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I was pretty sure that was my point —> both sides use social media to distort facts and outright side.
Yep. We argree on this. Let’s help the board as a whole keep on topic.
I didn’t see the game in question, but there were posts on another site that Vitale was pumping State and Arizona together and saying that UNC and Duke shouldn’t be grouped with them. While I fully agree that they shouldn’t be together because UNC and Duke have taken cheating and bag men to a whole new level, this would not have surprised me. If this were just a Yahoo Sports report, these would clearly the talking points of ESPN, Nike, CBS and the NCAA. NC State would get lumped in with Arizona, Oklahoma State, Louisville, Auburn, USC and Miami and completely railroaded, while the blues would be protected. The best thing for NC State is the FBI’s involvement and that this is clearly so wide spread.
My point on Kapita/Pierre isn’t that this is a rare thing. Seen my earlier points about the desert wanderer. This has been going back a long, long, long, time.
My point is that NC State fans should get real. Part of what props this sham of a system up is the belief that everyone else is doing it, but my alma mater is clean. I absolutely believe there are varying degrees, and as Packi says we are likely on the cleaner side. We’re not totally clean though, Gott seemingly got his hand caught in the cookie jar (not surprising given how reckless he is in general) and there’s no way Yow didn’t know.
Christian Dawkins, a former AAU basketball coach and associate who worked for sports agent Andy Miller at ASM Sports, wrote an email to Miller at 9:52 a.m. on Aug. 29, 2016, that he’d been in contact with N.C. State head coach Gottfried and assistant coach Orlando Early.
There is no hard evidence that this shows anything other that an email contact, which in and of itself proves nothing. The FBI may have more evidence but from a legal perspective emailing someone is not a crime.
Smarter than the average bear
Of course Yogi. But the optics are what they are. And if you think Gott is clean then I have waterfront property in Kansas I’d like to sell you.
Wulf there is water in Kansas that’s connected to land.lol
But to Yogi’s point contact in and off itself does not constitute guilt or wrongdoing on the university’s part. Doesn’t look good but doesn’t mean guilt either.Keatts saying State wasn’t involved in any way now looks totally foolish.
What he said was that:
1. Our program (his program since he has been there) is not involved
2. The FBI has not contacted us about any investigation
3. To his knowledge there are no known issues around the program prior to his time1 is most likely true (and one of the things I love about him is that he is not interested in recruiting 5 star superstar players … the kind that are involved in this investigation).
2 is defintely true
3 is also most likely true for him (whether Yow knew or not is different but most likely she heard the same rumors and was part of why Gott was fired in addition to be a bad in game coach)Maybe I am mistaken but I was quite sure that Roy Williams said he was confident that UNC was not involved and yet they even have a player from several years back on the list. I highly doubt their list will end at three.
Coach K statement claimed he was in a cave with his team and knew nothing .. that would appear to be the most foolish statement.
Let the “it was only minor money” at UNC and Duke defense begin .. oh wait the media already started that. I guess we should have tried that in the 80’s over selling of shoes and complimentary tickets.
Two former N.C. State basketball coaches, including Mark Gottfried, were in contact with the associate of an NBA agent who had been disassociated from N.C. State…
If this surprises anyone, they clearly weren’t paying attention.
Not only were the DSJ rumors rampant last year, the rumored payoff amount turned out to be frightfully close to the amount mentioned in the news articles. If the damage can be limited to Gott’s tenure, then it is probably no big deal.
I think it will likely be scopes to Gott, we will vacate wins, and many programs will be much worse. Then we’ll all reset at whatever the new world order is. A lot of coaches and administrators will turn over in the process.
I think it will likely be scopes to Gott, we will vacate wins, and many programs will be much worse. Then we’ll all reset at whatever the new world order is. A lot of coaches and administrators will turn over in the process.
Would be my guess too. The bigger issue is the agents using money to lure the kids to be their future agent. Not all the money went to steer the kid to a particular school. Most of it was self serving for the agent.
Stan Van Gundy goes OFF on the NCAA….
If nothing else, good for a laugh…
Jay Bilas will be the next Commissioner…
POP!!!
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!At first I was concerned, but now not so much. Not one school has heard from the NCAA. Looks like they are staying out of the way while the FBI sorts through the madness for them. So far you have nothing that constitutes damning evidence under the NCAA, for State or the Blues. No proof the coaches knew anything, even if there were calls. You have a ledger that supposedly offers little details other than some minor notes. You have criminals providing this information to avoid tax evasion and racketeering charges, which makes them less than credible witnesses. I believe the NCAA doesn’t touch this, and just revamps the rules drastically. I also believe this pushes the NBA to move the their requirements to be much like baseball.
I also believe this pushes the NBA to move the their requirements to be much like baseball.
The ‘Baseball Rule’ — go pro straight from high school OR play a minimum of three years college ball — would in one step, going forward, solve a lot of problems…
Seems that the FBI should look at the NBA’s role in ShoeGate as closely, if not more so, than the NCAA’s….
For the FBI… Schools may be the small potatoes in this basket….That said, the FBI is not ‘interested’ in solutions, only ‘convictions’ to the extent the political landscape allows….
GO PACK!
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!That said, the FBI is not ‘interested’ in solutions, only ‘convictions’ to the extent the political landscape allows…
Lets not forget any lost tax revenue……Uncle Sam has to get his cut.
The FBI is seemingly there because there is a lot of undocumented money changing hands. The agents are possibly taking shady deductions. If they’re gifts, there’s probably not gift tax being paid. If they’re contractually binding agreements, there’s not income being reported by the receivers. That angle seems obvious, but those are all just small fish to get to the big whale.
There’s an angle though that is about the bigger NCAA for the FBI. I believe the NCAA and its member institutions are operating a lot of these things as non-profits. Not paying the kids is a part of this, and not paying them means that they also don’t have to pay them benefits (which is pretty important for a sport like football where someone can die or be paralyzed). I believe this is why the NCAA and the member institutions fight so hard against paying the players. Pay the players and they owe them benefits, they’re running a professional sports organization, and they’re not really non-profits.
I think we ALL know that the NCAA and the schools acting as non-profits is a complete sham, particularly with all the revenue flowing in. We can also probably also agree that some of the effective workers comp equivalent issues that are swept under the rug in the current system is egregiously bad. I would bet the FBI is going after that, and that’s the bigger angle.
As I’ve said time and again, where this is heading is the power five splitting away so they can pay players and get away with whatever they want. It will turn into universities having ‘club teams’ that really have little to do with being students.
And who is driving it? The shoe companies, the agents, and don’t forget….ESPN who makes more off of college sports than anyone! Heck ESPN will gladly fund the new power league with a lucrative TV deal just so they won’t be obligated to show two sunbelt or Ohio valley teams duking it out with 150 viewers because its part of their ‘agreement’ with the NC2A.Oh and BTW, State College will be a part of it, like it or not.
Part of GC would be OK to revert to a DIII model that says if you can get into this college and want to go out for varsity ball then go for it! But you can’t unring a bell can you?!Thinking about not being able to unring a bell and all of the money involved with “amateur” sports it seems there are two ways you could go.
1. Pay the athletes and go ahead and sanction the semi-pro team status that exists.
2. Ban all of the play between different schools and have intramural sports programs only.I don’t think people will go for option 2. I wish it where different but it seems that day is past and I only view that past day through nostalgia based on ignorance which Cowdog has pointed out.
hey guys… don’t forget that the $MONEY$ in college sports is not all BAD MONEY….
1. The money sports — football & basketball — pay for all the other sports and for those student-athletes, that’s an important part of their educational support and their total college experience…. I’d had to see that go away…
2. As important, if not more, the University is a very diverse community and the money sports — football & basketball — are the only ‘tie that binds’ that community for a lifetime and across generations … and a school’s sport teams and their story can become one factor that defines the identity of the current student body.
This team is writing the proverbial ‘Underdog/NobodyGaveUsAChance/Cinderella/RagsToRiches’ story — there are some students on campus today, that are tapping into that in positive ways, who will think ‘Me too…’ and who will make a little extra effort, a little higher grade, ask the right girl out, because of this basketball team…
I’d really, really hate to lose that…
College Athletes need to be full members of the student community, which requires living on campus, sitting in some classes, hanging out in Carmichael, the Student Union, the Snack Bar in the off season — not paid and treated like Staff employees….
GO PACK!
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!I don’t think money is bad. It is what the money does to some people that can be the problem. Breaking rules etc …
I think we have seen what money has done to those student athletes who play in revenue sports already. Separate dorms, separate dining facilities, and as unx has shown separate classes. I think the trend will probably continue in the same direction.
Please don’t misunderstand me I don’t think this makes the revenue student athletes bad but it does tend to separate them from the student body per se. imo.
You’re right F83…
There ain’t no football players living in Alexander these days…
but then there are 30K+ students, not 8-12k ( the enrollment 72-76 ), so a lot of separation would have taken place anyway…The facilities thing is primarily based on it’s perceived value as a recruiting tool with some ‘KeepingUpWithTheJones’ mixed in… mostly for football…
Currently there’s a 1000 or more student non-athletes who are enrolled and getting paid to work jobs all over campus… Paying athletes to pay ball would not set any precedent except with respect to the pay rate…
Personally, I have no problem paying athletes legally as long as they are students in every sense of the word… the latter would mitigate the ‘separation’ thing…
GO PACK!
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Botb – the baseball rule won’t help much. It’s true, the NBA’s rule does encourage / force kids who have no desire to attend college to do do.
However, the real reason this problem exists us because you don’t have a true marketplace. You have millions of dollars floating around and valuable producers for whom an artificially low wage cap has been set. Further, a regulatory body that controls the availability of the labor is not a federal, local or state government.
The is so great and the wage cap is so low that actors go around the artificially low cap and try to hide the money. Next time, these actors will set up legal entities so they aren’t money laundering (assuming they aren’t already doing so.)Further, a regulatory body that controls the availability of the labor is not a federal, local or state government.
OK… who’s that ?
the real reason this problem exists us because you don’t have a true marketplace.
True… but if Universities could pay athletes legally, would that not make a ‘market’ either within the restrictions of the ‘baseball rule’ or something similar or if there were no ‘restrictions’ ?
The is so great and the wage cap is so low
typo… What is so great? Supply or Demand ?
GO PACK!
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!I don’t think money is bad.
Dude! Its a GREAT thing if you earned it (and its in my Waddell & Reed dashboard, or if you got it the ole fashioned way, inherited it maybe, a little).. But being given it from unscrupulous people who do not have your best interest at heart and want to use it to control you is a bad thing! I’m thinking mob, loan sharking etc.
The point of a ‘loan’ is to control people and the DSJr was a ‘loan’. A loan does not necessarily violate any laws as far as income and tax evasion (from the recipients side).
Just saying.
… This is the most visible symbol of the UGA Athletic Association, a not-for-profit organization that in fiscal 2011 recorded operating revenues just shy of $90 million. That money enables the association to send its golf teams to Puerto Rico, track teams to Washington State, and Gym Dogs to Utah. Here and there, the Athletic Association also endows professorships and funds a few campus-wide projects.
As munificent as this is, this kind of spending is typical of big-time college athletics programs at universities across the country. The Chronicle of Higher Education recently estimated that college athletics is a $10-billion marketplace. What sets UGA athletics apart is that it can pay for its expenses without turning to the university for help.
Only seven other athletics programs at public universities broke even or had net operating income on athletics each year from 2005-2009, according to data provided by USA Today to the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics (for which I consult) …
For almost every other university, sports is a money-losing proposition. Only big-time college football has a chance of generating enough net revenue to cover not only its own costs but those of “Olympic” sports like field hockey, gymnastics, and swimming. Not even men’s basketball at places like Duke University or the University of Kansas can generate enough revenue to make programs profitable.
As a result, most colleges and universities rely on what the NCAA calls “allocated revenue.” This includes direct and indirect support from general funds, student fees, and government appropriations. In other words, most colleges subsidize their athletics programs, sometimes to startling degrees. …
In other Division I conferences, public institutions subsidized athletics programs with $9.6 million on average in 2009. In the Mid-American Conference, for example, average institutional subsidies rose from $12 million to $16 million between 2005 and 2009. Direct institutional support nearly doubled, from an average of $4 million to $7 million annually, while student fees contributed an average of approximately $7 million. …
Of course, athletics programs foster other, less-clearly defined but important benefits for their institutions. …http://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow2.aspx
I don’t think money is bad.
Dude! Its a GREAT thing if you earned it (and its in my Waddell & Reed dashboard, or if you got it the ole fashioned way, inherited it maybe, a little).. But being given it from unscrupulous people who do not have your best interest at heart and want to use it to control you is a bad thing! I’m thinking mob, loan sharking etc.
The point of a ‘loan’ is to control people and the DSJr was a ‘loan’. A loan does not necessarily violate any laws as far as income and tax evasion (from the recipients side).
Just saying.
I don’t think money is bad. It is what the money does to some people that can be the problem. Breaking rules etc …
I think we are in agreement or am I missing something?
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