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I think we need more Wildcat formations. What do you guys think?
I cannot believe folks are saying it could be argued that Gott has underperformed in an effort to defend Dave Doer-matt? It’s just incomprehensible on so many levels.
Did anyone go to the game in Louisville? If so, I need a ticket stub for my collection. If anyone can help, please email me at [email protected]. Thanks to anyone who can and is willing to help.
I cannot believe folks are saying it could be argued that Gott has underperformed in an effort to defend Dave Doer-matt? It’s just incomprehensible on so many levels.
It was a push towards REALISTIC expectations. The incessant bashing that was being leveled at football wasn’t warranted IMO. I just stated facts that Gott had been dealt much more talent and had achieved less. Did he do better than Lowe? Of course, BUT, considering the talent we had come in no one can dispute that the outcomes for the past two years have been less than stellar considering what he had to work with. Face it, finishing at 500 in the league last year was NOT living up to the expectations of most. Having said that I was just trying to point out how UNREALISTIC I felt the expectations of some were becoming with this football team at this point in time. As to the question about how many freshmen or RS freshmen we played yesterday, it was ALOT! My tip of the hat to Moore, that kid was a monster on defense yesterday. I feel great about how good that kid is going to be.
Smarter than the average bear
Greywolf-what got us to the half yard line was Thorton. The last thing you want to do is roll out against defensive speed. You run at speed or over it. It was 1st and goal not 3rd and goal so I think he gets a jab at the end zone. So yes, I stand by what I stated before. Now that I cleared that up, What else can I do for you? Oh! Shall we talk about how our QB blew that play? I have a suggestion for you. Try to follow your own suggestion and take a breath.
Going off topic, at least the Panthers look good today.
As bad as they played, the Panthers still remain in first place in the South. Atlanta and Tampa are horrible, and New Orleans isn’t looking so good either.
Greywolf-what got us to the half yard line was Thorton.
Goal line defense is more difficult to run against. Even our goal line defense was difficult to run against.
The last thing you want to do is roll out against defensive speed. You run at speed or over it. It was 1st and goal not 3rd and goal so I think he gets a jab at the end zone. So yes, I stand by what I stated before. Now that I cleared that up, What else can I do for you? Oh! Shall we talk about how our QB blew that play?
I believe your adage about running at speed etc., loses its value on the goal line. That’s the problem with generalities. I also don’t think Brissett was rolling out to run although I have no way of knowing. Another way of attacking both strength and speed is to go over top of it which I believe we were trying to do.
If we had run Thornton on 1st down or 1st and 2nd down, I would have been OK with that. I actually like smash-mouth football when we have the studs to play that way. While studying film on Lville defense, Canada probably thought passing was our best shot which is why I was also OK with a short pass in the end zone. IMO A play isn’t necessarily wrong because it doesn’t work.
And since you offered, you could explain why Brissett didn’t throw it away when he didn’t have a receiver open. I would have to see the film to even make a guess as to what went wrong on that play. For Brissett to get sacked somebody or bodies likely missed a block.
Before the season, I expected us to be 5-3 (1-3) at this point. We’re 4-4 (0-4). Louisville was in ink as a loss, as was FSU and Clemson. The BC game was what hurt. I thought we’d go 7-5 (3-5) and now it’s looking more like 6-6 (2-6) at best.
I only saw about 1/2 of the Louisville game, but we played a lot better than I expected. I expected some late garbage scores by State and a 49-17 kind of thrashing. The defense played better (and actually finally attacked some). We did better against their defense than I expected. We were close, and I think it’s what hurt.
The bye week couldn’t have come at a better time. The team needs to get healthy, get focused and go play their best game at Syracuse. That’s a must win game.
rye, I understand the BC game being a tough loss. The bigger problem with that game was it came after two tough losses AND BC was not as weak as they were on paper at the start of the season. They played Clemson tough and beat USC. They have a very good defense and a strong running game.
foose, with everything going on in this thread I half expected much more than two one line replies. LOL.
Smarter than the average bear
A couple points here, some of which have been implied or stated already but that some people need to let sink in.
0 for ACC – We are 0-4 in conference right now – NO ONE expected any better than 1-3 at this stage. We have played arguably the 3 best teams in the entire conference and everyone knew we would be 0-3 in those. The arguments of 0 for ACC are one game against BC this year where they jumped up and surprised us. Yes I think we all wrote down a W for that one, but BC has proven tougher than anyone thought.
No one predicted a 10 win season – most realistic people would have said between 5-7 and 7-5. We are on track to hit that mark. Would it be nice to exceed expectations? Of course, but reality says sometimes meeting expectation is good and even means progress.
Program and Ethics – coach is in a losing streak and suspends 7 players. DD is more concerned with teaching a lesson than one specific game (which was an expected L anyway). Compare to GA where Gurley was benched immediately and FSU where denials are rampant for the same offense. Or to Brokeback Hill where denials and deflection rule the day. We used to talk of TOB being an old military style disciplinarian but DD has shown several players the door, experienced guys that he could use, and been forced to use young guys in the process. I have said it before, I would rather be 8-4 and clean than 12-0 and dirty (or dirty and struggling like in Orange County). My way or the highway with DD reminds me very much of Sheridan.
1st down on the 1 Maybe the coaches saw something on film – you know they do watch some film – that they thought they could exploit and catch them off guard. The mistake was not the play call. The mistake was the QB should have thrown it into the 2nd row. Incomplete pass and now we have 3 more shots at smash mouth football. Peyton Manning has 84 career passing TD’s of less than 3 yards, or about 1 in 6 of his TD’s are short. They stuffed the middle all game long – the effective runs we had were around the corners and draw plays but very little up the middle. As someone else said, if he completes the pass or even throws it away, we are not talking about it today. It is not like we inserted a trick play or something new – it came straight from the playbook probably based on coaching homework. Throw it away JB if not there is probably what DD and Canada said when the play was called.
NC State hasn’t won an ACC title since 1979 and has had only six winning league seasons since 1990 (that’s 24 years for the folks in Faison). Yeah, we have lots to compare him to. Lots of winners there. Chuck’s best season and he was 5 – 3 in the league. TOB never came close even with 2 NFL starting QBs. And we have maybe a couple of guys in the senior classes that may play on Sunday. Even at this point in time I’d take Doeren over both of them. Over Chuck cause nobody wanted to work or play for him, and TOB because he didn’t work hard enough (Recruiting IS one of your 3 main responsibilities). Say what you want but to me DD is an upgrade.
Hard to say DD is an upgrade at this point. He may be but he has to win some games before that statement can be made.
I cannot believe folks are saying it could be argued that Gott has underperformed in an effort to defend Dave Doer-matt? It’s just incomprehensible on so many levels.
I have never understood the need to run down one coach to prop up another.
Just stating the facts in terms of performance from my viewpoint. It was more of a position of saying “hey back off a bit” in terms of running down DD. Take from it whatever you want.
Smarter than the average bear
Yogi: With respect to BC, if a team got surprised by them, then it was USC. They thought they’d waltz in to Chestnut Hill, beat up a weak ACC team and fly home. They figured that game would be over by the end of the first quarter. BC punched them in the mouth and they folded.
For any team AFTER that to take BC lightly would be a mistake. At the same time, all anyone has to do was watch the USC game to know exactly what BC was going to do. They were all in that game. We saw the game plan.
Are they better than we thought preseason? Sure. Were we surprised? We shouldn’t have been at all.
With respect to BC/Clemson, that game was only as close as it was due to who Clemson had under center. Clemson is a much, much, much better team with Watkins (as UNC and NC State saw) than with their other QB (which is what happened against UGA and after Watkins got knocked out against Louisville). Expect Clemson to be in nail biters from now until Watkins returns, and if he doesn’t return for them to lose to S. Carolina by 2 TDs.
I still think we let that one get away. BC’s coach inherited a much worse program than this staff did (with respect to recent records and history). Both are in year 2. BC took it to us in our house the same weak the coach said openly that he was worried about their first true road test and immaturity on their team. That was just unacceptable.
Am I on the “fire DD” bandwagon because of that game? Nope. I’m just noting it was the one game this year that has really disappointed me. The rest is trending according to my expectations. We’re “behind” pace by one game against my 7-5 (3-5) prediction.
Are they better than we thought preseason? Sure. Were we surprised? We shouldn’t have been at all.
Absolutely, 100% agree. I guess the difference is, I don’t think the staff took BC lightly, I don’t think the players took BC lightly, and I don’t think either was surprised. I think they took their best shot, but weren’t able to do anything about it. BC’s strength (experienced, program-knowledgeable run-oriented offense) against State’s weakness (defense in general, run defense in particular).
My pre-season guess was 6-6, and yes, I had BC as a win. But based on what I’ve observed so far this year, BC is significantly better than advertised. They had the Clemson game in hand and let it get away – should have won it. So from my perspective, my failure to anticipate BC’s strengths means that it was MY mistake. I can’t be disappointed that the team fails to deliver on my entertainment schedule just because I underestimated an opponent 8 weeks ago.
BC’s coach inherited a much worse program than this staff did
Before I disagree with this, I’ll go back and review the recruiting analysis on this site and TOS. But I’m skeptical. As I’ve said, recruiting matters, but experience on the depth chart matters as well. I suspect that BC’s recruiting may have been slightly worse than ours, but I also suspect that they have a huge advantage in the number of experienced, participants on the depth chart than we do. When the recruiting numbers are close enough to be a wash, that’s a monstrous advantage.
Yogi says:
Over Chuck cause nobody wanted to work or play for him, and TOB because he didn’t work hard enough (Recruiting IS one of your 3 main responsibilities). Say what you want but to me DD is an upgrade.Hard to say DD is an upgrade at this point. He may be but he has to win some games before that statement can be made.
Rick, I’d be a little embarrassed to think that winning was the only measurement of upgrade. I think Yogi’s the statement was made based on the points he noted, not wins. Like a “Pre-season Poll” I’ll add my 2 cents and say that by all indications including wins, Doeren will be found to be an improvement over all who have coached football at NC State with the possible exception of Dick Sheridan and Earl Edwards. That “all” includes Lou “just here to use North Carolina State University as a stepping stone” Holtz.**
**Earl Edwards accomplished more with less than any coach ever at State. Sheridan didn’t have to recruit to and play in Riddick Stadium or play eweNC home games over on Brokeback Hill. All Earl did was win multiple ACC Championships and be ranked as high as #3 in the nation.
OK, after reading all the comments, I just want to make sure, so we are not firing coach Gottfried this year? Just making sure because in the middle of his second year we were. He had no ability with his #6 in nation team. Then last year, he wasn’t getting it done. Oh but he slipped into the tourney. So now, with almost all his recruits and things being well established but still young, I’m just curious if he is getting a pass. Many comments above have him as a solid hero now. I’m just wondering where he will be in February.
As to Dorren, Recruiting is everything and freshmen don’t turn things around as fast as the do in Basketball. Just on recruiting alone, I would give Dorren a pass. And that would continnue unless his recruiting levels fell back to the level of TOB’s last 3 years. Because it’s true, DD can not win games with that level of recruiting.
I’m not sure who could. Sheridan had a future pro QB to help with his first year in Eric Kramer. And guys Sheridan was solid but he was not all that. His offense was very predictable. He was solid in the ACC because the ACC was barely the 5th best conference (at best). FSU came in and let us know the level of play NCSU and the ACC were at. We took 2nd in the conference those first two years, and FSU beat the crap out of us.Back to this team, how about that freshmen LB (Moore). So I am seeing two very good Fresh LBs on the team. I think the future abodes well. Our young receivers are awesome. The DBs are young and are getting better. Running backs, are strong and will be a better platoon next year. Things are looking up.
What was that about BC having a worse situation coming in. Only because future NFL QBs disguised the Wolfpacks sorry level of recruiting.
What was that again, NCSU has 25 freshmen on the 2 deep, BC has 16.
Do you understand how much depth that means we will have the next 3 years.I repeat, recruiting is everything. Yes, sometimes we could upset FSU, but we never were as solid as them through the season because we never had their level of players. DD is the best recruiter State has had since I have been following the Pack. Period.
Ever wonder why he wasn’t starting at Florida and felt the need to transfer?
I think that’s become pretty obvious. Muschamp couldn’t coach and offense out of a wet paper bag. Among his talents appears to be either 1) picking the worst QB from a selection of three, or 2) Coaching the best QB of 3 down to be the worst.
foose, with everything going on in this thread I half expected much more than two one line replies. LOL.
Not much to say that isn’t obvious or repeating what I or others have already contributed.
I will say that BC is better than I expected coming into the season. With hindsight, given the situations, it was expecting too much to expect our OL to be able to match up well with their D front for the entire game.
CD’s scheduling comment probably nailed the root cause of all the angst. Same opponents in a different sequence and the Wolfpack is probably looking pretty good.
Times are tough. An opportunity to flail or check out, or an opportunity to galvanize. We’ll see.
Hard to say DD is an upgrade at this point. He may be but he has to win some games before that statement can be made.
I THINK he’ll prove to be the best coach we’ve had since Sheridan*, maybe even better (assuming he sticks around), but Rick’s is a true statement. It’s all speculation and projection at this point. You are what your records says you are.
*As relative to their peers. Comparing anything from different eras is always tough. The game is different, the players are different, what society is willing to accept is different.
Greywolf-If we had run Thornton on 1st down or 1st and 2nd down, I would have been OK with that. I actually like smash-mouth football when we have the studs to play that way. While studying film on Lville defense, Canada probably thought passing was our best shot which is why I was also OK with a short pass in the end zone. IMO A play isn’t necessarily wrong because it doesn’t work.
It is one thing to watch film during the week and it is another to see what has been working in the game. JB was pressured all day when he would run out to his right to either pass or run for his life once the pocket broke down. I do have a problem with him not taking a few steps back more once the snap comes to him in the shotgun. Does the QB or should I say does Canada believe in check downs. Put the ball in the hands of a back and let them do the damage. It seems to me that our routes by the WR our to long. The only thing I see working is JB throwing to the TE for the most part. Bo Heinz is a great WR and reminds me of a small version of Jerricho Cotchery. Sure handed….
Well foose, we finally thru the ball out of the wildcat but I was hoping for the back to be the one that thru it. Well I am glad we got that out of the way.LOL!
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