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Let’s speculate.
Why? Did anyone expect the Martin twins to transfer?
The best case scenario will be that the new hire will be good enough to keep those in Raleigh that don’t want to go pro. I hope that it’s not a total rebuild. But it’s far from certain.
My opinion
1a) Ryan Miller Dayton for obvious reasons
1b) Marshall WSU – Proven successful coachFirst Ask archie if he wants the job, if he does, then move on to negotiations and close the deal
if he says he is not interested then quickly move on and tell Marshal that he is our number one choice and only choiceI think Wade will be a very good acceptable option and would not be disappointed if Yow targeted him first, or gave the impression that he was first after 1a and 1b went nowhere
2a) Will Wade VCU (great personality, worth any risk to move on, IMHO)
3a) Cronin Cinc (low risk, proven commodity, questionable ceiling)
3b) Chris holtzman butler (low risk)
3c) Keatts UNCW (Higher risk, good background and track record)Butler’s Chris Holtmann previously coached at Gardner-Webb. He has only been a head coach for 6 years. He’s 45.
Marshall could set this place on fire but I can’t fathom $4+million to get him. Archie seems like a natural fit, the timing is right, but I’m not holding my breath. I think State ends up with Holtman or Keatts.
I like Holtmann and Cronin more than Wade or Keatts. That’s why I list them as hopeful candidates on the 2 line.
Don’t get me wrong, I think that Wade or Keatts may end up working out, but nothing about either of them says “can’t miss.” I think with what I’ve seen out of Holtmann and Cronin, we’ll meet my goals for this program — take the next step to be a consistent top 25 team all year, year in and year out and be a team that can beat anyone on any night, while throttling lower tier opponents.
We need a massive influx in killer instinct because we’ve had virtually none since V. The good news is that 1A/1B, 3A/3b and my hopefuls on the 2 line all have it. With anyone on that list, NC State would be something like this:
I don’t want you to be the guy in the PG-13 movie everyone’s *really* hoping makes it happen. I want you to be like the guy in the rated R movie, you know, the guy you’re not sure whether or not you like yet. You’re not sure where he’s coming from. Okay? You’re a bad man.
I don’t see Cronin as “can’t miss”. From wiki:
Let’s speculate.
Why? Did anyone expect the Martin twins to transfer?
The best case scenario will be that the new hire will be good enough to keep those in Raleigh that don’t want to go pro. I hope that it’s not a total rebuild. But it’s far from certain.
Our greenskeeper at the club is the Martin’s first cousin, he told me at length why they decided to transfer. when he was explaining this to me we both had on NC State shirts, we are both fans, he was not trying to badmouth NC State or Gotfried, he just told the facts that he heard, not second hand, not hearsay, just the truth. I tried to discuss this on packpride and got banned for life.
Those are pretty average results indeed. You wonder if he could do more with, well, more. Competition is certainly stiffer.
the only player that is irreplaceable is Malik Johnson, point guard and maybe Maverick second.
but I worked 30 years for at&t and they said everyone is replaceable, its like taking your hand out of a bucket of water, somebody will take your place-Freeman may have graduated by then and could walk to another team and play right away, I think he is a key
-Dorn cant waste another year, going nowhere
-I would rather have Kapita next year than abuYou wonder if he could do more with, well, more.
That’s the multi-million dollar question. But there was nothing in K’s tenure at West Point that would lead you to expect him to become the GOAT at Duke.
Here’s a sad thought: On paper, Cronin would look like a better hire than the last several.
Why? Did anyone expect the Martin twins to transfer?
Wrap this thread up is speculation isn’t desired or interesting.
Yeah, I heard last week that when the Martin twins left, they had nowhere to go. That just doesn’t happen, kids transferring blindly into the wilderness like that. “Program” kids, too. We should have known it was all irrevocably on fire then, but c’est la vie.
We probably ARE better off searching now, at least we have Markell and Kapita in tow (if they can be convinced to stay), and the timing is better for Arch (he would have wanted to coach this year’s roster).
Regarding Cronin – you do see a steady improvement. How much of that is the result of the quality of the competition diminishing is another story and indicates the “risk” in him as a candidate.
Of course, a bigger question is whether or not he would take the job. I believe Cincy is his alma mater.
His teams play some ugly basketball, but ncsu needs to be a tough team.
Yeah, I heard last week that when the Martin twins left, they had nowhere to go. That just doesn’t happen, kids transferring blindly into the wilderness like that. “Program” kids, too. We should have known it was all irrevocably on fire then, but c’est la vie.
We probably ARE better off searching now, at least we have Markell and Kapita in tow (if they can be convinced to stay), and the timing is better for Arch (he would have wanted to coach this year’s roster).
If only someone had been talking about how bad the transfers were under Gott and that it was a bad sign of how he runs things. If only…
BTW no to Cronin. His teams play hard but he seems like a minor Sendek upgrade to me. Low risk and low reward.
For me, my definition of can’t miss is a guy who is going to get us consistently in the top 25, year in and year out, and all season long. I think Cronin and that defense will be able to do it, particularly with the players he can recruit here. He’s doing it this year with one of our castoffs (Washington) and a guy that we were too big for (Clark) as his top 2 players. I remember his teams smacking us around at least once.
He’s a line 2 candidate though. I’d much rather have Miller or Marshall (if either will actually come). Having said that, we’ve gone with line 4 candidates the last two searches, so Cronin would be a better hire than we made the last two times, and a lower risk hire than Sendek was (his hire was a lot of how I view Wade and Keatts).
I see a lot of risk with Wade and Keatts. Maybe they hit big, but maybe they’re the next DD. Listening to a recent interview with Wade, he seems a lot like Pastner did to me about 5-6 years (a young wonder kid coach that is likely to burn out or Peter out).
Rye – how much of that is due to his conference though? He has elite takent for his conference. How will he handle being on the other side of that equation.
Let’s speculate.
Why? Did anyone expect the Martin twins to transfer?
The best case scenario will be that the new hire will be good enough to keep those in Raleigh that don’t want to go pro. I hope that it’s not a total rebuild. But it’s far from certain.
Our greenskeeper at the club is the Martin’s first cousin, he told me at length why they decided to transfer. when he was explaining this to me we both had on NC State shirts, we are both fans, he was not trying to badmouth NC State or Gotfried, he just told the facts that he heard, not second hand, not hearsay, just the truth. I tried to discuss this on packpride and got banned for life.
Uhhh, care to share? Promise I won’t ban you for life.
Regarding Cronin – you do see a steady improvement.
Unless you look at NCAAT performance.
I don’t think Marshall is that difficult to read. Had we done our due diligence, a competent AD might have hired him when Lowe was hired; he should’ve at least been among the top of the plan B candidates. Second go around, he should’ve been choice #1. Pieced together from plenty of news reports where he’s directly quoted, and a little inside scoop, my take is that he didn’t come the second go around because we didn’t offer a long-term deal with enough incentives. I think it was probably comparable to what Gottfried was offered. Given his family’s happiness in Wichita, the really strong team he had coming back, it wasn’t an offer befitting his ability and success. I don’t think the Yow factor, at least personally, played in to it at all with him. Yes, Smart shouldn’t have been offered first, but had the right deal been presented, I think Marshall still would’ve been commanding our sideline. And I think it’s a completely inaccurate characterization of him to think he wants the spotlight, or needs to be the big man on campus. That’s about the furthest thing from the truth. He’s very humble and down to earth. He’s incredibly hardworking and doesn’t put up with a bunch of crap. It’s simply not all about the bucks. The guy has long arrived and shown he can win with less.
Rye – how much of that is due to his conference though? He has elite takent for his conference. How will he handle being on the other side of that equation.
In 2010-11, 2011-12 and 2012-13, Cincy was in the Big East. That league was stronger than the ACC those seasons. The Big East put 4 teams into the Final Four during that period and had a title winner. The ACC didn’t have a single FF team.
During that period Cronin was 11-7, 12-6 and 9-9 in league play. Against Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville and ND, they were 1-4, 4-2 and 1-5. Against the ACC during that period, they were 1-0 beating FSU in the tournament.
My take? Inconclusive, but at least he has experience and some track record of playing against heavyweights. Those line 3 candidates have not.
Want to see something gaudy? Check out Arch or Marshall’s records against Power 5 leagues.
If you want to talk Cronin, you must also assess how he did in the Big East, which was much more akin to the rigors of the current ACC. His best finish was a tie for 4th in 2011-12. That was his first and only Sweet 16 team.
He’s a good coach – but I’m just not sure good enough.
Maybe there is a Buzz Williams-type hire in store for is. NOBODY saw him leaving Marquette, much less for the basketball graveyard that is VIRGINIA TECH. Not sure who’d that be, but I welcome it with open Wolfpack paws.
I checked out Holtmann’s 3 years against Power 5 teams:
2014-15: 3-4 (including a win against #5 UNC)
2015-16: 3-2
2016-17: 5-0I prefer Holtmann over Cronin as I look at this data more. He’d be my 2 line and I’d be very happy if we hired him.
Thought we have some pig-farmers with deep pockets (i.e., our own wealthy donors) — what’s our hold-up?
Pig farmers want others to Pork Up. MG did improve paid attendance over Lowe….but not much over Herb.
Folks that are paying the tow and not saying “I ain’t going until….” can not give away their tickets other than to opposition fans. AFAIK, the AD budget is self sustaining. WPC does NOT pay one peso for Coaching Staff. Charter was ammended by NC GA and BOG. Yow runs it like a profit center and not a charitable organization.
Big Donors donate support such as Jets, cars, perks and such and purchase naming rights. There may be some help in buying out MG, but not funding, on a continuing basis. Read Fedora and Williams contracts. Rams Club is a major component.
Pardon a political fact, but NCSU was neutered by the General Assembly via their appointees on the UNC BOG. We would have to revise our “charter” and our BOT would have to start the ball rolling.
WPC dues and fund raising are for scholarships and facilities. if you do the math, increases in ticket prices and concessions will have to fund higher salaries for coach and staff.
folks complain about paying more and not getting more wins and boycotting. folks like me with paid up LTR’s in FB and BB will pay what the new are or will be.
I totally agree that we need to be above $3.5 Million….and it is easy to figure out how many MORE tickets we need to sell as well as increases for existing LTR & season tickets.
we had a “clean sheet” discussion for FB, but the hard realities of our business model put that in the “venting….but not realistic” category.
Wade? Clemson has first dibs on him. He and Archie do battle later on. No one can track Piggy One as Mr. Murphy pulled the TN out of Flight Tracker. where is social media when we need them?
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