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Five possible reasons for our slow start on defense: First time starters for the PC game on defense were Drew Davis and Pharaoh McKever at DE, Monty Nelson at DT, and Tim Buckley at nickel. Did these guys “beat out” Mike Rose, Art Norman, TY McGill or Dra Wright for starting positions? I kinda doubt it.
It seems like I spend 80% of my waking hours thinking about, talking about, writing about or wondering about Wolfpack football. The rest of the time I just waste.
“They’re not better than us,” Donnie Miles, a UNC freshman linebacker, was screaming as he walked off the field. For the second consecutive year, though, the scoreboard told a different story, though the final score described only a small portion of ECU’s record-setting victory.
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/09/20/4168195/ecu-dominates-unc-in-record-setting.html?sp=/99/103/119/271/#storylink=cpy
HAHAHA!
If we go 3-5 in conference, unless our opponents have had something catastrophic happen, I think the season can be deemed a success. 2-6 – it would depend on how those games flushed out/our injury situation. I would be shocked if we went 0-8.
I don’t know what happened with penalties last night but so far the team/staff has done an excellent job in the “unforced errors” department. If we continue to be good with to’s and penalties the program will be solid.
CP1, Some of the holding calls late in the third quarter were phantom calls. Two playes before Dayes went to the house were very suspect. One ref called it from the back sideline when the play was twenty yards away. Bad call. His hands were on the inside and the guy went down because his footing slipped. Nice to see that it didn’t change the aggressiveness and we could still feel confident in running the ball right off right tackle.
Gowolves – I actually heard that exchange on the radio. My only concern is that this is the beginning of some “tendencies” holding call that the conference loves so much. (Mind you I am not saying we are holding just preparing myself for some important large gains being called back from penalties.)
CP1, I am worried too. Those jet sweeps are prime for some holding calls whether they are holding or not. Our receivers have to make sure they keep the hands inside to make sure there is no doubt.
CP1, I am worried too. Those jet sweeps are prime for some holding calls whether they are holding or not.
Not to worry. The WR and TE/FB coaches will be all over that when they view the game film today (Sunday). Unless you like some think they are in over their heads and can’t coach high school. 😉
Your analysis overlooks what is critical to evaluating the first 4 game performance. In all 4 games the coaches were using those games as “pre-season” learning experiences. Each game revealed what needed to be worked on or developed. Did you notice last night that we threw the deep ball, something we hadn’t done well if at all before?It has been duly noted by many that the best athletes on the team are from the 2 most recent recruiting classes. Our coaches wisely have been bringing along slowly but surely the freshmen additions to this team. IMNSHO it would have been disastrous to have thrown them in the first games.
I didn’t say any negative about the offense other then they have a tendency this season to wait until halftime before waking up. As for the best athletes and such coming on slowly that still doesn’t change the fact that the current defensive players are showing some really bad tendencies while playing bad. I don’t disagree that the freshmen don’t need to sink or swim when you have this weak OOC schedule but (and I’m not looking at who’s getting the PT on defense) I’d hope with such bad competition they have been getting them quality PT.
As far as being prepared to play is concerned, this team is not the same team that we saw in the GSU and ODU games. The “average or below average” ODU team is, IIRc is 3-1. Only by shooting themselves in the foot (kinda like Clemson last night) did GSU lose to GT who in turn beat VT in their house. USF in most certainly does not have an incredibly bad offense or defense either for that matter. They may have some problems just as many other teams but they are most definitely not “bad”.
Just as I’d point out who has State played and beaten, I’m going to do the same for ODU and GSU. I really hope people aren’t thinking that ODU/GSU are in the top half of the teams in the country. …I’m sorry but USF is most certainly BAD. They are horrible, the only teams worse than them State will play all season is PCU & maybe WFU. I’m not going to drag out all their stats but anyone who looks at them and then reads up on their play during games can easily see that.
You say our DL was pushed back 3 and 4 yards by a very small PC OL but only averaged 2.7 yards per rush. Were they tripping and falling over their own feet? FYI a smaller, quicker, well coached OL can do things to open running lanes that larger slower OL cannot do. Ever wonder why our Ali Kassam at 34o lbs. is not playing?
I did not say or imply it happened every time but they were getting pushed around enough to notice they were getting out muscled by guys weighing 50-100 lbs less than them. There’s a difference between speed and speed with strength and if players at PCU are that much faster than the State DL then it’s worse than I thought.
Early season comparative analysis is a dangerous game. For some reason you and a few others seem to think the objective of a football team in the early season should be to do its best to impress the fans and critics. Not happening at NCSU. Check out Coach Doeren’s coaching resume. His 2 years spent as a graduate assistant at USC wasn’t just something to do. The foundation of his coaching philosophy was built there. USC by and large is not a bad place to learn how to be a head football coach.
I think after 25% of the season has been played it’s safe to make quality analysis of tendencies that are being repeated over and over again. I never said they have to impress me, the object of the cupcakes is to bring them along, find the mistakes and fix them if possible. I’m just pointing out the problems that are being repeated game after game against average at best competition. These problems will become bigger when the competition increases. You’re also implying that I’m bashing the coaches which I haven’t done once, I’m simply pointing out the things that most people either want to ignore or simply gloss over while treating the results against HORRIBLE teams as actual improvement. It’s simply a difference in how we look at these cupcakes, I’m assuming you see these games as tangible results while assuming the competition is still pretty good; I see these games as worthless beyond seeing the mistakes that are made over and over again and will be worse when State plays someone with a pulse.
Here’s the good news, one of us will be proven correct in the next few weeks when State is done feasting on dessert and gets to the main course. I predict the offense will continue to score points but only in the 20-29 point range and will struggle against better defenses. I also predict our Defense will be exposed everywhere on the field as weak up front and slow in the back.
Purple PAIN…..Purple PAIN…..Oh, how I love the Smurf’s getting their just Purple PAIN…
BUT, I remember a Saturday last fall where WE got the Purple Pain (NO, I will not go there…). I was so mad that I almost burned the new Purple bath towel set that my wife had just ordered when it came in on Monday. I DID confiscate it and she did not get them un Christmas….but they were the wrappings on a WolfPack Pandora bracelet that I had made up….so she forgave me.
Listening to the post game on the way home….there was a basketful of “records” shattered….so far this season. And GH/JE/TH were still pulling them out.
Meanwhile in Green town, the there was a even larger basket of records being broken. At last count, the talking/writing wags were up to 30+. Half of them were “BEST” and the lads in Purple possessed all of the. The OTHER half were WORST since (FTB) and the Blue Smurfs were still wailing.
SO, even though we have not played a “power”, I will take the 4-0 record.
Curiosity….Check out the article or headline here.
http://abc11.com/sports/east-carolina-moves-into-ap-top-25/318043/
This is on ABC11 or WTVD (D as in DURHAM). Did it EVER occur to the web whiz that there was ANOTHER story there? ECU is #23. Guess WHO entered the Top 25 at #22? Give that lad a cigar (bubblegum of course). Dave’s Dark Blue Clad Warriors….the DUKE (aren’t THEY in DURHAM??) Blue Devils. YEP, the local TV station posts an AP article and completely MISSES the local team’s entry into the elite. DOES that tell you about the quality and knowledge of the web folks?
SO, who KNOWS where we will finish? Personally, we are sitting better than UNX. UNX, bless their little hearts, has to play DaBO and the Orange Clad Tigers NEXT WEEK.
We don’t draw a much better LOT….but I would rather play FSU AFTER a close win that Clemson after a LOSS. JimBO (This should have been billed as the BO Bowl….sponsored by Bo Jangles….and there would have been a Promo today where if you wore Burgundy or Orange, you got a free JW Special….Crab Legs Biscuit and Iced Tea…
BUT, JimBO did, IMO, outcoach DaBO….I don’t know if convincing (jinxing) the Clemson running back that coughed up the ball and preventing a last minute score was all JimBO’s doing….much less the “force” of the tackling. He just DROPPED IT. JimBO DID have the plan….get on D and hold them and figure out HOW to score.
Looking forward to Saturday…..the Noles will be tough….and we may look like the team that many are berating (or perhaps NOT promoting) here….but I think that Coach D will make sure that we play well and not quit…
GO PACK….be at CF on Saturday….my 11 YO GS has exercised his right to my DW’s ticket and will be decked out in the BEAT FSU T that I bought him two years ago. MIRACLES do happen.
I’m assuming you see these games as tangible results while assuming the competition is still pretty good; I see these games as worthless beyond seeing the mistakes that are made over and over again and will be worse when State plays someone with a pulse.
You quoted me as saying “In all 4 games the coaches were using those games as “pre-season” learning experiences.” How could you then assume I see these games as tangible results? “Results” of what you don’t say but I guess you mean I think State is a good team because we beat what is spoken of as ”
You quote me
a smaller, quicker, well coached OL can do things to open running lanes that larger slower OL cannot do.
and then you say “I did not say or imply it happened every time but they were getting pushed around enough to notice they were getting out muscled by guys weighing 50-100 lbs less than them. There’s a difference between speed and speed with strength and if players at PCU are that much faster than the State DL then it’s worse than I thought.”
Jiggy, your arguments to contradict what I say have little or no relationship to what I said. I don’t think I’m inclined to explain trap blocking, leverage, pulling, etc., but even Presbyterian coaches are smart enough to not try to out muscle the larger state DL. There are many things these coaches can do to take what advantage they can with smaller, quicker linemen. There was a coach at Alabama named Bryant whose OL and DL were often quite a bit smaller than the opposing lines. He seemed to do alright with those guys.
My last comment on big vs. small players is this:
1. If you have big, fast players it doesn’t matter what offense of defense you run or use.
2. If you have big, slow players, you run power offense and even technique defenses.
3. If you have small, quick players, you run finesse type offenses and odd technique defenses.
(Example: Wake forest under Jim Grobe.)
4. If you have small, slow players, see number 1.I contend that the building blocks of our just installed 4-2 5 defense were being installed vs GSU, ODU and USF. Same for our Wildwolf and jet sweep. Only Creecy had Wildwolf/Wildcat plays called for him. Dayes and Thorton were not ready during the GSU game. I don’t believe our shifting that so confused USF was installed for either GSU or ODU. They may have been vs. ODU, I’m just not sure. The coaches implied we would be tweaking the base D during the week before the PC game. Given the relative strengths of the State and PS there was little need to spend time on a game plan for PC nor was there a real need to “pump” them up for that game. And it showed. What didn’t show was what will be used vs. FSU.
I am NOT arguing that GSU, ODU or USF are in the same class as most of the Power 5 conference teams however GSU and ODU DID came to play — prepared to throw everything the could at us. Coach Doeren came to those games preparing for our conference games. Yes, we wanted to win and we did but not at all costs.
As far as “I think after 25% of the season has been played it’s safe to make quality analysis of tendencies that are being repeated over and over again.” I don’t think it’s safe to make quality analyses at this point given what I know about what we were doing, but I hope Jimbo Fisher agrees with you. ‘Cause if he does, I think we got a surprise for his ass.
Thank you for your comments. I hope we can respectfully disagree on this and perhaps other points as the season goes forward. (I’ve always wanted to say “goes forward” in a sentence.) I do agree that “one of us will be proven correct in the next few weeks” although I don’t think we were merely “feasting on dessert.”
I can’t see your logic in predicting “the offense will continue to score points but only in the 20-29 point range…” And while our offense may find scoring more difficult I don’t think “struggle against better defenses” is an accurate assessment. We shall see, won’t we. Please counter comment as you see fit. I actually enjoy these kind of discussions. I do get more out of them when the other side is a little more specific than “mistakes that are made over and over again” and “repeating tendencies over and over again.” Got any examples of these “mistakes and tendencies” to share.
BTW Do you plan on using how we play against the number 1 ranked team in the nation as evidence you are right? If we play well, I’ll admit I do. 😉 And I know you hope I’m right.
I did not say or imply it happened every time but they were getting pushed around enough to notice they were getting out muscled by guys weighing 50-100 lbs less than them.
Jiggy, You may have your numbers backwards. PC’s starting OL actually outweighed our starting DL. Perhaps some of your other “facts” may be wrong as well. 50-100 lbs, really. That would make the 2 tackles weigh from 210 to 160. LOL
I see these games as worthless beyond seeing the mistakes that are made over and over again and will be worse when State plays someone with a pulse.
That’s where you err.
BUT, JimBO did, IMO, outcoach DaBO
Even if you’re correct, that’s not saying much. True, FSU won the game, but they did not win it. Clemson lost it.
foose, DOG, help me out here if I’ve screwed this up.
The injury jinx hit the middle LB position pretty hard. Not all injured Lbs were MLBs but the projected starter was. Another, Ty Linden was counted on to play. Coult Culler may not have been counted on to play before the injuries to MJ and Ty. Robinson is admittedly a walk on but that does cause a shortage on the scout squad.
Defensive scheme changed from 4-3 to 4-2-5
Responsibilities for LB and Safeties change. After ‘vanilla’ is put in, “flavors” get added in to make life difficult for opps offense.This leaves *FR Jared Fernandez at middle LB backed up by true freshman, Airious Moore. Rodman Noel has come on strong at the other LB but both backers and their back-ups have new assignments in the new scheme. There are 2 freshmen in the back at nickel back and one safety.
Wait there’s more.
DL changed from even to odd technique
More practice and drills in both technique and responsibilities
Then live fire in gamesJet sweep read option not a possibility with 2013 Qbs
Wildcat put in to save wear and tear on Jacoby Brissette running the ball.
Offense limited to short passing game independently worked on over summer months
Passing game coordinated with OL protectionl
RB’s trained in read option jet sweep out of Wildcat
We haven’t seen a pass off the Wildcat look. Yet.You don’t just ‘tell’ the RB’s to do the read option, it must be practiced with repetition
All RB’s must be able to run the Wildcat read option least the defense know it’s coming
WR’s and Jalen Samuels at FB must be factored in and practied
Not used in games if it’s put in is passing from Wildcat.I think we ought to be standing and cheering for the job they’ve done just to play in the new systems, not just the result.
Mean while some fans are judging and evaluating the offense and defense as if it was all in from Day 1. The 2014 Pack is doomed to repeated failures based on what the fans saw at games 1 and 2 and 4. Value of playing GSU and ODU because they are judged to be weak. Our Game 3 opponent, USF, is considered irrelevant due to 2013 W/L record. Never mind their freshman RB gained 275 yard in his 1st college game. USF has a new as we do and are slow to get it together. Ask UConn how USF is doing.
So I get a little annoyed at some of us for disrespecting the job the players and coaches have done to get ready for the conference schedule and for some fans forgetting why we play the game at all.
I’ll break it down nice and simple.
When the ‘Pack does well, it’s because their opponents suck. When the ‘Pack doesn’t do well, it’s because they suck.
Grey,
I’d enjoy a long debate with you over this but I just don’t have the time and when I do it’ll be old news at that point. So this is all I’ll be able to contribute on this game.
I looked back at the DL/OL sizes and you’re right. I must have been smoking some bad crack but I got them backwards in my head. State’s OL was 50-100 lbs bigger than PCU DL. State’s DL was the same size as PCU’s OL. So strike what I said about that and I’ll concede that point.
As for the tendencies and errors I was referring to the points I made in the first comment, didn’t see the need to repeat them in the rebuttal. The memory of the PCU game is already fading so I’m not going to try and make any new points outside of what I’ve already said otherwise I’m likely to get games mixed up. The only additions I’d add is this season I continue to see a carryover from the previous era of poor tackling, what appears to be out of position by our secondary (could be talent or could be play calling), and slowness at most defensive positions (either physical ability or lack of understanding their job which will slow down a player).
Like I said before I’m not going back and breaking down game film in order to see everything, just pointing out what I’ve noticed and what really stands out to me as inherent problems against a weak OOC schedule. Since football games are not in my top 10 of things important to me on a daily basis (not implying it of you) my memory retention of individual players and full breakdown of games isn’t going to be there. I’m just a fan who only has enough time to focus on it in short burst, which is why I admit that I make mistakes at recall and some analysis at times.
I’ve got no problem with disagreement and difference in philosophy. Remember a crowd of people can watch a car accident and come away with different accounts of the same thing. I agree that GSU/ODU played as if it was their National Championship and they aren’t complete pushovers. With State’s talent levels they were hard fought games, much harder than they should be but that simply reflects the state of the program where we are today. PCU is awful even for FCS standards (yet somehow they upset #12 Furman, that’s a WTF game right there) and USF is really bad. I noticed your other comment about basing USF on last year’s record and their freshman running back running for 275 yards, what you failed to mention is he did it against a bad WCU team. USF was really bad last year and they are still really bad this year.
As for basing State’s play solely on their play against FSU (and Clemson) I believe the gap in talent level is so great between State and them that IF State does play really well against them then major props will need to be given to both the Coaches (for their game plan and preparing the players) and the Players for playing above their level. Just as I believe in the philosophy you can’t take many positives away from playing bad competition, I don’t think you can take too many negatives from playing a team vastly more talented than you. I think a good, full, real analysis of this team will be made when playing against competition that’s on or near the same level as State and this year that pretty much equates to the second half of the season (BC, Louisville, Syracuse, GT, WF, & UNC).
Outside of the offense taking until halftime to get it in gear, I don’t really see anything so far that is troubling on the offensive side of the ball. It’s amazing what a quality QB can do for an offense. I will be interested to see how the OL does in the second half of the season with their rush blocking, that was an area that has been hurting bad for longer than I can remember. It’s the defense that still looks like they haven’t fixed their problems and has been exploited so far by GSU/ODU (one by scheme and the other by a quality QB) and masked by ultra-inferior competition in USF/PCU.
I’m sure we’ll have many more philosophical and game analysis disagreements as the season moves on but being civil and presenting different points of view is what makes SFN a quality site.
That’s where you err.
Just because someone disagrees with you and has a different philosophy doesn’t make you right and they wrong.
Jiggy,
Thanks for the cool reply. I agree. It’s time to call an end to the Presbyterian game analysis. I only hope we have a seriously delightful time analyzing a win over FSU. 😉Finally going away, here’s something that might help explain the slow start we seem to have on offense. I don’t know if we do this or not but many if not all the pro teams do it and that is they run a dozen or so plays from a script written before hand. I think they are doing this to see what the defense is doing under different circumstances. If the script goes well, then it is transparent. If not then you wonder WTF they are doing.
Jigs,
That is correct, but you made a statement that is obviously false.
Perhaps it was hyperbole, but whether you agree or disagree with the general point, surely you realize the first four games have more value than you attributed in the quoted statement.
To say you err is a pretty benign statement.
first four games have more value
I need to back track the conversation and catch-up, but I see little predictive value in the first four games. In fact, there may be little value in the FSU game as far as projecting how State will do the rest of the year.
From 1.21JW
the object of the cupcakes is to bring them along, find the mistakes and fix them if possible.
…And to supply four of six wins needed for a bowl game. (Which DY already mentioned.)
I also predict our Defense will be exposed everywhere on the field as weak up front and slow in the back.
Defense is clearly a huge concern heading into the conference schedule. Being weak up front will expose even a good secondary.
VaWolf, thanks for bringing it back around! Completely agree that we’ll be 5 games into the year and many of us who are less enlightened may not have a good handle on who this team will be in the second half of the season. I just hope that we still don’t know after we leave Death Valley.
Then again, with the somewhat mercurial nature of our program, that’s been one of the few things we could actually count on. 😉
I have been accused by my friends of always viewing Wolfpack football and basketball with unreasonable and unrealistic optimism. With that said, and knowing home field advantage should be worth 3-7 points for us, I am picking FSU to win by 40 to 50 points.
On offense FSU has All American / NFL 1st round guys at QB, RB, TE, WR, and OL. Our defense to them will seem like Presbyterian to us.
On the other side, while encouraged by our offense, we have not played a defense like this yet. Not even close. We may score a couple TDs, but that won’t offset the 8 or 9 they are going to score.
And I did pick us to be 4-0 at the start of the season, and I do think we will win 7-8 games, just not this one. I will be getting there a little earlier than usual to make sure I am completely and utterly liquified by kick-off.
I think DD has made progress. If our offense ends up being average over the course of the season that will be proof.
As for the defense, I have advised everyone I know to bet the over on FSU total yards as long as they set the number at 700 or lower. We still need a huge talent and experience infusion on that side of the ball. He really needs to show some significant progress there by the end of next season.
Just another race, stepping up in class.
If State doesn’t get fractuous in the gate, and can be rated by the 1/4 mile pole…who knows?
Favorites can be beaten, or at least be given a challenging run.
Brisset is the key. If he’s washy, bad news. Otherwise, what I’ve seen thus far, is a chance to stay within a length.
Hell,ya never know.The favorite’s jockey may have a bad race,too.
Like I said a couple weeks ago, these 2yr olds have been training for this .
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