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Our next possession we ran the ball twice — we successfully ran the ball earlier in the quarter — and threw incomplete on 3rd down — the same shovel pass that JaySam scored on earlier.
Grey: We ran the ball 37 times at an average of 3 yards per carry. That’s enough running to keep it balanced, but hardly a strategy designed to score points. As you mention, one has to credit the opponent, and FSU’s run defense was pretty stout. Yes we had a long drive, where we got 40+ yards off the ground to go up 27-13, but up until then we’d not done much on the ground.
I contend from that point forward, we were clearly stalling and playing more not to lose than trying to win. Your opinion there might differ, but I thought we puckered up and looked tight. That bad snap? Nerves from being backed up in one’s end zone. The ensuing drive? A couple of runs, a short pass, a penalty and then a punt block. We had gut check time and got some defensive stops (one after a big return) and grounded out a much needed first down to end the game, but I didn’t think momentum was on our side.
I don’t see how you can say that is “Bad” simply because you think it can be done at some time in the future.
As for going over the top, FSU’s best offense was the deep pass, either a fade or a vertical pass. Tate had 138 yards before he went down, including a 51 yarder. I suspect he was on his way to a 200+ yard game had he stayed healthy. If that doesn’t mean that we have a weakness in the secondary, then I guess we will agree to disagree.
I’m happy we won. I had said prior to the game that I thought FSU was ripe for an upset and that we could win this one. I sincerely hope we win out. I’m not blind to the fact that we got a whole lot of breaks in that game due to injuries and penalties, but I also am glad to see is rise to the occasion and take advantage of them. I think that’s pretty balanced.
Until we fix the special teams, secondary and develop some killer instinct, we’re going to be vulnerable to anyone on our schedule. Here’s to hoping that Saturday was a step in the process of learning how to win, and gaining killer instinct. We’ll find out when we play Syracuse.
Yea. It might have been luck. Actually, it probably was luck with some skills. Either way, this is the win the team needed and truly deserved after the past 5 years, and you can say blah blah hurricane blah blah freshmen quarter blah blah FSU was rusty but either way, it will hopefully improve the players’ confidence and will translate into more wins especially close games. We are truly in uncharted waters right now in the DD era (unless you want to count the Notre Dame win from last year). Let’s see how we handle Syracuse.
While all above are statements of the obvious…
Tate’s, inability to play with a “sprained” wrist for most of the second half also helped us a bunch.
More importantly, it’s clear that the Noles were not prepared to play NCState — they took us too nonchalantly. Playing at home, they were cocky from the start and in traditional Noles fashion, got frustrated with themselves, especially on defense, and made 10-12 penalties and more other mental/emotional mistakes.
In the end, this was the fundamental reason for our victory, which is not to take away from the fact that we played our best 60 minutes of football against a top 10 team in years.
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Rye – regarding the ground game, we did get it going in the second half. Even then, it was rough sledding, but the commitment to the ground game payed off at the end…see notre dame, see unc and should have seen Clemson.
These days most competent defenses can neutralize the running game early, but in the 4th quarter it yields huge dividends. We saw that Saturday. 3rd and 7 and Mac state runs for a 1st down when they knew it was coming??? Come on – when have we done that vs a team like fsu.
I contend from that point forward, we were clearly stalling and playing more not to lose than trying to win.
So I take it you would have been airing it out, risking an INT and stopping the clock on incomplete passes in that last drive. To quote Lou Holtz, “When you throw the football, only 3 things can happen and 2 of them are bad.”
I’ve read a crap load of comments about the game, yours is the one of the few if not the only one I’ve read say we were “clearly stalling.”
Grey: We ran the ball 37 times at an average of 3 yards per carry. That’s enough running to keep it balanced, but hardly a strategy designed to score points.
First, keeping it balanced is a strategy to score points. We, as you say, got 40+ yards off the ground to go up 27-13 in the 4th quarter. The scoring play, the shovel pass, is in essence a running play set up by the fake toss sweep.
Your whole post sounds like you were afraid that big, bad FSU was going to breakout any minute and pull it out against poor old NC State. Say what you want about those 138 yards. The only TD was a short pass where the FSU receivers picked Alston to free Tate in the end zone. That, Rye, was the only TD FSU scored. Our miserable secondary played the entire game and allowed one TD.
Sorry but I don’t think any of Tate’s yardage was “over the top” which was my point — not that he didn’t get some yardage off those deep sideline passes. Those completions IMO were the result of great throws and very good catches. You may remember from the USC game, it isn’t the team with the most yards gained that is always the winner.
Great job of managing your time outs, Jimbo. FSU was out coached the entire game. Our OC took advantage of the 2 starting LBs being out,just as FSU took advantage of Stevens being out. Having a good ground game and playing solid defense in not necessarily playing to keep from losing. With a 6 point lead, it just might be a sound strategy to win. As you say, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that.
Grey:
I’m one who would never take the foot off the gas until it was clearly out of reach. Up 35 at half? Push it to 49. Remind the players that UCLA pulled off a massive come back just a few weeks ago on TAMU.
I’m also one who doesn’t think a one possession game is safe. As you mention, it was one missed assignment that gave up a TD. Another missed assignment or missed tackle, and a 6 point lead becomes down 1. So we really want to put that game in the hands of our kickers to win it down one?
Hey, it turned out fine. It’s just not what I would have done.
To quote Lou Holtz, “When you throw the football, only 3 things can happen and 2 of them are bad.”
Wrong… Bear Bryant said that… or copied it… when Lou was still in school….
Jimbo
FSUwas out coached the entire game.with my edit… dead on the money….
We “beat them” in every sense of the word… from kickoff to post game….
GO PACK!
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!This was an upset victory very similar in caliber to those achieved by ECU and BC over nc state. Most coaches achieve a few per year hell its a statistical inevitability. I would read nothing more into this victory. Dave is still a long shot to overachieve this year.
This was an upset victory very similar in caliber to those achieved by ECU and BC over nc state. Most coaches achieve a few per year hell its a statistical inevitability. I would read nothing more into this victory. Dave is still a long shot to overachieve this year.
It must really gall some people that a Dave Doeren coached team beat the #12 ranked team in the country on their pasture and as b.otb said, “We “beat them” in every sense of the word… from kickoff to post game…” By no stretch of the imagination is State beating FSU even close to a mediocre team beating another mediocre team or a poor team upsetting a mediocre team as your BC and ECU example so feebly tries to indicate.
Sorry to inform you but after both lines’ performance Saturday, State has moved from “long shot” to “good chance” to over-achieve this year. The sun don’t shine on the same dog’s arse all day. NC State is long over due for some of that sunshine. Long over due.
Just to be sure I’m clear here, Doeren out coached Fisher and State out played FSU from KO to post game. No amount of bias against Dave Doeren can change that.
Greywolf wrote:
To quote Lou Holtz, “When you throw the football, only 3 things can happen and 2 of them are bad.”[quote quote=124354]Wrong… Bear Bryant said that… or copied it… when Lou was still in school….
Greywolf wrote:
JimboFSUwas out coached the entire game.with my edit… dead on the money….
I stand corrected. 🙂 Heck, nearly all that stuff Holtz said he read somewhere. LOL
Timing is everything.
Daper Dave plays enough teams ranked then he will beat some.
Alabama of the north they ain’t.
McCallum
I’m one who would never take the foot off the gas until it was clearly out of reach. Up 35 at half? Push it to 49. Remind the players that UCLA pulled off a massive come back just a few weeks ago on TAMU.
I’m also one who doesn’t think a one possession game is safe. As you mention, it was one missed assignment that gave up a TD. Another missed assignment or missed tackle, and a 6 point lead becomes down 1. So we really want to put that game in the hands of our kickers to win it down one?
Hey, it turned out fine. It’s just not what I would have done.
We didn’t take our foot off the gas until we started using the victory formation with a minute or so left.
So you are one who doesn’t think a one possession game is safe. So you would sling it around hoping to make it a 2 possession game? Let’s not start insulting one another by these kind of remarks. Doeren/Drinkwitz kept their foot on the gas with a strong ground game.
I didn’t say it was a missed assignment that netted FSU the TD, it was an illegal (IMO) pick they got a way with.
Rushing down court and jacking up a 3 trying to make a 2 point lead a 2 possession game with a minute left to play is not keeping your foot on the gas. That is just plain darn foolishness. Running the clock down, looking for a good shot is not playing not to lose. Doing this with 5 minutes to go might be considered as such. Same as Saturday. Maintaining possession until the clock turned to zero was a good, sound strategy. And that’s what I would have done.
Grey: I would agree that we should take the high road. I would suggest that right now you’re taking these responses a bit too personally. Those that doth protest too much suggest some sort of bias or connection to the staff.
Let’s be clear. Look at my track record. I’m neutral on DD. I publicly predicted 8-4. I said we could we’ll still hit it despite starting behind the 8 ball. I have a pretty realistic view of our program and what expectations are for our overall program’s expected results.
I say this because your comments seem based on being “right” about an upside for DD and this season. It’s great to be a believer, but one also has to be grounded too. Your responses are bordering on noise. Would you be saying the same thing if we tried to stall, only to have FSU get a late score for the win? I watched an Amato led team take a game away from a TOB coached team when TOB tried that very strategy.
I’m glad we won, but that game wasn’t perfectly played on our end. We also had the stars align. Yes, we still had to walk through the door and I’m glad we did. We haven’t many times in the past.
Maybe (and hopefully) we’ve turned the corner and will continue to do so. Time will tell and these next two weeks will tell us an awful lot. Outside of Clemson and VT (who we don’t currently have on our schedule), the ACC looks pretty weak to me. This is the year to make a move up the standings. I hope we do it.
Rye,
First off, I have no connection to staff but I am, as you say, biased when it comes to DD and will be as long as he is HC. I call that bias, loyalty.
I don’t understand what you mean, “trying to stall.” We dominated the clock the nearly the entire 4th quarter. Our defense stopped FSU’s offense allowing only a field goal. . As Choppack put it, “…regarding the ground game, we did get it going in the second half. Even then, it was rough sledding, but the commitment to the ground game payed off at the end…”
If we had not picked up a first down and FSU got the ball with less than 2 minutes to play and with no time outs, they would have had to do something they had not done in the second half — move the length of the field and scored a TD. Our D was putting the pressure on Blackman. I would have been disappointed but I don’t think I would have done it any differently. Do you not have faith in our defense?
You’ve criticized the Pack for stalling and playing not to lose but haven’t said what you would have done intead. Do you think we should have hung 34 points on FSU? Thats 10 more than freaking Alabama scored.
””
I actually think we played most of the 3rd and 4th quarters trying to hold a lead as opposed to trying to win. Even the last scoring drive, we were trying to run clock, and just happened to score. We were outscored (albeit by only a point) in the second half. Yeah, we got it across the line and that was great.
If your issue is whether we took the foot off the gas, I suggest that neither of us know. Only the coaches do, and they certainly wouldn’t say, one way or another.
Your issue originally was the questionable special teams, secondary play and lack of killer instinct. I contend we’ve had all three through DD’s tenure and until we fix them, we can lose to anyone. Heck, two of those cost us a game against a mediocre S. Carolina team just a few weeks ago, in a game where we doubled up yardage and first downs and won the TOP.
Maybe FSU taught us how to win. Hopefully so. Maybe with that we gained some killer instinct. I tend to doubt it. I think it comes from the top and some have it and others don’t. We shall see.
I’m still going with 8-4. FSU and S.Carolina have kind of offset one another.
Rye,
Special teams are manned by non depth chart players, except Hines returning kicks and punts. I don’t know Doeren’s philosophy but I’d bet it was play as many people as possible. (Keeps troops happy and could be a recruiting benefit.) So I don’t expect significant improvement in most special team play until the depth gets better.
We kicked off into the end zone except after the safety. Our place kicker was 3 for 3 on EPs and 2 for 2 on FGs. Hard to improve on that. True enough we had a punt blocked but that could be attributed to FSU and not poor punting, although I’m sure the punt unit will get special attention this week.
To you we were running the clock out trying to keep from losing. To me we were using our conditioning and overall line play to wear FSU down and score. The 75 yard drive to start the 4th quarter ended with a 14 yard shovel pass that was set up by earlier running the toss sweep. We didn’t just happen to score while we were running the clock out. While Drinkwitz may have been just been stalling, I assert he was doing his best to score against a very good FSU defense.
Rye, I can’t believe you are so willing to discredit our offense by suggesting we just happen to score while trying to run the clock out on a 75 yard drive. That just isn’t done against FSU defenses.
The program’s biggest win in decades and the topic is “playing not to lose”. Guys back up a bit and simply enjoy the win. In a few games we will have ample evidence pro or con but for enjoy the ride.
I think that is probably the biggest challenge for us as fans. We still don’t know how good a team FSU or even So. Carolina are. That make sit extremely tough for us to gage how could a win this was. Aw in is a win, but on over a top 15 team is even better. I don’t believe FSU to be a top 15 team but time will tell. It’s my biggest complaint in College football. It take 4 or 5 weeks to know who is good and who isn’t. Especially an FSU team with 2 games under their belt. When I see us play, I don’t think we are a top 25 team, but we are close. Our defense isn’t nearly as great as we thought, mainly due to the secondary. Our offense should keep us in any game. With our schedule, its a tough road ahead. Hopefully our guys are up for the challenge.
Grey, you said special teams will only get better when we have more depth. Yet in other posts it is the deepest and most talented roster we have had in years. Which is it?
On to the Orange. How do we stack up versus them? I know little about how they have played other than not well enough to win but half of their games and that we are favored by 12. (But then last week F$U was also favored by 12 a couple of days prior to kick off).
I’m very happy we won and will leave it at that. We will learn more about our team in the next two weeks than we did in Tallahassee.
On to the Cuse. They throw the ball around, so we’ll see how our secondary does. They put up a decent number of points against LSU. This is a game that we should win, but absolutely could lose if we aren’t ready to take care of business.
rye there we agree.. We should win but to win we have to play as smart as we did against FSU (plus clean up some problem areas). So each game we have looked a bit better but so has all our opposition (maybe excluding FSU). If we continue to progress I think we will have a good season (maybe even a great one) but if we don’t FSU could well be the highwater mark. Such is college football. It is really hard to get a read on teams early in the season but I see some good sparks.
Grey, you said special teams will only get better when we have more depth. Yet in other posts it is the deepest and most talented roster we have had in years. Which is it?
Perhaps I should have said more athletic roster. Doeren/the Pack use players not on the 2 deep or 2 deep who do not play such as some OL for special teams. Exceptions are the obvious positions — long snapper, holder, kicker, punter and return men. The is not unusual. Holtz called these teams The Rat Pack. Some teams use the best players they they have. I believe Alabama is one. Some players request — nearly demand — to play on special teams.
So special teams will only get appreciably better as the roster gets more athletic. I still say we have better depth on offense and defense than we’ve had in years. It’s not an either or thing unless you take one or the other out of context. We have better depth on offense and defense and generally our athleticism needs to improve for the Special Teams to improve. We will have to revisit this when we add the 9th or 10th assistant.
Now that wasn’t so hard was it? With a little thought you could have figured that out for yourself.
On to Syracuse… Thank goodness the game isn’t played their QB and receivers vs. our DBs. In the old days the team that won the war in the trenches usually won the game. I believe we have the advantage on both sides of the ball. There are other factors involved in winning football games. Cuse causes turn overs. We protect the ball. Interested to see how that goes.
Our DL consists of 8 players who share playing time although not equally. Keeping our D-line fresh and rotating 3 LBs could be the difference.
I don’t think Stevens is going to play and if he does he will be subbed out for rest. I’m giving up the tired conversation that Alston can’t play CB. One thing I noticed watching the FSU game was he brought a load when he hit the receivers. Safeties too.
I’ll be there watching and yelling for the Pack. I hope we have to listen to the fight song a lot on Saturday.
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