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Thoughts:
– Tau: My point about keeping kids away wasn’t about transfers out. The transfers out mainly were because the kids couldn’t play at this level. Only 1 (Purvis) went to high level ball. You can say that’s PT. I can say that there wasn’t PT because there wasn’t the necessary skills. Doesn’t really matter.
My point about keeping kids away was the lack of recruiting an incoming class. I don’t buy the lack PT angle. It doesn’t impact the other top 20 type programs. Outside of Lacey, there wasn’t a slot on this team that a good freshman wouldn’t think he could take minutes from. A big clearly could look at our front court and see minutes there for the taking. All of our bigs (outside of maybe Abu) are severely limited in certain ways. On the wing, the Martins are solid, but they’re not scaring anyone away either. Even with Cat, there is obviously back up minutes at PG, and then the potential to be the starter after this season. So, there are minutes out there to get.
– CowDog: I suspect I’m one lumped into the group you can guess what they’re saying. Unfortunately, I am not alone there. Go to some other sites and you’ll see a large chunk of the fan base that is raising some similar questions. I think Gott’s here for a while, but these type of things and a zero man recruiting class are the types of things that will keep him from breaking through. I see HWSNBN v2 playing out, and I don’t like it. It’s the early phases, but it is there.
– BJD: Valid points about the incoming transfers. Without them, we’d be dead. My point was more that I don’t think that this is how you plan to build a team. I don’t think a top level program like ours in a tough league can bank on finding enough good transfers to make it work. For every Turner (thank god for him) and Lacey, you’re going to get a Harrow or Harris, who will surely transfer again. That’s a two year investment with waiting a year before it even plays out. Transfers are life preservers and thus far we’ve been very lucky. If this is our strategy is to swing for the fences and then take transfers, we’re in trouble.
I don’t contend you have to go 3 star across the board. The 1 McD AA, 2 top 80s and 1 top 150 model can work. About 1/2 the years we won’t get that McD AA.
I don’t think that system is a four letter word. We hear system and think of HWSNBN. All really successful coaches and college programs have a system. They have an identity and a style of play. Love them or hate them, Roy (run and gun), K (3s, hand checking and flopping), Izzo (football), Wisconsin (stall ball and swing offense), Bennett (packed line), Smart (Havoc), etc. immediately have something they can clearly point to that they’re trying to do.
Guess what, we do as well — UCLA offense (got abandoned this year), looking to break, and good rebounding. That’s what I like about Gott. After our last coach, I can at least what we’re trying to do.
I have been worried about that since January or so. Lack of PT for someone who deserved it. It is the one thing I don’t like about Gottfried. You can’t sit players like that on the bench and expect them to stay. I felt like he was the best offensive big we had. I wish Yow would sit Gott down and tell him to stop losing top notch players.
Another thing, as we develop a history of not giving players PT, it will make recruits think twice.
Rye – I think most programs struggle with transfers. I think gott is doing a good job identifying talented guys with decent character.
Again, what’s hurting us is something foreseeable. If we were going to be a sweet 16 team, it was likely either cat or lacy or Abu or Anya would have improved in such a way that they would be valuable commodities. We needed a solid pg backup before lacy decided to leave.
What we lost with lacy was a guy who thrived in the final moments of games.
“Another thing, as we develop a history of not giving players PT, it will make recruits think twice.”
Well, someone is going to get playing time, and that should make recruits think twice also. In other words, they should be thinking that if I go in there and bust my butt and make the most of my opportunities then playing time will take care of itself. Likewise, if I don’t do those things then I probably will be riding the pine. We had 6 players average over 19 mins PT this year, and three more average double figures. It seems to me that under Gott, those that are deserving of more PT get it, those that are not, don’t.
The KW thing is baffling to me. I wholeheartedly agree with the comments saying he won’t be an impact player in D1 as a transfer. He’s gonna have exactly the same role. Unless he steps up his defense; in which case, why couldn’t he do that for us? So it’s a strange move. I think Gott clearly trusted him enough to thrust him in the game when we needed baskets. That alone should have told him it was only his defense holding him back. Which is what I just don’t understand, as he could have clearly improved on that side of the ball.
ZERO commits does not = ZERO quality signees.
There isn’t a single person in here that knows how the board is going to look in a month…No One.
Yet, many take up the same wash & rinse critique that has already proven senseless, and quite polarizing. Opinions are one thing…accusations, and willy nilly clairvoyencey, another.
I have been worried about that since January or so. Lack of PT for someone who deserved it. It is the one thing I don’t like about Gottfried. You can’t sit players like that on the bench and expect them to stay. I felt like he was the best offensive big we had. I wish Yow would sit Gott down and tell him to stop losing top notch players.
Another thing, as we develop a history of not giving players PT, it will make recruits think twice.
Walton, he was our best offensive big, but what did we lose on the D side with Kyle in the game? I hate to see him go as well, but as I said in my rambling post, maybe the signs he exhibited in practice led to him not playing more. We dont know. Maybe the coaches gave him specific things to work on and he told them where they could put their suggestions. We just dont know all the details, except we all have opinions on who deserves PT and who does not.
ZERO commits does not = ZERO quality signees.
There isn’t a single person in here that knows how the board is going to look in a month…No One.
Yet, many take up the same wash & rinse critique that has already proven senseless, and quite polarizing. Opinions are one thing…accusations, and willy nilly clairvoyencey, another.
willy nilly?
You really should stop minimizing other people’s opinions just because they differ from yours. If you have some information that says we will have some great recruiting class then by all means spill. Otherwise we are currentyl a 7 deep team with one guard. It is a legitimate concern at this point and a perfectly reasonable topic of conversation. Just as your opinion that Gott will bring in players is similarlly a reasonable opinion.
But the high number of players leaving before their eligibility is completed and a class of zero recruits is a big flashing red light whether you want to admit it or not.The results so far have been nice but as I stated before the question is will he go up or down. And that is also a reasonable topic of conversation which is what a message board is desgined for (discussion that is).
TJ can practically score at will in the D but hasn’t made much of an impact for the Suns.
10 points, 6 assists for @TonyWarrenJr last night in his first NBA start. He also did this —> http://t.co/1miPUZaGkF
— NC State Men's Basketball (@PackMensBball) April 15, 2015
Have to disagree with any saying that Kyle won’t be able to make an impact playing D1 ball. He’ll get a redshirt year of practice to work on his game and another year of maturity before he hits the floor again. Thought his best performance was the last six minutes in the first half of the Duke game. If he can become the guy who played those six minutes he’ll be a handful. Wish he could have become that here. He always seemed like a fighter that brought it out in others as well. Criticisms about his D I find fair though.
Good luck to him and I hope Abu turns into the guy I think he will.
Hope we find a backup point.It doesn’t impact the other top 20 type programs.
I think I have identified your problem. You are confusing our program with a top 20 type program. If we were a legit top 20 program, i.e., had finished in the top 20 for the past 5+ years, it would likely be quite a bit easier to get quality recruits to sign even when there are talented players like Cat, Lacey, Abu, or Anya playing their positions. Unfortunately, we aren’t there yet as a program.
I see HWSNBN v2 playing out, and I don’t like it.
I have no idea how someone who was a fan through the Herb era could think this is a legit comparison.
I felt like he was the best offensive big we had.
Many people seem to equate good range on his jump shot with being a good offensive player. His shot selection and, as a result, shooting percentage were poor. And he was the worst big we had at offensive rebounding and free throw rate. Those things are all important elements that help determine how good of an offensive player someone is. Top that off with being our worst defender among the bigs, and it’s not surprising at all that his playing time dwindled.
I wish he had stayed and improved in our program, but objectively it would have been hard for him to move up the depth chart barring injuries to others.
It seems to me that under Gott, those that are deserving of more PT get it, those that are not, don’t.
I agree with this.
“I have no idea how someone who was a fan through the Herb era could think this is a legit comparison.”
Not sure I do either but the BIG difference is we now have an AD rather than a cougar chaser. Yes Gott is her guy but I have no illusion she would not pull the trigger if the program sank to the depths of the last 5 years of the smartest coach in college basketball. After 5 years of his tenure I told many it was time for him to go and if the program under Gott settles into a similar steady state it might be time for him as well. At this point overall I’m satisfied with the program. Yes I can pick out some issues but the general situation is still quite good.
We seem to have the same off season conversation every year. Maybe that is an overall dissatisfaction with the program or maybe it is really some lunatic fringe thinking. I have no issue with the variety of opinion expressed even if I don’t always agree. I do see the same thoughts from the same people (including me) year after year.
We were 5-7 in the ACC with Kyle starting and getting starter’s minutes. We were 5-1 the rest of the ACC season with Freeman starting and Kyle playing a lot fewer minutes. We also made the Sweet 16 with that rotation. He did come in and provide a spark in two games we likely would have lost, but that meant it was a rotation that worked. It wasn’t just Lennard’s defense and rebounding, he was able to set screens for Cat and Trevor that Kyle just couldn’t do.
I’m not sure what else Gottfried could have done. If winning is the priority, then he did the right thing. I remember when Roy kept playing Larry Drew and the team wasn’t playing up to expectations. He finally switched to Kendall Marshall and the team took off. Drew did exactly what Kyle is doing now.
I also don’t blame him for Lacey, or not bringing in a recruit. He wants quality players, and unfortunately the guys he went after weren’t willing to spend a season playing behind Cat and Trevor. I’m sure Gottfried was shocked by Lacey’s decision. He knows Lacey won’t get drafted, and was sure another year in the ACC would help at least get him into the draft discussion.
The coach is in a tough spot now. Worst case is go in with the the seven he has, best case is convince Malik Newman to come to State. I doubt that’s happening, so most likely it’s going to be something in the middle like a serviceable juco guard. I guess we’ll find out before too long.
Part of the transfer strategy is using them as a BRIDGE until we are that consistent Top 20 program. I think we would have kept using them, but likely not quite as often/prominently.
Problem is, 2015-16 is THE YEAR to establish ourselves as that kind of program (coming off the S16), and we really can’t afford to waste it, “bad luck” re Lacey or not. It’s a bottom line business (as it should be). I’m glad the staff is working very hard to stop the bleeding and find some complementary pieces so we don’t lose our chance.
In retrospect, not sure we ever could have kept the “4th big” in the rotation happy. If we had to lose one, Angel of Death is the obvious choice, even though I really liked the guy. And if MG had the sense he DID have one and half feet out the door, his rotation adjustment makes even more sense.
And frankly, it wouldn’t have been fair to the other guys. MG said “no defense, no minutes.” The other guys were putting in the effort.
Read all 7 pages of the Lacy and KW decisions….and personally wish them the best. I also think Lacy would have been better served by staying one more year but he’ll probably make more money than I do so what do I know. Go for it and don’t look back.
My experience is with high schoolers, they pretty much hang around and not much declaring or transfering. Gott makes the big bucks and assumes the big kick in the butt if he fails! Personally, I think he’s doing a pretty good job dealing with 20 yr olds! Do any of you have kids in college…..think about it….LOL
I’m late to the game but here are my thoughts. I don’t understand it, I’ll never understand it, and I don’t want to understand it. Trevor Lacy had a chance to be a part of something huge next year. We were set up for him to be the leader of a team that had all the pieces to contend for a championship. His stock could have rocketed. Has he not seen what happens when you come out too early, don’t get drafted, and languish trying to find a spot somewhere? Everyone thinks it won’t happen to them. It reminds me of an employee who left me by text one day with no notice. When I questioned him, he says “I’ve got to do what’s best for ME.” ME ME ME. I said doing things the right way is what is best for you and you are not doing the right thing.
I thought we had a TEAM. Come to find out, it’s just all about me me me. I know it’s about the bucks, but think about the guys who stayed, past and present, who got to experience being part of a championship. I don’t think they would trade it for anything. Same feelings for Washington for me. Sure, he had a lot of competition. If he stayed and got better, he would play plenty and be part of a great TEAM. Now he gets to sit for a year, and start all over. No commitment, no responsibility to earn your time, just ME ME ME. I used to not care about the NBA, now I just abhor it. I wouldn’t spend 5 seconds of my time watching it on TV or in person.
I am sure I will get just as excited next fall watching the guys who do play and pulling for them. We may still be pretty doggone good. But I just want to cry when I think about what has happened to college ball. Everyone for them self, jockeying for the pros, and no devotion to TEAM. They don’t know what they are missing.
I do not presume to replace the athlete’s thinking for my own. I do not know the whole of the situation. I do know that last season turned out well even if bumpy at times. Maybe that can happen next season or maybe not.
Oh. BTW, congrats to all of you that got their rips in on the thread that got shut down.
Outfreakingstanding.
Another like that and someone is going have to show me how to do more than just close down the stupidity.
Another like that and someone is going have to show me how to do more than just close down the stupidity.
Ah, the Most Glorious Purge.
One of Stalin’s favorite things to say “No person, no problem.”
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