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I’ve seen the Newman news where everyone pretty much thinks he’s a lock for MSU at this point. That was our better shot of the two in my mind given the position depth, Mo Williams connection, relative depth in the front court/wings. Next man up… whoever you are lol
I have steered clear of the ongoing questioning of Gott’s capabilities, and the job he has done up to this point, but something inside me says that had we beaten Louisville and moved on to the Elite Eight and lost there, we would still be having the same conversation about Gott. College basketball has changed drastically since State won a National Championship. Hell, our conference has changed drastically since then. Gott is four for four getting us to the dance and moving to the S16 twice. Shoot, in the 21 years before Gott we went to the big dance a mere six times. None of the three coaches prior to Gott had a winning conference record in their tenures, and the conference is arguably much tougher and more demanding since 2013. Gott is 92-52 (.643) overall and 39-31 (.557) in conference. We were 125-209 in the conference under Robinson, Sendek and Lowe. Personally, I look at Mark Gottfried as a stunning success so far. For him to be successful with four very diverse teams says that the man can coach, and coach very well, thank you. Counting his 3 years at Murray State and 11 years at Alabama, Gott has taken a team to the big dance 11 times in 18 years and is 371-206 (.643) overall. That doesn’t suck. Yeah I know, we all want to win conference and National Championships, but our expectations should be tempered with reality. Only one of 16 wins the ACC Championship and only one of 68 wins the National Championship. The odds are what they are. With the right mix of players those goals are not out of the question with Gott steering the ship, and I wont be surprised when that mix of players is on deck and more goals are met.
What do the last two coaching searches tell you about the desirability of the NC State job?
This has probably (as in a 99.9% probability) been discussed before, but I think our two rivals to the west have as much impact on attracting a coach as anything. That only thing the team can do about that is beat them, which they did this year, including the beat down AT unx. Any coach has to have the stones to want to compete with the blues (see Smart, Shaka). The same goes for recruits. Knowing how we got Gott, I think we’ve done pretty well. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t expect more, because I think more is achievable.
I think we could have had an awesome coach after Herb, had Fowler not been a complete nincompoop. After Lowe…….we were probably looking a little dingy.
What do the last two coaching searches tell you about the desirability of the NC State job?
but I think our two rivals to the west have as much impact on attracting a coach as anything.
Possibly, but only if every top coach is either completely satisfied where they are at OR they are complete f****** idiots. On a national level, every coach that has ambitions of a final four (or more) has to compete against nationally ranked programs and every power conference has consistent top programs. To think that Raleigh’s distance in miles from two of them is a significant detriment doesn’t make any sense and is just a cop out.
bow-wow…
RED!
arf-arf-arf…
WHITE!
woooooOOOOOooooooo…
GO PACK!#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!cowdog: I sincerely hope that was in jest and was meant as a baiting statement……..
Dude, face it, if our fan base was a girl, you wouldn’t tell her your real name or where you live.
I have steered clear of the ongoing questioning of Gott’s capabilities, and the job he has done up to this point, but something inside me says that had we beaten Louisville and moved on to the Elite Eight and lost there, we would still be having the same conversation about Gott. College basketball has changed drastically since State won a National Championship. Hell, our conference has changed drastically since then. Gott is four for four getting us to the dance and moving to the S16 twice. Shoot, in the 21 years before Gott we went to the big dance a mere six times. None of the three coaches prior to Gott had a winning conference record in their tenures, and the conference is arguably much tougher and more demanding since 2013. Gott is 92-52 (.643) overall and 39-31 (.557) in conference. We were 125-209 in the conference under Robinson, Sendek and Lowe. Personally, I look at Mark Gottfried as a stunning success so far. For him to be successful with four very diverse teams says that the man can coach, and coach very well, thank you. Counting his 3 years at Murray State and 11 years at Alabama, Gott has taken a team to the big dance 11 times in 18 years and is 371-206 (.643) overall. That doesn’t suck. Yeah I know, we all want to win conference and National Championships, but our expectations should be tempered with reality. Only one of 16 wins the ACC Championship and only one of 68 wins the National Championship. The odds are what they are. With the right mix of players those goals are not out of the question with Gott steering the ship, and I wont be surprised when that mix of players is on deck and more goals are met.
In your opinion, lets say Gott gets in the tourney next year, do you think he draws interest from another program?
Personally I think we have seen the peak with Gott and if the recruiting doesnt pick up then we are dead in the water.
The more success MG has, the better our job looks the next time it’s open.
The more distance we put between the last coaching search and the DY “pity party” letter, the better. I still can’t excise that from my mind, even if it’s the only substantive complaint I have from her tenure. Really, REALLY bad for our brand.
Personally I think we have seen the peak with Gott and if the recruiting doesnt pick up then we are dead in the water.
Maybe we have seen the peak. Not sure yet. But he is good enough a coach/finder of players to at least keep us competitive. I don’t know where that leaves the fanbase in another couple of years.
Only us at nc state will look a gift horse in the mouth. Dave Doeren goes 3-5 in the conference… And he’s the guy. Also ran recruiting but let’s build him a statue lol. I love DD for our school by the way. I just want point out our hypocrisy.
Now Mark Gottfried in the more competitive sport has taken us to two sweet 16’s a top 5 recruiting class… But… He’s peaked, we need to move on, he can’t recruit, we know what we have with him lol… Wait what?
For us to be a engineering school a hands in the dirt school it’s hard for me to follow the logic of our fan base. With Herb I thought he was building something. Maybe 5 years too late but building something… What MG has done is nothing short of amazing and we are like “next”?
Billy Donovan and Calipari used us as a domino to get bigger checks. We were never taken seriously. We finally have someone who seems to love us like we love us and somehow it’s makes since to dismiss his success and discredit his recruiting despite having “2 line talent” by years end.
My mind is feeble forgive me for not following the logic typed here
^excellent post. Not to mention our biggest competitor is able to keep NBA starters happy for 3 and 4 years by providing goodies, incentives, and degrees while we lose guys who “go pro” which routinely are late 2nd round or aren’t even drafted. Mind you that has been going on ~25 years.
Big picture here, he’s done a great job thus far. He coaxed a sweet 16 out of CJ Leslie as a soph, good lord! The run we went on to end THIS season was Valvano-esque. I want a HOF championship coach too but there are about 5 of those alive and still coaching and none will come here. The rest are a crap shoot. MG on data alone shoots down any opinion against him. Personality wise he is a fit too.
backthebackagain wrote:
In your opinion, lets say Gott gets in the tourney next year, do you think he draws interest from another program?
Personally I think we have seen the peak with Gott and if the recruiting doesnt pick up then we are dead in the water.
As for your question, I’m certain that there are over 100 schools that would like to have Gott as their coach. The question is how many head coaching jobs are considered more prestigious than an ACC head coaching job that might have their feelers out. I can name a few that would be considered more prestigious from an historical standpoint, but not too many. But, consider that if UCLA were to can Alford, would you be surprised if they wanted to talk to Gott? I wouldn’t. Given his capabilities and his history at UCLA, I think he might be on their short list after going five for five. What programs would Gott covet that would be more high profile, and might be considering a coaching change? Not many. He’s not going to make a lateral move.
As for whether or not Gott has peaked, I find your statement amusing. Look, I get it that you don’t like Gott, but for Chrissakes, how can you say he has peaked? I’m not sure Gott knows what his peak is. Are you clairvoyant? How can you back that statement up? On what evidence? As for recruiting, I’m not concerned too much at this point. Come November there will be a few new quality players on State’s roster that will see quality playing time. Just because a guy “Duffners” and sleeps on airport floors doesn’t mean he has peaked, and that he’s damaged goods. For crying out loud, we got a horse in the race and you want to be a “don’t bettor”. Please, don’t ever stand next to me at a craps table.
One last point: I’ve never heard Gott address the question, but would love to ask him how much working as a college basketball analyst at ESPN for two years helped him to prepare for this job, and to be a better coach over all. All the time he spent with other high profile coaches, picking their brains, and watching how they ran their programs on an up close basis seems to have helped him become successful in a more challenging conference than from whence he came. Additionally, I’d rather have a coach who runs a clean program and is highly competitive than one who wins a bit more while directing his players towards AFAM classes. I’ll take integrity any day, and I’ll keep betting on Gott to “make his number”. You, mi amigo, keep betting on him to “seven out” and we’ll see how the dice roll. Good luck.
Only us at nc state will look a gift horse in the mouth. Dave Doeren goes 3-5 in the conference… And he’s the guy. Also ran recruiting but let’s build him a statue lol. I love DD for our school by the way. I just want point out our hypocrisy.
If you cannot make a decent argument without starting off with a massive fail of a straw man then why bother?
MG on data alone shoots down any opinion against him.
Yeah, um no. I have posted plenty of data to support my position.
I’m not sure Gott knows what his peak is. Are you clairvoyant? How can you back that statement up? On what evidence? As for recruiting, I’m not concerned too much at this point
You answered your own question. His recruiting has beeen falling since the 3 McD AA class with a 0 recruit class right now. You can certainlky say YOU are not worried but that does not mean it isn’t a concern.
From the “Coaching Change” thread:
HOF or “HOF level (loose definition)” coaches with salaries:
Krzyzewski $9.7 M
Calipari $6.4 M
Pitino $6.0 M
Self $5.0 M
Izzo $4.0 M
Donovan $4.0 M
Miller $3.5 M
Matta $3.4 M
Huggins $3.3 M
Crean $3.0 M
Ryan $2.9 M
Kruger $2.8 M
Beilein $2.5 M
Buzz Williams $2.3 M
Marshall $2.0 M
Bennett $1.9 M
Brown $1.9 M
Williams $1.9 M
Boeheim $1.8 M
Smith $1.8 M
Few $1.3 MAVERAGE: $3.4 Million / MEDIAN: $2.9 Million
“Next Tier” coaches based on salaries – Only includes those whom made the NCAAT this past season, not updated for job changes:
John Thompson III $2.8 M
Jay Wright $2.8 M
Steve Alford $2.6 M
Rick Barnes $2.6 M
Travis Ford $2.6 M
Scott Drew $2.5 M
Matt Painter $2.4 M
Mark Turgeon $2.3 M
Mike Anderson $2.2 M
Fred Hoiberg $2.2 M
Mick Cronin $2.2 M
Mark Gottfried $2.1 M
Dana Altman $1.9 M
Steve Lavin $1.9 M
Andy Kennedy $1.8 M
Fran McCaffery $1.8 M
Mark Fox $1.7 M
Larry Krystkowiak $1.6 M
Shaka Smart $1.6 MAVERAGE: $2.2 Million / MEDIAN: $2.2 Million
Gott is paid as a ‘next tier’ coach. For those among us whom are proposing that Gott is such a liability:
Do you propose that NC State should open up the bank for an “HOF level” coach? If so, do you think that the return on investment (ROI) will justify paying that coach around $3 Million? If so, which coaches on the list – that don’t make more than that already – would you feel worthy of such pay, if they were willing to move?
Which coaches on the ‘next tier’ list do you consider to be clearly superior coaches to Gott? Assuming a coach would need to see a ~20% raise to make a move, do you feel like the ROI would justify making a change? [Note: The coaches that have already changed jobs were left in to complete the data set for relative salaries.]
If the lists can be viewed as at least being representative of “Tier 1” and “Tier 2”: Do you feel that NC State is clearly receiving less ROI than other schools?
So next year are we expected to be a lot worse than our Sweet 16 team this year with a more experienced Cat Barber, Anya, Freeman, and Abu? That’s a pretty solid lineup if you ask me.
So next year are we expected to be a lot worse than our Sweet 16 team this year with a more experienced Cat Barber, Anya, Freeman, and Abu? That’s a pretty solid lineup if you ask me.
Just a few cautionary notes:
– Last year we had three true guards, and all could play the point. This year we have one;
– We would not have made the NCAAT without Lacey;
– Kyle Washington won a couple of games for us, and he is goneI’m sure Gott will fill in a blank or two with a juco or grad transfer, but the pickings are getting pretty slim.
Basically we are one injury from disaster.
So next year are we expected to be a lot worse than our Sweet 16 team this year with a more experienced Cat Barber, Anya, Freeman, and Abu? That’s a pretty solid lineup if you ask me.
As long as we do not have to play any guards we are good.
IMO the fifth year into a coaches tenure we should not be scaping the barrel for post grad transfers.
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