS.
State should stop being State and go hire his a$$.
The dummies in Raleigh could have had him years ago if that hadn’t been the dummies they’ve always been.
McCallum
I have said this along since the gott ship started sinking. I think if we ante up Marshall will come here. I think he has done all that he can with that program and he knows it. He is from this area and I would bet he wants to come back, especially considering that K and Roy will be gone within a couple of seasons.
On the flip side he would be an absolute nightmare if UNC chooses to hire him.
If Yow makes a move (which I still dont believe will happen) then its imperative to reach out to Marshall then if that falls through throw the money at Arch and pray. Keats would have to be the 3rd option. But I really think Marshall is ready to move one. The dude seriously considered going to Bama of all places. I have to think NCSU can reel him in this time.
Ya’ll know a double digit win tonight in front of a hostile crowd makes all this go away, don’t you ???
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Ya’ll know a double digit win tonight in front of a hostile crowd makes all this go away, don’t you ???
which way we talking?
Ya’ll know a double digit win tonight in front of a hostile crowd makes all this go away, don’t you ???
Anyone who changes their mind over one game is way too emotional and incapable of logical decisions. Gott has shown his flaws since year two. They are now becoming more and more apparent either due to losing Lutz or Gott reprioritizing his life. He has to go but I fear he will make a mini run that will save his job.
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