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This is fascinating stuff, and puts into focus what I’ve long suspected about our basketball program, relative to others.
Since the 2005-06 season, State has sent the tied for 15th most (tied with Duke) players to the NBA in early entry. That’s six players (only one of which is actually in the league – JJ Hickson). That means we are recruiting solid talent. That’s good news.
The bad news is it is not paying off with wins and losses. In fact, our win percentage is a whopping .586 during that same time span, which is second worst of group only in front of the powerhouse USC Trojans with a win percentage of .512. That is really average production. In short, we are doing less with more.
(only one of which is actually in the league – JJ Hickson).
Which obviously brings into question the supposition that State is squandering talent. Personally, I think that a number of those early entries were grossly overrated by both the media and State fans. Their absence from the NBA tends to support my opinion.
However, it is important to maintain perspective…..the real issue is wins/losses and everything else is secondary.
Because one makes bad choices to enter the NBA draft means very little. Ced Simmons, Josh Powell should never have gone early, and they went after 2 (not the one and done as the survey suggests). Calvin and Lo should have stuck around another year. Who told these guys to leave early?
Yes, they are talented, but talent does not always equate to wins. Chemistry is just as important as talent, and when a team is loaded with talent only looking out for #1 there are going to be issues. Someone explain how Word of God with CJ, John Wall, and Dez Wells on the roster has a barely .500 record? Frankly I was always a little concerned with CJ for this reason – how that team did not steamroll people was beyond me.
I could not link the original article for some reason, but I think the point of this thread is we have talent so are we not winning more? HWSNBN and Lowe are 2 good reasons – they were not able to develop that talent. Simmons and Powell left because of HWSNBN. We dont even need to discuss Sid.
Their absence from the NBA tends to support my opinion.
It absolutely does. It also makes you wonder about the advice they were given. Who is advising them? Was it Lowe? Gott? Did they go against the grain so to speak?
Lowe brought a bunch of these guys in. He couldn’t coach a lick, we all know that. Turns out his advice may have been equally faulty. So it isn’t yet fair to pin any of this on Gott. He is also bringing them in. I would hope we could all agree TJ Warren is a supremely talented lottery caliber player.
The fact that only one of the early exit guys in in the Association argues that the issue here is not simply squandered talent on the college level. A series of less than good coaches and possibly some bad advice to there young men. Would they have had better chances if they stayed another year? Maybe maybe not. By all evidence TJ Warren is much more likely to stick in the association and hopefully for him this was the proper time to make that move. Suspect he is getting much better advice than those guys mentioned already.
How many were actually drafted and are not in the league versus just not drafted. Advice to leave at a certain point is more determined on probably draft position of that year as compared to the following years. So, maybe it was still a good financial decision to leave at that time even if they’re not still in the league at the moment.
Simmons – 15th pick First Round
Hickson – 19th pick First Round
Costner – undrafted
Brown – 52nd pick
Leslie – undrafted
Warren – TBD
Don’t forget we had several years of the worst coach in the history of the NBA in that time frame. I wonder what it looks like if you only consider the last three years.
Hodge-20th pick
I personally don’t think these kids take into account what the coach tells them. JMHO I think a lot of these kids are skeptical if a coach says they should probably come back. May think the coach has motives that don’t necessarily jive with his goals. This kids listen to their parents, friends, agents, etc. Maybe I am being too cynical but that’s how I see it.
^ Further…Coaches know what the kid’s mindset is.
There are but a handfull of mentors that could influence a guy that THIS year isn’t your year, when said kid is wanting to move on.
IMO this just illustrates the following:
1. HWSNBN was an average coach at best.
2. Lowe was a terrible coach.
3. It is possible to attract top caliber talent to N.C. State.
4. Some of our players (Simmons, Hickson, Warren) made good decisions about leaving early.
5. Some of our players (Costner, Brown, Leslie) made bad decisions about leaving early.I don’t see anything here that we didn’t already know. *shrug*
It is possible to attract top caliber talent to N.C. State.
We’ve always attracted top talent. We have not always done much with it.
We’ve always attracted top talent. We have not always done much with it.
I don’t see anything here that we didn’t already know. *shrug*
Theres a pic I saw recently of one of V’s last teams. Had Del Negro, Monroe, Corch, B. Howard, C. Brown, Shackleford. We have not had that type talent since the 80’s, sorry. Talent vastly over estimated. And when we did have any talent there were MAJOR deficiencies elsewhere on the court. Usually at the dominant position in college, point guard.
I would argue that over the last 20 or so years State generally has tended to bring in talented athletes; Schools like Duke tends to bring in talented basketball players. In my mind there is a big difference. If you just look at the guys that left last year, each one of them had major flaws in their game. The only one that I think can eventually overcome his flaws is Lo Brown because his was more related to inexperience in the position and shooting is something you can improve through reps and mechanics.
I agree with a couple other points that were made regarding lack of supporting cast and team chemistry. There’s a video on youtube of State playing Kansas in 1987; if you watch that game you’ll quickly realize that we’ve not been close to that level of talent since.
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