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NC State is becoming a MAC school. This is clearly evident with our recruiting, and with the play on the football field. The 2016 class is no different as it will not break the top 50 recruiting classes. DD has won a couple of ranked in-state players over the last two years but for the most part he has missed on almost every primary target player during his time at NC State. We are now at the point where we are not competitive at the P5 level as far as winning and being able to close out games. Just like a MAC school against P5 competition, we will score points and look respectable, but really have no chance of finishing. Against good P5 teams in the ACC, Louisville, Va Tech, Clemson, Fla State, UNC, we didn’t embarrass ourselves, but I think we knew the outcomes would be. That is sad. When Mike O’Cain was fired and Chuck was hired, all I wanted was an expectation we could win any game, and we had that for awhile. Now that is gone. It has to do with coaching…period. This past season the offensive play calling was horrible. The players were not given a chance to succeed and our best players were totally underutilized. Jsam is a football superstar but there is no imagination on how to use him. The defense is woeful. Teams score at will against it. The defensive backs are beaten consistently and I have never see DB’s coached to never turn around and find the ball, yet our’s do this constantly. Many passes are defended or intercepted by simply turning around and finding the ball, become the receiver. Teams are bigger, stronger, and faster than NC State and it doesn’t appear to be getting any better. Oh well, wait till next year.
Do you not see, right here on this very site you’re posting on, that most of your complaints are being addressed? Not disagreeing with any of your concerns, but you’re a little late to the party with them.
Aeight you are EXACTLY right, in fact I also believe you have read my mind. Now since you may have bordered on an “extreme” opinionated comment many of the sheep on here will scold you for such but no one has said it more absolutely correct. NC State plays at that level, NC State coaches at that level, NC State recruits at that level and NC State searches for coaches at that level. You want bold, here it is…the most exciting coach who recruited the most exciting players who had unbreakable pride for NC State was Chuck Amato. Now, he could of used a few good men directly under him to reign in some of the seemingly talented but dumb ass players (off sides on every play) but the guy had an identity. That guy had fire and that guy recruited Florida’s finest. DD on the sidelines has the appearance of a husband stuck in Belk’s with his wife. After this season I get it Coach D, I wouldn’t want to be there either.
Thanks for the kind words PackofMac. You are spot on with your statement that NC State operates at a MAC level. I guess Debbie forgot we were supposed to get “Alabama type players” with the DD hire. Now we are fighting against MAC schools and other FCS teams for recruits. Don’t look now, but basketball may be headed that way also. I know our athletic admins want to win, but dang it make a commitment to hire people that are proven, that have a record of success. Why can’t we go after coaches like Petrino when he was available, or other named proven coaches? Why can’t NC State shoot for the best and strive to be the best? Why do we have to take a backseat to anyone or just “settle” for what we can get? We have facilities, we have a fan base that can teach a dog about loyalty and are hungry for something. Our fans would travel to the end of the earth to support our teams and be loud about it if we had something to cheer for. Why settle for coaches who seem to be over their head at this level? Sometimes Gott seems to be like this also, although he has done a fairly good job in his first 4 years…but there is no reason NC State basketball should not be a ranked, championship contender every year…every year. We built Carter Finley on pure football excitement during the Chuck Amato years, sold out LTR’s, and darn near became a football school, but it soon faded. Here’s hoping DD can turn right the ship.
So should we rehire TOB? Or even Chuck the chest? And I am really bother about the”sheep” comment. I most certainly no a sheep. Would Lou Hotz in his prime be worthy?
Jeez, How hard is it to lure a dam SEC assistant. Come on! I’d take Lane Kiffen at this point.
He could ride in as The Lone Ranger to his PC.
Debbie put her foot in her mouth (again….shocker) in regards to recruiting the “alabama” talent. Now that DD is recruiting basically where TOB is that one metric she used as well as the declining season tickets is going to bite her in the ass. I feel pretty confident in saying if a change is going to be made Debbie will have no input in it.
Please stop insulting the side that disagrees with you. There are valid arguments on both sides of the debate so please stop with insulting the other side just because they disagree with you.
First, Aeight, do you think that Jaylen Samuels is not an Alabama-type player? Nyhiem Hines? Johnny Fraser? Reggie Gallaspy? David Grinnage? If you spend your time looking at recruiting rankings, don’t. I have already spent too much time talking about how rankings mean absolutely nothing (check The University of Miami’s recruiting rankings under Randy Shannon for a perfect microcosm of my point).
Second, as much as all of us share a disdain for our current football situation, why do you believe that DY is so blind that she is afraid to put any of our coaches on notice for their jobs? She’s given several coaches their walking papers (Lowe, O’Brien, Jordan [wrestling], Stubbs [volleyball], Harper [women’s basketball]) since she’s arrived, so why do you think she would be any different for Doeren? To add to the rhetorical questioning, who are you going to get at this point who is better than you currently have? Fans, myself included, have a misguided notion of the value of their alma mater’s coaching job, and these posts prove that lack of vision. We’re not a top-25 football program although we should be. If we do not get there by next season’s conclusion, I have no doubt that a change will be made. If that change were to be made today, who would be the replacement? Although I love a guy like Danny Rocco, who’s been successful at Liberty and Richmond, do you find a coach with an 80-38 career record in the Big South and the CAA to be an upgrade from your current one? And as for an SEC assistant, which one would say yes to an offer? Smart? Kiffin? Cutcliffe had the opportunity to coach at Tennessee where he had great success as a coordinator and turned them down to stay at Duke. Do you think Tennessee’s fans should have been upset about that? How long do you spend asking coordinators and assistants to come be your coach before you end up like Fowler did after Cal got Memphis to match our offer and then some and Belein had a buyout that Fowler never checked? The answer is you look like an idiot offering a job that no one wants.
The bottom line is that Doeren, for good or for bad, has next year to coach AT LEAST. If you’re mad about being a ‘MAC’ school, then watch MAC football. If you expect this team to vie for an ACC championship next season, you need to stop watching NC State football period. I would like to see how this team develops from this past season into next season. If I don’t believe the progress has been made in terms of player development by that time, I will be glad to prepare effigies and kindling to this fire. Until the end of next season, I’m not going to complain about being a ‘MAC’ school.
Please stop insulting the side that disagrees with you. There are valid arguments on both sides of the debate so please stop with insulting the other side just because they disagree with you.
Insult? That wasn’t even condescending.
I agree with much of what you say, Sacco, but I do think DY will be very hesitant to pull the trigger on one of her two most high profile hires. It’s essentially an admission that it did not work and it will not work going forward. That’s a tough way for her to go out.
“so why do you think she would be any different for Doeren?” – because it is common practice for recently hired ADs to remove a coach hired by the previous administration at the first sign of under-performance. However, ADs that are relatively new in their position are painfully loyal to their hires. Few ADs who have been at an institution less than 10 years are going to be allowed to lead a second football head coaching search.
“who are you going to get at this point who is better than you currently have?” – it’s a gamble. Maybe you roll a 7 maybe you crap out, but the alternative may be a decade of a younger version of Tom O’Brien (or worse).
And these conversations are fun/interesting for the MBs, and maybe some of the trustees have the same discussions behind closed doors sipping brandy and smoking cigars (wow how dated is that imagery). But nothing is going to happen anytime soon barring a colossal scandal or collapse.
Look, you gotta pay somebody. Enough buildings already. We need to roll out the dough for a splash hire. If we absolutely can’t do that, we gotta churn faster. Waiting 5-7 years for a guy to “pan out” is too long. You hire the coach and win some games, the facility upgrades at that point are gonna happen
Chuck Amato. Now, he could of used a few good men directly under him to reign in some of the seemingly talented but dumb ass players (off sides on every play) but the guy had an identity. That guy had fire and that guy recruited Florida’s finest.
So Amato had fire, huh? Well damn, that right there is brilliant analysis.
So basically, you’re saying Chuck was a good coach for NC State like the Lincoln’s had a good night out in Washington that fateful April night.
Both were ideal, except for that one tiny detail.
Now forgive me, I gotta go before I lose track of the rest of the flock.
‘Painfully loyal’ Daniel_Simpson_Day? I don’t see how she’s been ‘painfully loyal’ to DD. She gave him the extension (which deserved scrutiny both now and at the time), but I think you have a short memory because it was fully clear to everyone that when in Maryland she wanted to get rid of the only ACC coach outside of the Triangle who had won a national championship and get rid of an ACC champion football coach (had her FB coach-in-waiting ready to go who is now coaching pretty well at Penn State). Desperation in an AD is the quality you don’t want, and she doesn’t have it. I’m sure she is keeping feelers out to find perhaps that 3rd name on the list, which if you’re wise, you’ll find the guy who will definitely take the job first. Next, you find the guy who will make a few ripples in the pond, and once he’s on board, then you go for the boat-rocker to see if you can catch him. Bird in the hand, and right now, this canary (although struggling to breath in this coal mine we are currently in) may rise up to the surface in tact. He could die a quick death of toxic fumes also, and in that case, we bail out and dig another hole, but one more season will come and go before we know this for sure.
I have already spent too much time talking about how [recruting] rankings mean absolutely nothing
Respectfully, this statement is nothing short of asinine. That is all.
AliasTroll, according to Rivals.com, NC State had the #7 recruiting class in the country in 2003. Would you like to know our record for the following four seasons? 8-5 (2003), 5-6 (2004), 7-5 (2005), 3-9 (2006). From 2002 to 2015 Georgia’s LOWEST recruiting class was ranked 15th in the country, they won 2 conference titles (2002, 2005). The University of Miami had two recruiting classes ranked outside the top-20 (six were ranked in the top-10) during the same 14-year period, they won more than nine games twice during that period. I understand that having good players is essential, but recruiting service approval isn’t gospel. Would you like me to go chapter and verse on highly-ranked NC State players who didn’t live up to their rankings?
AliasTroll, according to Rivals.com, NC State had the #7 recruiting class in the country in 2003. Would you like to know our record for the following four seasons? 8-5 (2003), 5-6 (2004), 7-5 (2005), 3-9 (2006). From 2002 to 2015 Georgia’s LOWEST recruiting class was ranked 15th in the country, they won 2 conference titles (2002, 2005). The University of Miami had two recruiting classes ranked outside the top-20 (six were ranked in the top-10) during the same 14-year period, they won more than nine games twice during that period. I understand that having good players is essential, but recruiting service approval isn’t gospel. Would you like me to go chapter and verse on highly-ranked NC State players who didn’t live up to their rankings?
Cherry picking stats and teams doesnt really tell the whole story.
Would you rather I give you Houston’s recruiting classes over the last four seasons? Or TCU? And please tell me the ‘whole story’ because my ‘cherry-picking’ is omitting so much of the truth.
Sacco, I stated that DD has signed some ranked in-state players, such as the players you mentioned. But overall he has missed on almost all of his primary targets over the last 3 years. Such is the same for the 2016 class. Out of 18 commits for 2016 there are only two players even ranked at their position. One player doesn’t even have a star value. There is no signature player in the group. DD put all his eggs in one basket for the 2016 class to give it credibility and that was in Dexter Lawrence, well we know how that worked out. Another miss. I know a lot of people don’t put much credence in the “stars” and to a degree I don’t either, but there is one undeniable fact that holds true year to year…teams that recruit in the top ten, finish in the top ten. Of all the players you mentioned, Hines appears to be a good player, I like what I see in him, he has an edge. Of course Jsam is a superstar. Grinnage is a player that bad coaching wouldn’t use. Gallaspy is yet to be proven, didn’t really pick up the run game when Thornton and Dayes went out. Roseboro showed some flashes, and K Street has been AWOL for the last 2 years. Really looking forward to seeing Frazier. You want to see what star value will do for you, look at Clemson’s recruiting over the last 5 years. That’s how you build. It wasn’t done overnight and no one expects that here. But I do expect to see progress, in recruiting, and the play on the field, and wins against good teams. That’s how progress is measured and we aren’t seeing any of that. My point is we can be better and should be. You hire coaches to be better than you were. There are coaches that can make a program better and compete as a championship contender and I think NC State should strive to be that and not settle. Maybe DD can do it, maybe not. Not seeing it now but we are a patient bunch. We have learned to be.
We aren’t going to be competing for top 10, even top 20 recruiting classes in Raleigh. The deck is stacked against us in that regard. But we can absolutely do better than we are. And it is true, some (not many) programs find a way to win without all the stars. But that doesn’t appear to be happening here either.
“ ‘Painfully loyal’ Daniel_Simpson_Day? I don’t see how she’s been ‘painfully loyal’ to DD. ” – maybe you should go back and read my post again. You asked why she wouldn’t fire Doeren when she has shown a history of firing other coaches. My answer is because historically ADs don’t fire HCs they have just hired, especially in high profile coaching positions; it reflects very poorly on them. I didn’t mean to imply she was painfully loyal to anyone; just pointing out ADs are willing to accept short term below average or mediocre results from their hires.
And I think most everyone understands there is a direct correlation in college football between recruiting rankings and performance. Most of the teams in the top 30 in recruiting rankings are annual contenders for conference championships and top tier bowls.
The truth of the matter is that there is always a balance between bringing in good players and coaching them to be great. Kids who are stand-out high school players will have their rankings skewed by being wanted by top programs. By that rationale, Alabama will always have a great recruiting class regardless of the ability of the players to perform. Most fans want to believe that there is a quick fix. “If we just have a top-10 recruiting class, we would win despite not having good coaching.” And this is a fallacy that many fans of mid-tier programs have. FSU has very good players and a solid coaching staff this year, just like last year and the year before. What is the difference between the three seasons? Jameis Winston was the difference for two of those, but even he wasn’t good enough last year to beat a team that got pounded in the championship game. Our program should be improved after three years and the improvement is not discernible at this point. Some coaches have been let go or have moved on, and I (as well as others) hope that new coaches will show marked improvement in their respective areas. This game of building a college sports program isn’t like Algebra with constants and one variable. We all want success but claims that vast ‘improvement’ in one area fixes the problem is short-sighted.
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