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State shook off the road loss at Purdue and — after six early turnovers tonight — used a solid effort to defeat Wake Forest 78-65. State improved to
[See the full post at: State Wins ACC Opener]It will be interesting to track the foul difference when Luckie calls State games this year. I pulled some stats (I think it was last season) and the difference in the number of fouls called and the number of NC State players fouling out, in his games versus all other NC State games, and all other games that he called versus NC State games was staggering. It was way, way too different to just be a statistical outlier.
In fact, as I write this, I remember that the numbers were especially skewed towards Warren. I think I found that Warren basically never fouled, but when Luckie called the game, he had 4 or 5 fouls every game.
We saw the same thing with Lacey tonight. The announcers said he’d committed 9 fouls all year coming into tonight’s game. Tonight he had 4. It seems like that trend is continuing.
Corrupt officiating and the ACC’s propping up of Duke/UNC at the expense of the league has really killed my love of college basketball. I don’t think either thing changes until Swof is gone, and those in charge of officiating are as well.
Ryebread, I feel your pain. I try to not let the refs get to me. That said, at times the disparity has seemed so great that a few years ago I did a little research on one of my favorite players, that bull in a china shop otherwise known as Tyler Hansbrough.
Long story short, the guy’s average fouls per game were 2.8, 2.4, 2.4 and 2.3 over his 4 year career. He fouled out exactly 3 times. 3. Once in year 1, once in year 2 and once in year 4.
Call it an outlier, but that defies explanation. Actually, it doesn’t.
Intereresting….at one point last night, in the second half, the foul stats were NCSU (7or 8) & WFU 2 or 3). THEN it was NCSU 10 & WFU 4. Never seen a game, that I can remember (this is my 9 Season of LTR’s in the Champion’s Club) that had that larger spread.
Perhaps a little history or reminder.
Feb 18, 2012 – NCSU v. FSU – Hess, Dorsey & Natili – Googs and Corch EJECTEDMar 8, 2012 – ACC Tourney Opener – WFU v MD Dorsey, Luckie, Eades & Clinton – KH (Karl Hess) tribute on shoes
Mar 8, 2012 – Second ACC Tourney game – NCSU v. BC – Dorsey, Hull & Jones, L – Refs were TOLD to remove KH Tribute tape.
Dec 6, 2014 – ACC Opener – NCSU v. WFU – Dorsey, Luckie & Covingington – 51 FOULS called. NOW, some were EOG JTV “Put ‘em on LINE” strategy…
From Statsheet…..GREAT LINK and the info this year has been expanded.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/north-carolina-state/refereesHaving trouble with tables or tabular data…..here is the syntax
Referee; NCSU total Game; Average Fouls/Game; Rank (Fouls/Game) for “selected” officials.
2011 – 2012 Season
Luckie; 4; 21.0; #1
Nestor; 6; 19.8; #2
Natili; 6; 18.2; #3
Dorsey; 6; 17.8; #5 (Tied with Jones,L)
Jones, L; 5; 17.8; #5
Hess; 5; 14.6; #11 (out of 12)2012 – 2013
Kissenger; 3; 21.7; #1
Clinton; 4; 19.3; #2
Jones, L; 8; 17.9; #3
Natili; 6; 17.3; #4
Luckie; 5; 17.2; #5
NO HESS or DORSEY….HMMMM?????2013 – 2014
Luckie; 7, 22.0; #1
Hull; 6; 20.6; #2
Dorsey; 5; 19.4; #4
Natili & Jones, L were toward bottom of 14 Refs.
STILL NO HESS….Double HMMMM?????I will leave FURTHER interpretation up to the reader…..suffice it to say…
YES, we DID look a bit ragged…as did WFU…
YES, we DID come alive in the second half….but there were “extenuating factors or influences”, seemingly, in the first half.
The score would have had, IMHO, a MUCH greater spread if there were “Different” officials with perhaps a “NO AGENDA” attitude on the court…
Gonna cheer for the Lady Pack today in Reynolds…..
We’re quite a different team w/out Anya on the floor. Seems to have some Richard Howell syndrome. I still don’t like the half court O. Looks like a lot of dribbling and standing around. Caleb should get more minutes/start.
We’re a work in progress, as just about everyone else is as well. It was a conference win. We do need Anya on the floor.
We’re definitely a work in progress.
On the other hand, several teams with ugly performances had bad losses yesterday, including 2 ranked teams. We managed not to lose ours, or even come close.
As far as the officials, it was an ugly game, and they called it ugly. Chicken/egg thing there, not gonna argue cause and effect, but I’d lean more toward inept vs corrupt.
Which is not to say they don’t have certain biases which can negatively affect their job performances.
ie, Anya better stop trying to swat everything in his sight in the first five minutes. Play smart big fella.ryebread — PLEASE find those statistics about Luckie. If you don’t find them, let’s talk about re-creating them. PLEASE!!!
It amazes me that the ACC constantly overlooks the likes of Jamie Luckie, Brian Dorsey and Karl Hess.
Good win for the Pack, though, and one of the ten needed to guarantee an NCAA berth in March.
We’re quite a different team w/out Anya on the floor. Seems to have some Richard Howell syndrome. I still don’t like the half court O. Looks like a lot of dribbling and standing around. Caleb should get more minutes/start.
Cat and Lacey are dribbling too long before getting the team into the offense. The camera even caught Gott screaming “Run the offense” last night. When they came out of the TO with a 6 or 8 point lead last night and ran the offense right after the inbounds, Turner came off of a double screen and hit Frenchie for a slam. That is the way the offense is supposed to look. The four guys without the ball have to be active.
Cat and Lacey create a lot off of the dribble. We should take advantage of that late in the shot clock. It should not be the primary way we run our offense.
The officiating was an abomination.
^ Agreed. There seems to be too much thinking and indecision in the backcourt, but it would help if the frontcourt would cut hard and stay in motion early in the clock.
StateFans – I think you’ll be interested in the long response I posted in Greywolf’s thread. My opinion, of course. 🙂
Ah…But keen observers will have noticed that Dorsey mended his ways, and on more than one occaission was there to bail the Pack out, in 2014.
I still fear Sean Hull…the lurker behind 3/4 of Luckie called games last season. He is poison.
Nice work, paki.
Also agree w/ Cowdog re: Hull. He’s not to ‘Larry Rose’ status for Pack games imo, but he makes some troubling calls.
Ok… enough about fouls called and whose refs are refs…
If there had been 10 less fouls called ( 5 not called on each team ) …
and some fouls that were called …. weren’t…
and some fouls that were NOT called … were whistled…NOTHING would have changed…
Wake would have still played better than expected… which is all on Danny…
The Pack would have still had a horrendous start to the game…
Anya would have still fouled out… albeit in 13 minutes instead of 11…
DEZ’s 4 minutes on the court would still have been ‘wasted’…
Lacy would have still waited 10 minutes before taking his first shot…Let’s Look at these four … up close … and ask some questions the radio guys… Gary and Tony won’t ask…
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1. Our Traditional “Slow Start”….Hey Basketball Wizards… your Team was either ‘not ready’ or ‘too hyped up’ to play this game…
Which is the case?…More important, since getting that exactly right is definitely an ‘Art’ and only happens 5-7 times a season…
Let’s cut to chase…What’s the first thing you look for when the game starts? If is not, is your Team too high or too low and is the other Team too high or too low… stop.
What is the primary purpose of the first Media Timeout?
What’s your “Go To” adjustment / substitution when your Team is too ‘low’?
What’s your “Go To” adjustment /substitution when your Team is too ‘high’?When that does not work…
What’s your Plan B at the eight minute Media Timeout?
Five guys Named Moe?Bottom Line is this waiting until halftime to get some answers / make some adjustments / ‘motivate’ your Team is BS and is worth 3-4 games a season… especially with rosters changing the way they do every season these days…
It doesn’t show much against so much against teams like WF but in the Dome and in Cameron, you’d would have gone down TWENTY at the half… if the same had been the case…
And it’s really ok to call timeout in the first ten minutes and get all redfaced, call them unflattering names of animals, and yell at them courtside… if that what it takes…
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2. Anya…11 minutes played… 5 blocks, 4 rebounds, and a bunch of important stuff for which there is no statistic, 2 points, 5 fouls…
Kids just GOTT to practice ‘pacing himself’ and controlling his ‘enthusiasm’…
Take this to Bank, Wizards, … this is something he has heard every day in practice since he lost those 60 pounds…The fact is, I’m sure he’s pretty tired of hearing about this… just needs to do it… and do it… and do it… and then do it… and do it… and do it… until he ain’t hearing or thinking about this again…
Obviously that didn’t work … so let’s try this…
If Coach told him I want you to make five fouls in twenty minutes… now practice looking at the clock and making a foul on purpose every 4 minutes, I bet he could do that…
So… let’s just get 20 strong minutes out of Anya for a couple of games, and then add five minute increments until he gets up to 35… by cutting out one stupid foul each time.
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3. Dez Lee…Whatever it is … it’s top secret… and nobody’s saying a word about it…
The Bottom Line is after 5 fouls, 1 TO and no points in 4 minutes…
Dez is done for the season… unless Coach decides to use him to trade fouls with an opponent to get their guys to the bench early… again…as in shades of Dan Wells…
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4. Lacy …Tevor Lacy is arguably the kid with the most potential to change the outcome of games on our Team.
Trevor played 34 minutes and Anthony played 36 minutes last night… the difference was Trevor waiting 10 minutes before taking a shot even though he was told to shoot… and Anthony took 10 free throws and Trevor took only TWO… (free throws are an direct indicator of offensive aggressiveness )…
The statement was made again by Gary and Tony… in the post-postgame…
“Trevor wants to play Point Guard but that Coach has been ‘encouraging’ Trevor to be more selfish in looking for and taking his shot…” ( Lacy said the same on the radio a couple games back… and added he wants to be an NBA assistant coach one day )So here’s where we are …
Trevor left Alabama because Coach would not let him play point guard.
Trevor comes to Raleigh and Coach still won’t let Trevor play point guard.Anthony is struggling to play point guard and will continue to struggle for the forseeable future.
By most all appearances, Trevor and Anthony play nicely together most all the time…
In other words…
Lacy and Anthony want to play together.
Anthony does not want to play point guard.
Lacy wants to play point guard .Why are some answers so simple?
Let’s just give Lacy the ‘title’ of point guard and let him bring the ball up the court more and give Anthony the ‘title’ of ‘scoring guard’ and put them both back out on the court and let them do exactly what they have been doing all season… except better…
Problem solved.
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We GOTT two games in the next twelve games …
somebody named Charleston Southern ?? and Wofford…
so we GOTT plenty of practice time to work all this into the system…As they I have said… this TEAM could win 25 games this season and play a lot of ball in March… IF….
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Cat should be a good foul shooter. His form isn’t terrible. Turner was awesome last night. Friggin purdont.
Bottom line – 1 down, 9 to go. We’all have the horses to compete if we don’t suffer any backcourt injuries. With guys that we have I think we can hang with anyone athletically.
I must have missed something. Lacey left Alabama because he wanted to be a two guard not a point guard.
ryebread — PLEASE find those statistics about Luckie. If you don’t find them, let’s talk about re-creating them. PLEASE!!!
I wrote one and ryebread did as well. When we get further in the year I can look at it again.
Here is the one I wrote
http://www.statefansnation.com/forums/topic/up-all-night-to-get-luckie/ ?
HEre is the one ryebread wroteA summary of my research:
To summarize, when Luckie refs NCSU gets called for an average of 5 more fouls per game, shoots 3 1/2 fewer FTs while the opponents get to shoot 11 1/2 more FTs a game.
Also Warren is almost guaranteed to foul out.statefans: Your wish is my command…….
CowDog: Do we need to do the exact same exercise for Dorsey and Hull to prove there is clearly officiating issues in the ACC? Does this have to be UNC scandal bad for us to admit what we have all seen for the past 20 years?
I really like you and typically find you reasonable, but as I reviewed last year’s threads on this, my blood started boiling about the whole situation again. What would it take to get you to admit something is there.
I posted something in last year’s thread that I will repeat here. I KNEW FOR A FACT that NBA games were being manipulated by the officials a couple of years before it came out. NBA officials are higher paid, higher regulated, the oversight is provided by the league, the players are higher paid, so a game is actually more difficult to manipulate at the pro level than a college game.
If NBA officials were getting manipulated, why is it so hard to think that college ones aren’t as well? The ACC provides oversight for ACC officials, and it is in the ACC’s best interest to make certain things happen. It is much less a zero sum game than the NBA if the league were to manipulate officiating.
If all the UNC shenanigans over the past couple of years have taught us one thing, it should be that Swoff’s in it up to his eyes, has been for years, and has UNC’s best interest constantly at heart. Do you not think that keeping it’s biggest in-state and historical rival down is not one of his agenda points?
This kind of blatant cheating is part of why I no longer watch as much college basketball, can hardly watch full games that don’t involve NC State, why I’m becoming more of a college football fan than basketball (which I never thought I’d say), and just generally don’t like the ACC as a league. I don’t see this changing until Swoff is gone and house is cleaned with ACC officials.
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