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Actually wulf – what I would tell you is that is shows that when your top choice turns you down, you may have to go down the list a little further.
You also better have a good pitch about not only why are you asking for them to take the job but also why they it’s in their best interest to do so.
Yea. I am not going to read anything good or bad into tweet.
And I am pulling for the flyers.
If Arch comes here – great, he is my a1 candidate. If not there’s others. What has made these job searches disasterous is the hires after the big fish turned us down:
Sean Miller and Marshall were available in the Lowe search.
Archie was available as was Lon Krueger (I think Dana Altman may have been available as well.)Have a plan – execute said plan, unless it’s something you drew up on a bev napkin at the Angus barn.
Yes, and also what Wulf said right below you. These guys all run in the same circles, as do their agents. You get 1 A-Lister, 1 backup option, then 1 “rip cord.”
Having the right backup option (and it’s not necessarily just “hindsight is 20/20” looking back on our whiffs, yours truly profiled Lon Kruger and was surprised at how good his resume was once I scratched past the surface) is absolutely critical, as much so as playing our cards right with Arch, Papa Miller, and Morgan.
Has anyone besides me thought of the possibility that Yow or someone else in the AD has Morgan’s number and called her to see if Archie has an active interest in being our coach, before the trigger was pulled on Gott? Stranger things have happened. If I was the AD, and knew someone close enough to Morgan to do it, I’d have it done. If she said something like, “yeah, Arch and I have discussed it many times, and he’s pretty happy in Dayton, but I’ll work on him”, it would’ve made pulling the trigger on Gott much easier, not that it wasn’t easy as I see it anyway. I’m thinking the timing of the firing was our statement to Archie, “Here you go – we we’ve got the door open early for you to show you we’re ready for you. All you have to do is step inside when you’re ready.” Now, having said all this, about six weeks from now, Yow will have a PC to announce our new coach and it’ll be some off-the-wall candidate none of us have ever discussed, whom she’ll say was her guy all along. If that happens, she deserves to be lynched.
I wonder if places like Texas, Indiana, and Ohio State are, in part, not as desirable as previously the case due to having to share recruiting battlegrounds with the likes of Baylor, Butler, and Dayton, and effectively aren’t as good a jobs as some years ago. Although not as cozy as the Triangle, prior built-in regional advantages seem to be dwindling.
I mean, at the top, recruiting is already so nationalized I wonder if it’s a factor at all. But it does mean you can’t just have a “fallback” stock of local products to pick and choose from at will, similar to how Nebraska and Oklahoma stacked their football rosters before there were numerical limits.
It’s gotta sting for IU fans to see Purdue making a little noise, with Notre Dame and Butler already having established decent profiles.
One could also look at the likes of DePaul – it used to be able to count on a pipeline of kids through the city Catholic leagues, but with the boon of TV (and now internet) coverage, your friends and family can see you wherever you go. And the Demons have been garbage for the better part of 20+ years.
Archie’s wife graduated from State, her dad Steve graduated from State.
I think you folks are WAYYYY over stressing the mystical urge to “come back”.
It is a business and emotional appeals are worthless unless you have a structure in place which allow the guy in charge to implement his plan. The emotional appeal is simply icing on the cake and should be tasteful and subtle, so subtle in fact that it only HINTS at emotional connections. Think of it like a light smell in a kitchen that causes you to think and taste, it encourages you to look forward to the meal.
State doesn’t do subtly or taste, it is always about cheap, tasteless and blunt force trauma.
I’m not sure he is dying to get back to the Char-Grill and I doubt he wants the baggage of the fan base heaping all of their hopes and desires upon him.
In Raleigh it is always 1974-1983/Les-Herb.
McCallum
There may not be a huge urge to come back to Raleigh but you can’t underestimate being a fan.
Assuming Archie is a NC State fan- he went to school here, his wife went to school here. Assuming they are fans, as fans you want to see your team win. What better way to get that than be the coach.Archie’s wife graduated from State, her dad Steve graduated from State.
State doesn’t do subtly or taste, it is always about cheap, tasteless and blunt force trauma.
Damn that is LOL funny because its true
do you remember that Roy Williams at Kansas turned UNC down when they went with Matt Doherty. then 3 years later, as I remember, they fired Matt and Roy turned them down again and then something changed his mind? was it Dean that twisted his arm? I remember them saying that Roy was their last hope to stay in the family because Self from Ill was their second choice.
Did Roy really want to stay at Kansas or was this a strategy for negotiation?Could there be parallels with Ryan Miller?
Do we have a way of using this same strategy?DuckFatRules,
From my memory banks, the UNC deal was pretty clear. There was a coaching (and massive “program reputation….continuation” crisis in AFAMville. There was NO heir apparant. MG was not gonna come back. Phil Ford still had too much dust on his halo…..there was NO ONE to pick up the pieces.
Dean had hand chosen Gutheridge to “do right by him” and increase his retirement income. MD had come in and played the “arrogant child” card….and things were NOT happy. Dickie Baddour was a figurehead and a “Yes Sir….that is wonderful Sir….” to Dean and also the UNC BOT (reference THEY hired the Butcher and told him about it…). Meanwhile DB had irritated Larry Brown, one of Dean’s PICKS. It was a total disaster.
So, the Dean took over. ORW would NOT turn down Dean. It was a done deal after Dean “pointed out” that his beloved UNC, who had provided him an education…and while he was a coach, Dean arranged for survival money (Roy was the Bicycle Guy….he would transport a copy of Dean’s TV show to the Asheville TV Station early Sunday AM….get to visit his mom and also get a nice allowance for doing it….). SO, how was ORW gonna turn down Dean.
THAT is how, I remember, THAT went down. It was the PERFECT scenario….even to DES going to the airport in his Yuppie Volvo and picking up ORW and welcoming him back and then taking him to the DOME for his incarnation.
We did a really POOR parody on that with Sidney. It never made Broadway.
Today, we have someone that loves NCSU as our AD. NOW, she is a tough cookie….and if the “You are a grad, your wife is a grad….your kids can be grads (for free)….” scenario has any impact, she will use that.
At least we have the semblance of some Alumni loyalty. That is better than it was before.
There was a LOT of “stuff” going on Saturday night after the WFU rout. There was MORE serious stuff going on all day (after church) on Sunday. Let her play this out. She will do what is best, IMHO, and we will be better off.
Firing Gottfied was also a bit of a sticky (emotional) wicket for her. BUT, her comment….”Gottfried will, I hope, always be my friend….but I had to fire him for not doing what I hired him to do….”.
I wonder if places like Texas, Indiana, and Ohio State are, in part, not as desirable as previously the case due to having to share recruiting battlegrounds with the likes of Baylor, Butler, and Dayton, and effectively aren’t as good a jobs as some years ago. Although not as cozy as the Triangle, prior built-in regional advantages seem to be dwindling.
Texas and Ohio State are the same job. Both schools are completely absorbed by football, have virtually unlimited resources to throw at their athletic programs, and really don’t have more than about 27 fans who care deeply about basketball. They don’t want to get embarrassed, but beyond that MBB is the sport that fills the void between the bowl game and Spring Practice. The lack of fan support in Austin is pathetic. Rick Barnes complained for years about it. Week night conference games were never well attended and the high rollers were forced to buy MBB season tickets in order to have rights to the best FB tickets so those seats were frequently empty.
Roy DID want to stay in KS. I can’t get the details of what was said on the golf course, but I have to think the heartstrings were pulled wrt Dean’s illness and how much it would mean to him to know the program was in his hands.
With Arch, it’s less sentiment and more the pull of his makeup/ego…how tempting it would be to come back to town at a time of great change in the ACC, and become the new King of Tobacco Road. If YOU believe you have what it takes, you don’t sit around and hem and haw about “but what if I fail.”
He understands just enough of the history and the passion here to know he could build an empire if he does it right. If his wife and daughter are on board, and STATE DOESN’T STATE IT UP, I think it will happen.
MG should be easy enough.
DES = the Nose.its not that easy when we dont know who you are talking about. it is really hard to read a post when the reader has to stop and think, who is he talking about? by the time I figure it out, I have no idea what you were talking about and have to go back and re-read the whole post. I think DES is Dean Smith, but is it really that hard to type out the name?
I still do not know who MG is? “MG was not gonna come back. ” I have no idea who you are talking about?
your posts are very enlightening but the acronyms make them brutal to comprehend.
Who is DB? Daughertry Brad backwards?MG = Mark Gottfried, DB = Dick Baddour. context for clues, treat it like a little puzzle : )
MG can’t be Mark Gottfried in context of coming back to replace DES.
MG = Mark Gottfried, DB = Dick Baddour. context for clues, treat it like a little puzzle : )
MG can’t be Mark Gottfried in context of coming back to replace DES.
OK, i’m stumped too on MG.That’s not Bill or Wallace Guttridge.
From my memory banks, the UNC deal was pretty clear. There was a coaching (and massive “program reputation….continuation” crisis in AFAMville. There was NO heir apparant. MG Mark Gottfreid was not gonna come back. Phil Ford still had too much dust ….
do you understand the confusion you are presenting?
your posts are very good, I want to understand them, please make it easy on us old guys, I dont have the time or energy to treat everytihing as a puzzle and look everything up. I stay confused most of my day please dont make it worse. when I graduated from State (both times) there was no such thing as acronymsOh, Roo talks in riddles sometimes. I only use MG to mean Gottfried. No idea who he means as “MG” there.
I think there’s a huge bump leading up to Gott being left go, and then some initial excitement as candidates came up, but I suspect we won’t hear anything for another month. The constant hashing possibly makes it harder for us to talk with the candidates (because if they find out that it gets leaked if they talk to us, then they may not talk). Just sit back, relax and whomever it will be, it will be.
I think there’s a huge bump leading up to Gott being left go, and then some initial excitement as candidates came up, but I suspect we won’t hear anything for another month.
I think Grep Popovich will be announced as HC during team introductions Mar. 7, where we go on a tear to be the first and last team ever to win the ACC tournament playing from the play-in game. After that we’re seeded 16, becoming the first and last team ever to win the 16 – 1 game, thereby becoming the defacto 1 seed and running the table to win our first NCAA championship since ’83. Book your flights/hotel rooms now.
I think there’s a huge bump leading up to Gott being left go, and then some initial excitement as candidates came up, but I suspect we won’t hear anything for another month. The constant hashing possibly makes it harder for us to talk with the candidates (because if they find out that it gets leaked if they talk to us, then they may not talk). Just sit back, relax and whomever it will be, it will be.
this. I believe there is a nice thread on farming/gardening we can all get absorbed in, and well, there’s baseball.
MG = Mark Gottfried, DB = Dick Baddour. context for clues, treat it like a little puzzle : )
MG can’t be Mark Gottfried in context of coming back to replace DES.
OK, i’m stumped too on MG.That’s not Bill or Wallace Guttridge.
I am pretty sure that was a typo… MG could be MD (Matt Doherty) or It could have been BG (Bill Gutheridge).
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