- This topic has 19 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 1 month ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Read the game comments again this morning. A common theme is still criticism for the Wildwolf plays. I try to over-look “stupid” comments made in the heat of the game (we all do it and this game had fewer than any in my recollection) but a lot was said about the Wildwolf and how “wrong” it is. Let’s hear it. Pro and Con.
I wonder if they have done analysis of how well the play works. To me they kept going to that well when regular running play or play action would have worked much better
Smarter than the average bear
Grey, I honestly need to go back and watch the game and list those plays and the results. In the heat of the second half, it seemed we were playing Canadian ball because we only had two downs to get a first down after they direct snapped the ball to a runner for a yard. What were the results of those plays for the entire game and what is the opportunity cost of those plays. Watching Samuels in person for the first time was awesome because that kid has talent. He makes people miss and then he can drop the hammer on a defender. As stated on the game thread, FSU mauled Samuels on obvious passing plays going his way. Would the outcome of the game been different if Samuels or someone else had a shot in lieu of one yard gains. Who knows? Coaching is a —– of a job. It’s their job to reconcile on field results with the plays called.
It was a great game to watch first hand. My hat is off to #7 Sean Paul. That kid was jumping up and down waving a towel pumping his teammates up the entire afternoon. Fans, players and coaches really showed up.
In the heat of the second half, it seemed we were playing Canadian ball because we only had two downs to get a first down after they direct snapped the ball to a runner for a yard. What were the results of those plays for the entire game and what is the opportunity cost of those plays.
Wasn’t Jacoby Brissett great? Scrambling, shedding tacklers, until the defense caught up to him and the ball got knocked out of his hand twice trying to make a play? This is not criticism of Brissett. Nobody knows more than Jacoby that you have to protect the ball. My point is the same great defensive play that stuffed the Wildwolf blew up 2 “regular” plays for game altering fumbles.
Without the Wildwolf plays, Jacoby wouldn’t have lasted through the 3rd quarter. He was in on 86 offensive plays and those scrambles take a lot out of him. IMNSHO the Wildwolf is a better alternative than Leatham in at QB to give Brissett a breather. As it were he cramped up and had to come out after a scramble at a time when we needed him on the field.
We are being smart with the Wildwolf in that we are getting both Thornton and Dayes on the field at the same time.
Just as incomplete passes do not invalidate the forward pass, low or no gains do not invalidate the Wildwolf and we did score vs. FSU at least once, maybe twice. The read option we run is a well designed play tough to defend. Both Shad and Matt run it well. A no or low gain doesn’t mean they didn’t read it well either. Could be that the number 1 team in the nation, the one that held Clemson to 14 points defended it well.
Watching Samuels in person for the first time was awesome because that kid has talent. He makes people miss and then he can drop the hammer on a defender. As stated on the game thread, FSU mauled Samuels on obvious passing plays going his way. Would the outcome of the game been different if Samuels or someone else had a shot in lieu of one yard gains.
I hope you are not saying we lost because we ran the Wildwolf and only gained a yard a couple of times.
I trust that our coaches are trying to get Samuels and every other player the ball where they can do something positive with it. You said it: FSU mauled Samuels on obvious passing plays going his way. Seriously, Fast, what has that got to do with the Wildwolf being effective or not?
I don’t understand what is meant by “the ” play in a Wildcat set.
There were at least a 1/2 dozen different plays.
Some worked better than others…Typical of any formation.I’m pretty sure no one questioned the Thornton touchdown out of the set.
Folks probably dug the jet sweep, first down from the formation also.If Hines completes the pass when he was in the ‘Cat, peeps woulda’ pissed themselves.
I thought Thornton kept the ball too much out of the Wild yesterday. I thought at least one of the Samuels jet sweeps was with Brissett at QB. It’s like any other formation, you have to execute.
I thought Thornton kept the ball too much out of the Wild yesterday. <snip> It’s like any other formation, you have to execute.
Texpack, Hard to argue that last comment but the first has me wondering, how do we know he kept it too much? Thornton was the ‘QB’ when we ran the Wildcat (probably because he ran the Wildcat in High School.) When the hand-off option is not there, he must keep it.
You may remember at the end of the Presbyterian game, Josh Taylor came in and ran the read option with Nichols and was very successfully moving the chains when time ran out — averaging a little over 6 yds a carry keeping it when the Presby D covered the read. Taylor and Nichols are going to be extremely valuable on the Scout team when we play teams that use read option plays. I would guess that McClendon was “Winston” last week.
My take on the Wolfcat – offense has 10 players to block 11 (the ball carrier is the 11th). When you take the QB and split him wide, essentially you are now 9 on 11. now add to the fact we have not thrown out of the formation, the D can now put 8 or 9 in the box.
Until we throw and throw more than once to say we have done it, the formation will not be effective. The numbers just dont allow it. If this is a great formation, others would be using it also, but I think others realize playing 9 on 11 does not work.
Last comment – this formation might work if one team has superior talent and simply more speed to get around the corner. OT, Dayes, Samuels, and even Cherry and Underwood can make a difference but they are not superior to the teams we will see from here out.
Mike: That’s kind of how I see it as well. The way we run this formation effectively concedes the pass. You can telegraph what you are doing if you have a superior offensive line and superior talent. I don’t think we have either, particularly not against teams like FSU.
I’d personally like to see much less of this against Clemson and Louisville. We need balance and a run game, but we need a run game that comes out of passing formations. Even if the Wildwolf formation works to run, it also telegraphs the pass.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Texpack wrote:</div>
I thought Thornton kept the ball too much out of the Wild yesterday. <snip> It’s like any other formation, you have to execute.Texpack, Hard to argue that last comment but the first has me wondering, how do we know he kept it too much? Thornton was the ‘QB’ when we ran the Wildcat (probably because he ran the Wildcat in High School.) When the hand-off option is not there, he must keep it.
You may remember at the end of the Presbyterian game, Josh Taylor came in and ran the read option with Nichols and was very successfully moving the chains when time ran out — averaging a little over 6 yds a carry keeping it when the Presby D covered the read. Taylor and Nichols are going to be extremely valuable on the Scout team when we play teams that use read option plays. I would guess that McClendon was “Winston” last week.
Point taken. I probably didn’t phrase that precisely enough. Thornton kept the ball a lot more than he did in the first three games. You are correct in that he may have made the correct read every time. I think if you don’t want to run Brissett as a regular thing the Wild can add to the offense. I’d also like to see some passing from the Wild.
I like it as a quiver in the mix. I entered a somewhat lengthy post a few weeks ago as to why, so I’m not going to repeat myself here.
I commented yesterday that given the situation and circumstances, I didn’t understand 4 or so of the calls in middlish/late parts of the game, but I’ll keep it at that, “not understanding”.
I loved it early, as FSU was confused and on their heels. I loved the first play, as I believe it set a tone and put FSU d’s on notice, loosening them up and making them think. It played a roll in our early success. The formation was very successful early on. It played a roll in our other plays being successful.
But their D eventually settled in and adjusted. They pulled up the backers directly behind the line, in a few cases, concentrated at the off tackle (I’m assuming they had a read. It appeared to be a good one. This move countered the jet sweep and the back/TE release from the line, though some of their tactics were not exactly legal). We ran it a few more times for little gain. I was fine with that. Then we kept doing it, with FSU countering in the same way. I wasn’t a big fan of it, but ok, assumed we were verifying their reads and adjustments, that we were locking them in. But then we never countered?
It’s up to the back to make the reads, so for all I know, counters were called but not executed. For two or three of the plays, it did appear as if we were giving away a down (as someone commented earlier). I stated so myself at the time.
But I’ll keep it at “not understanding” and “appear”, for I know enough to know I don’t know enough. Given the totality of the offensive game plan and play calling, I have absolutely zero complaints. None. Nada. No one here, NO ONE (well maybe 1 or 2, but certainly none of those criticizing the general concept), including myself, knows enough to justifiably criticize one component of the play calling while understanding how and why it affects the rest.
In short, Canada gets the benefit of the doubt until he proves he shouldn’t. The sunshine crew will continue to bitch, but that’s what they do.
Three weeks ago, if told how the game played out, the coaches would be labeled geniuses. Now it’s time to nitpick?
offense has 10 players to block 11 (the ball carrier is the 11th). When you take the QB and split him wide, essentially you are now 9 on 11. now add to the fact we have not thrown out of the formation, the D can now put 8 or 9 in the box.
Mike, with all due respect, that comment (not you) is dumb. You’re showing you do not understand the basic concepts. The inverse is true. As for splitting the QB wide, do you not see a DB out there with him? Do you think the QB is split simply to get him out of the way?
Does Thornton’s height give us some sort advantage in the pre-snap reads, being able see over the linemen and recognize the defense? I don’t see Dayes being able to get a very good look back there.
Foose, thanks for the ‘splanin’.
What I “think I know” about the Wildcat fundamentals:
-shotgun w/ qb split wide
-direct snap to a rb/wr type playmaker
-often a man in motion (to determine defense man/zone/gap assignments
-every play is a “read” playWe scored 41 on #1 Florida State. I’m not worried about the offense. I believe the wolfcat does not deter from that impressive offense. In fact, I think it adds another strong dimension. You will notice that we will sometimes line up in the wolfcat, only to shift into a pistol, spread, or other more conventional formation. The inverse is true as well. This is a valuable tool that helps keep the opposing defense very basic, not knowing if we will shift late. Think of the formation as another way for State’s offense to dictate the game. Sometimes it will work big time in terms of yards. Sometimes it will not. Either way, it is useful and necessary. Again, 41 on FSU. Defense on the other hand…
The deep back in the old single wing (like Wildcat with a direct snap) could run and pass. Not one of our RB’s was recruited with passing ability in mind. We are making do with what we have. I’ve mentioned that Bo Hines played some “gun” WB in HS and he reportedly ran the Wildcat on one play and passed the ball. I expect we will see more of that as the season progresses.
Our coaches seem to think the plays we’ve practiced will work better than anything they could draw up in the dirt. We fans don’t seem to agree with them.
What?! Dirt plays are the best! I say we run the jet sweep, out of the wildcat, with Jacoby being the ‘jet’, motioning in from the left and receiving a direct snap while running at full speed, with the option to execute…
1) the option with the back as the pitch man
2) a reverse with the opposite wide out
3) the jet sweep pass with a crossing TE
4) a reverse option pass
5) a shuffle pass to the up back or TE
6) a double reverse
7) a double reverse pass
8) a double reverse, w a pitch man optionYeah! All of those!
I got more, but I’m out of dirt
Foose, with all due respect, JB is split out wide but mostly to get him out of the way. Our only real QB option is not out there to block. How many of us cringed when JB went down holding a leg? We have Leatham and a true Frosh (granted a very talented one) that are our backups.
JB is out there to get in the way but not block, and DB assigned to him leaves right away – I have isolated that to look at what happens. Now if we were to throw……..opens up something emtirely.
I was critical in the game thread about the wildcat. It was obviously not working. If there is a reason I am not aware of we are running it (like to set something else up) then I am open to changing my opinion of it. If it is truly to give Bissett some time to rest I will watch the next games to see if it is run right after he scrambles and is tired. That would make sense and explain why we ran it so much. But if that is the case why did they go away from it in the second half? I would think that is when Bissett was the most fatigued.
I do remember one of the late wildcat formations where we handed it off to the jet sweep guy, but the play was blown dead for a procedure penalty. I really think we were trying to setup a situation where we could attack the edge once the FSU defense was crashing down on the middle. It’s just unfortunate that the procedure penalty negated that play. I don’t remember any wildcat formations after this one.
Foose,
Is that some sort of “Pack Attack” play you are describing? I seem to have seen that direct snap to the motion man somewhere before!?!?!?Or is it a Shuffle Right or Left, without the motion….not sure, as long as they don’t cover the pitch man, we will score every play, right?
Of course this is all in jest, hope you understand the references…..
DOIf it is truly to give Bissett some time to rest I will watch the next games to see if it is run right after he scrambles and is tired. That would make sense and explain why we ran it so much. But if that is the case why did they go away from it in the second half? I would think that is when Bissett was the most fatigued.
Rick, think of it like a runner who paces himself early in a race so that he has energy to go full out at the end. The set is not necessarily used to rest Brissett after he scrambles.
The read option gave USF fits. It is a different preparation than the for the pistol or what whatever we are running with Brissett. I like what fosse said, “I know enough to know I don’t know enough to understand.” Or something like that. Most of us don’t know enough to know we don’t know enough to understand what the heck Canada is doing.
We have scored 40+ points in 4 games in a row. It’s time to stop nitpicking our OC.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
