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You can please all the people some of the time, and you can please some of the people all the time; you can’t please all the people all the time. If he was recruiting and signing marginal 2* and 3* guys just to have a warm body to fill out the scholarship allotment, someone would complain. When those marginal players transferred because of a lack of PT, someone would complain. He swung for the fences on some high end recruits and he missed. That sucks. If he has a contingency plan that means getting a marginal 2* or 3* recruit and maybe a transfer or two so we have enough guys for 5 on 5 drills then I’m ok with that. If we go into the ’15-’16 season with 7 scholarship guys and a half a dozen walk-ons I’ll be a little more concerned. Until then, I’ll be one of the wait and see guys.
First….the Title, how can I put this delicately, SUCKS!
I agree with the consensus on the title. Like it or not, it reflects negatively on Gott and thus on the basketball program. No fan of the basketball program should want that, since as already noted, that sort of headline gets picked up by other outlets.
Why would SFN want to promote a negative view of our coach/program? I think the answer is that SFN does not want to do that, which means a different title should have been used.
Like it or not, it [the title] reflects negatively on Gott and thus on the basketball program.
Is the title accurate? I think that it is and thus any “reflection” is accurate as well.
If you think that the title is inaccurate, then maybe you could explain why.
No. The title is not at all accurate.
In the space of those 24 hrs. Gottfried lost a 5 star that he never had in the first place, and he got a verbal from a “rising star?”
Hey. Not shabby. All in all those 24hrs. ain’t a bad day’s work.
Again, the title was loaded.
“For us, we’re going after the top guys and the guys we believe that can help us compete for an ACC championship or a national championship. I’m not going to do anything different.”… Mark Gottfried
That’s what Gottfried should be doing, and were he not, he’d be getting excoriated by some Wolfpack fans for that.
The “for” should have been changed to “to”. He was getting run down for reaching on a kid now he is getting run down by the same folks for losing him to uk. Good thing I have quick feet, changing direction
That fast usually breaks ankles.Many discussions run aground because there is no common ground on exactly what to hold the coach responsible for. But for me, this is quite simple. The good and the bad from any college program begins and ends with the head coach…
…If we focus our conversation on meaningful facts/observations, then it might be easier to walk the line between disagreement and being disagreeable.
Agree with this. Here is one way to to assess Gott’s accomplishments to date as our head coach:
2011-12:
Took over team that was 15-16 (5-11) in 2010-11 and had not made NCAA tournament since 2005-06
20-11 (9-7) regular season, 24-13 (11-8) overall
2-1 ACC tournament (2 point screwjob loss to UNC in semis)
2-1 NCAA tournament (3 point loss to Kansas in S16)
RPI 47, SOS 21
3 big wins, all in postseason: UVA in ACC tournament and SDSU and Georgetown in NCAA tournament
2 bad losses: Georgia Tech at home, at Clemson2012-13:
22-9 (11-7) regular season, 24-11 (13-8) overall
2-1 ACC tournament
0-1 NCAA tournament (bad loss to Temple by 4 points)
RPI 32, SOS 39
2 big wins: UNC and #1 Duke, both at home
1 bad loss: at Wake2013-14:
Lost starters Brown, Leslie, Howell, and Wood from previous season
19-12 (9-9) regular season, 22-14 (11-10) overall
2-1 ACC tournament
1-1 NCAA tournament (lost to #5 seed St. Louis in OT)
RPI 54, SOS 23
2 big wins: at Pitt, Syracuse in ACC tournament
3 bad losses: NC Central, at Wake, Miami2014-15:
Lost ACC POY Warren from previous season
19-12 (10-8) regular season, 22-14 (11-10) overall
1-1 ACC tournament
2-1 NCAA tournament (lost to #4 seed Louisville)
RPI 39, SOS 9
4 big wins: Duke, at UNC, at Louisville, #1 seed Villanova in NCAA tournament
2 bad losses: at Wake, at BCOverall:
Overall record 92-52 (.643), ACC record (including postseason) 46-36 (.561), Postseason record 12-8 (.600)
4 NCAA bids in 4 seasons, with 2 S16s
Has recruited well
Teams are typically competitive with the best teams in the country
Teams and players have typically shown improvement throughout seasons and careersAside from that performance that is reflected on the court, there have been no significant off court issues, and Gott has raised the overall perception of the program in the media thanks in large part to his media contacts and savvy.
I’m pretty impressed. The 2012-13 season was disappointing, but overall it feels like Gott has done a great job.
Some are saying that we as a fan base have now divided into Gott supporters and Gott opposers. All of us as fans wish for better results, but I really don’t understand the basis for people to be in the Gott opposers camp. Regardless, I am firmly in the Gott supporters camp.
Like it or not, it [the title] reflects negatively on Gott and thus on the basketball program.
Is the title accurate? I think that it is and thus any “reflection” is accurate as well.
If you think that the title is inaccurate, then maybe you could explain why.
Cowdog explained it perfectly:
No. The title is not at all accurate.
In the space of those 24 hrs. Gottfried lost a 5 star that he never had in the first place, and he got a verbal from a “rising star?”
Hey. Not shabby. All in all those 24hrs. ain’t a bad day’s work.
Again, the title was loaded.
but overall it feels like Gott has done a great job.
This is where personal evaluation scales come into play.
Good job?
Absolutely!Great job?
NopeNo.
In the space of those 24 hrs. Gottfried lost a 5 star that he never had in the first place, and he got a verbal from a “rising star?”You left out the reason for the article…the “rising star” may bolt to Kentucky.
“For us, we’re going after the top guys and the guys we believe that can help us compete for an ACC championship or a national championship. I’m not going to do anything different.”… Mark Gottfried
That’s what Gottfried should be doing, and were he not, he’d be getting excoriated by some Wolfpack fans for that.
Exactly.
but overall it feels like Gott has done a great job.
This is where personal evaluation scales come into play.
Good job?
Absolutely!Great job?
NopeAnd a lot of personal evaluation scales are unrealistic and unreasonable. :shrug:
The “for” should have been changed to “to”. He was getting run down for reaching on a kid now he is getting run down by the same folks for losing him to uk. Good thing I have quick feet, changing direction
That fast usually breaks ankles.but overall it feels like Gott has done a great job.
This is where personal evaluation scales come into play.
Good job?
Absolutely!Great job?
NopeAnd a lot of personal evaluation scales are unrealistic and unreasonable. :shrug:
And this is where the tension comes from. Your assumption that your view is the only “reasonable” and “realistic” one. :shakeshead
Great job?
You betcha!For the life of me I can’t understand what some Gott detractors were expecting after two decades of irrelevancy. Four trips to the big Dance, two trips to the S16 and no trips to the NIT. If you were expecting a couple of ACC Championships and two NCAA Championships to boot, then you might want to re-evaluate your expectations. Gott, in my opinion, has the program on the right track to become the kind of program that we all wish it to become. It takes time.
Back in 1980 Duke hired Army’s coach who was fresh off a 9-17 season, his second losing season in five at Army. His five year record at Army was a pedestrian 73-59 (.553). His first four years at Duke were even less impressive, as his overall record was 62-57 (.521), and in the conference he was an abysmal 20-36 (.357). It wasn’t until his fourth season that he took Duke to the Big Dance where they were bounced in the round of 32. In the ’82-’83 season Duke was 10-17 and 4-10. The following season ended up 11-17 and 3-11 in the conference. It took Coach Rat time to build his program. I’m sure Duke and its fan base looks back and counts its lucky stars that they didn’t give up on him during the years of rough sledding. I’m sure that Dr. Phil might want to ask Coach Rat’s early detractors, “What were you thinking?” This is not to say that Gott is the next Coach K. Only time will tell how he compares with the creme de la creme of coaches. Again, it’s just my opinion, but I believe Coach Gottfried deserves time and appreciation for the GREAT job he has done in resurrecting State’s insipid basketball program, and returning it to relevancy. As far as I’m concerned, he can sleep on all the airport floors he wants as long as we keep improving and dancing in March.
No. The title is not at all accurate.
In the space of those 24 hrs. Gottfried lost a 5 star that he never had in the first place, and he got a verbal from a “rising star?”
Hey. Not shabby. All in all those 24hrs. ain’t a bad day’s work.
Again, the title was loaded.
^ Ding, Ding.
You left out the reason for the article…the “rising star” may bolt to Kentucky.
“May”??? You could say that about “every” Top 15 commit that is currently “committed” to another school. If you are basing anything on the word “may” we may as well consider the sky is in fact, FALLING.
Cat “may” get hurt. Someone “may” not qualify academically. I could go on and on, but having the basis of an argument for the title of the thread being what “may” happen wreaks of the consistent negativity that most of the posters have been mentioning.
Again, I’m glad I could help the start this discussion, but the title (like CD mentioned) was loaded, and IMO, not accurate.
“The last 48 hours have been a roller coaster for Mark Gottfried” may be more accurate…
But, I think roller coasters are fun. A negative person would probably say roller coasters make them puke.I will agree that 7 players is not enough, but give the staff time. Things in college basketball recruiting have changed drastically even in the last 3-4 years. Heck, K is now recruiting OAD’s. The staff will most likely pick up 3 more “scholarship” players. There’s really no reason to have less than 10 “scholarship” caliber players on your team. Otherwise, we won’t be able to suit up for the “Red/White” game.
VAW82, I got no problem with any opinions and I respect all. I am going to say this just once. My problem is that my comment about someone else’s comment is by no means an attack on them. I said that the comment was somphmoric and laughable. That’s it. So my comments get washed out due to people having thin skin. The person was a Mod and I called them out for the inconsistancies. I have seen MUCH worse on here and those slide. All I want is some acknlodgement that hey maybe I shouldn’t have deleted that.
I don’t agree with the headline and that’s all I had issue with and no one individaul. So this is where CD mentioned that their could be some inconsistancies. More than anything I just want a reason or why? Your comment about ataccking the person never happened. When no one can give a reason why that happened then I assume someone is hiding behind their all “powerful” title. I don’t think I am asking too much.
As it relates to the topic at hand people have a right to their opinion. I just don’t want to see this fanbase become a joke because of expectations being unrealistic. Yeah I want a winning program. I also agree that the method of building a college program is very different than we were young. So for people to complain about transfers and kids leaving early for the draft stinks of being misinformed. Someone linked the list of available transfers the other day and it was close to 50 to 75 kids. That is a lot of unhappy kids. That is a market that a coach can’t deny that exsists. Like others have said NCSU will have difficut time to develop the program just through the recruiting process out of HS. It’s going to take some patchwork in a lot of years. The hope is that you catch that lighting in the bottle and on a couple of transfers and the kids the Pack has recruited to push them to another level and then the hope is the recruiting takes over from there. This year if Lacy would have stayed could have been that opportunity but kids will be kids. The solace we can take from Gott’s teams is that they have always improved as the year progressed. That has to count for something.
My “opinion” is that SFN has been fairly neutral about Gott in the way it has been moderated. This might be the first remotely critical thing I’ve seen. It raised my eyebrows slightly, but way too much is being made about a title.
If you can’t see the HWSNBN wars, just read this page:
– Camps
– I can’t understand how the other side doesn’t think…….
– A comparison to K. We just need one about Beamer to make that complete…
– The numbers at the ready to defend the stated position. I’m sure these will get updated. They’re always quite selectively picked to show the opinion of the presenter…….
– Reduction of expectations. Those with higher expectations have incorrect expectations….
– A reference to a failed former coach to prove we should be thankful for whatever we’re getting now….
– Arguments about word smithing of titles…
– How the message boards and forums are what is blocking our program. If only we controlled those better and manipulated the outward message it’d be all rosy……I think we’ll call this round the Clone Wars:
Victory? Victory you say? Master Obi-Wan, not victory. The shroud of the dark side has fallen. Begun the Clone War has.I said that the comment was somphmoric and laughable. That’s it. So my comments get washed out due to people having thin skin. The person was a Mod and I called them out for the inconsistancies.
No, actually you called me “ricky”. I will delete any post in which I am called that. It is “sophmoric” (to use your own term) and is a pet peeve of mine. My joke obviously hit close to home for you and I apologize for that. It was meant to be a funny way of saying “lighten up people”.
I can imagine numerous ways to title the post which would have been more accurate. The current title veers toward the NCSS variety, (a concept I don’t believe in and wish would die a quick, painful death) similar to the Trea Turner post which actually used NCSS in the title.
“Latest BBall Commit to Reconsider”, or “Shaun Kirk to Reconsider” are very accurate titles that do not editorialize. Kirk hasn’t made a final decision yet, so State is still in the running. If he goes to Kentucky, he goes. It’s not fair to include Ingram’s decision since anyone following his recruiting knew that State was a longshot, regardless of whether or not Gott had been on to him early in the game.
So I guess adding “Tikki Tavi” would be bad form too? 🙂 (Seriously, I’m just joking. Don’t take offense. I always pulled for the cobras anyway! And how do you get a laughing emoticon thingy in here?)
Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. Mao Zedong
Well thank you for responding. I appreciate that. I had seen where a few others had called you that so I thought it was appropiate. I guess they have eraned that right to call you that. Your comment didn’t hit home for me as much it was meant to belittle the comments that didn’t agree with the title and the connotations it presented. Never the less whether I called you Joe or Bob, to compare people’s opinion to bleeding vaginas is silly at best and condescending at worst.
I apologize for addressing you in that manner and that is the only thing I am sorry for as for the rest you know how I feel. I am good and I consider this put to bed.
And this is where the tension comes from. Your assumption that your view is the only “reasonable” and “realistic” one. :shakeshead
I did not say that only my view is reasonable and/or realistic. I said that some views are unreasonable and/or unrealistic. I don’t see that as a controversial statement.
For example, if anyone expected State to have an undefeated season and thus win the ACC and a national title within Gott’s first four years on the job, that was unreasonable/unrealistic. If we can agree on that, then it simply becomes a matter of where the dividing line falls between reasonable and unreasonable.
– The numbers at the ready to defend the stated position. I’m sure these will get updated. They’re always quite selectively picked to show the opinion of the presenter…….
Please elaborate on the numbers that have been selectively chosen to fit a particular perspective.
Without going back through the thread, I don’t remember many “numbers” being presented unless you are referring to my post listing the team’s records, RPI, SOS, and other data/info year by year under Gott. If that is what you are referencing, how was that information selectively chosen?
I did not say that only my view is reasonable and/or realistic. I said that some views are unreasonable and/or unrealistic. I don’t see that as a controversial statement.
You made it in direct response to Va’s post about it not being a great year (see below). I am not sure how else to take that.
Va post:
This is where personal evaluation scales come into play.
Good job?
Absolutely!Great job?
NopeTau post:
And a lot of personal evaluation scales are unrealistic and unreasonable. :shrug:Well thank you for responding. I appreciate that. I had seen where a few others had called you that so I thought it was appropiate. I guess they have eraned that right to call you that. Your comment didn’t hit home for me as much it was meant to belittle the comments that didn’t agree with the title and the connotations it presented. Never the less whether I called you Joe or Bob, to compare people’s opinion to bleeding vaginas is silly at best and condescending at worst.
I am shocked you are this upset about that comment. Especially given this post you made which makes mine seem very tame in comparison.
“ED89, CD, I was about to post the same thing two hours ago but got sidetracked. Insert Wolfpack instead of MG. The headline pisses me off. Just so sick and tired of some of the fans on here. They know who they are and just miserable people in general. Gott is doing all he can to find the right kids for the program. Dang right I want a championship team and I dare anyone to tell they want it more than I do! This negative attitude is for the fing birds. I hope we can sign this kid and it may parlay into the 2016 class but it will not be the end of the world if we don’t. “
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