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Just in the ACC:
Manning left Tulsa
Buzz left Marquette
Christian left Ohio
Gregory left Dayton
Brownell left Wright State
Larranaga left George MasonYou’re welcome.
Marshall is waiting. In the last 5 years, that has been the trend if you are a top tier mid major, your coach stays until he gets the one he wants.
Marshall wanted to be here the last time around. Not so sure that is the case anymore.
BJD: Bummer.
Pack1997: Since Dayton joined the A10 in 1995, they’ve been to the tournament 6 total times. Two of those were in the last two years by Arch. He’s well on his way to a 3rd straight berth.
Prior to Arch’s NCAA tournament birth in 2014, they’d been on a 5 year drought (2009) and their last trip prior was was 5 years prior. The last time they went back to back was 2003 and 2004. The last time they made 3 straight trips was 1965-1967.
Arch took Dayton to the Elite 8. The last time they went to the Elite 8 was 1984.
His win totals have gone from 20, 17, 26 and 27. He may hit 27+ again this year. That looks like it is trending up.
He’s got his team in the top 25. He’s got wins this year over Alabama (by 32), W&M (that same team we lost to), Iowa, Monmouth (who has been a giant killer), Vandy and Arkansas.
He’s doing all of this with 3 star level talent. Given this is his 5th season, these are all his players, so he’s recruited, retained players and developed them.
That sure looks like a guy that can coach ’em up to me. I’d like to see what he could do with NC State’s resources and instant ability to recruit.
Thanks, Rye.
Somebody is going to get one heck of a basketball coach in Archie Miller, I am sure of it. He’s got 30 good years to offer. We will lament not getting him when we could have.
Pack1997: Just read your comment about Brian Gregory and I don’t agree with them. Gregory inherited a good Dayton program from Purnell. He took Purnell’s players and went back to the tournament in year one. After that, in seven more years, he went exactly one time. If Arch were inheriting a great program, wouldn’t they have been coming off of some tournament bids?
One good way to measure a mid-major coach is to look at their wins in conference. This reflects how they do against peer programs that typically have similar resources. Arch’s in conference wins have gone 9, 7, 10, 13. Gregory’s went 12, 10, 6 in his first three seasons.
Gregory’s tenure had a general downward trajectory including a losing record in conference the year he was hired by GT. I always thought GT made a really poor hire there.
Gregory was arguably the worst coach at Dayton in my lifetime. As it will stand at the end of this year, Arch will likely have done the second most of any coach at Dayton in my lifetime.
I find the burned bridge theory dubious. I’d like to hear specifics. Logically if it’s a Herb thing, he wouldn’t have been wanting to come last search. If it’s an ego thing, well getting rid of DY would take care of that. Everyone has a price. Especially an alum.
And Dayton’s conference is MUCH tougher than what it was when Gregory was there. And, Dayton is now a nationally ranked program three years running.
I have not heard the why. The rumblings have not been detailed on the reasons, just consistent on the pessimism. Given where they are coming from, I tend to believe they are likely well-founded.
Who knows, maybe he thinks he’s in line for one of the really big ones now?
Also dunno on any specific “power play” rumblings, but don’t see why moving up DY’s scheduled retirement would be that difficult if circumstances warrant. But really have no clue what dominoes are lining up behind the scenes. Just saying the agents of change have to START there, not at the Doeren/Gottfried level.
Thanks, Rye.
Somebody is going to get one heck of a basketball coach in Archie Miller, I am sure of it. He’s got 30 good years to offer. We will lament not getting him when we could have.
Again, it’s assuming facts not in evidence. Last year, I would have agreed with you.
’m just worried we won’t even make the NIT at this point.
Not trying to make a joke, just the statement that the NIT has become harder to make. Last year they only took Pitt (19-14) and Miami (21-12). Those were two bubble teams. The 2014 NIT took only FSU (19-13) and Clemson (20-12). We are not bubble material this year (at least not to this point in the season).
Last year they [NIT] only took Pitt (19-14) and Miami (21-12). Those were two bubble teams. The 2014 NIT took only FSU (19-13) and Clemson (20-12).
Worth repeating for those who after all of this time still contend that 20 wins guarantees you a bid to the NCAAT.
But really have no clue what dominoes are lining up behind the scenes. Just saying the agents of change have to START there, not at the Doeren/Gottfried level.
I agree with this as well. I have zero insider information as to what the people that make those type of moves believe.
My guess (completely speculation on my part) as to the WHY of Archie not likely to land here, assuming it’s a legitimate rumor we won’t ever land him, is because he knows he can get a lot more money from a school with a much more affluent athletics program than us.
I think our AD is here as long as she wants to be, and I don’t think the success of the football and/or basketball coach will have much effect on DY’s tenure. The PTB and AD have too much power (and $$$), so why would they want to give that up? State fans have shown a long history of accepting whatever they get. Attendance figures prove this, and except for a few downturns, the numbers trend upward.
Wolfpack football and men’s basketball HCs who haven’t produced for 3 or 4 years are ROUTINELY given two more years, or three more years, or ever how many more years it’ll take for them to learn to be a good coach. You can’t re-invent the wheel; if they’re really GOOD, it’ll be obvious from the start. Holtz, Rein and Sheridan demonstrated that in football, and ditto for Valvano in his early seasons. Coach K didn’t have great seasons in his first 3 years at Duke, but those teams, which were superior fundamentally to anything we’ve put on the court in a long, long time, were building blocks. At State, we’re perceived to have more blockheads than we have building blocks. When was the last time we saw a recruiting class brought in for the sole purpose of building a program? It hasn’t worked too well with transfers, that’s for sure.
Right now, our football and basketball programs are in a long drought when it comes to good fundamental recruits, and neither has fielded a decent DEFENSE in some time. The State way has become to just throw the best athletes you can get on the court or field and hope they can outjump, outrun or out-whatever everybody else. As much as talent matters, football and basketball are still TEAM sports.
We’ve got football teams that don’t seem to know how to play defense, and we’ve got basketball teams that can’t shoot free throws, let along a 15-foot jump shot. Just going .500 in the league now seems to be a stretch for b-ball, and football seems to be mired near the bottom of the league. Everybody remembers 1974 and 1983, but few seem to remember the significance of 1979 and 1987.
Until NCSU gets an administration that is willing to admit that what they’ve been doing for the past 25 years isn’t working and will never work, and makes MAJOR changes, we will continue to dwell near the ACC cellar. No other ACC school gets less bang for its athletic buck than the Wolfpack.
As an LTR ticket holder for over 20 seasons in both football and basketball, I’m in for one more season. But after that, without something really changing, I’m done. I can take that money and buy a big-screen tv and sit home and cheer for State, Wake Forest, Duke and for whoever’s playing UNC, plus I can root hard against Notre Dame, Syracuse, Miami, Pitt, Louisville and BC, those wonderful Big East schools that have made the ACC even more wonderful.
Torin Dorn should be that guy next year.
You are right that identifying “glue guys” like AJ would help us immeasurably.
Cody Martin and to a lesser extent Caleb are glue guys IF they are on a good team. They are being asked to be go guys this year. That’s not who they are.
Just watched the game (replay). I know some people have a problem with the black uniforms. I actually liked them. Thought black was completely appropriate. Now, if only the band could learn a dirge.
Seriously, though, the offense in that game was lacking to say the least. The crazy thing is that they were a reversed call away from having a chance to tie in the last seconds. They had chances all game to tie and/or pull ahead despite a crummy (in some areas) performance. They show that there are tools in the tool belt (not tons to be sure). There were wide open guys many times. A few extra passes (not to mention a few made free throws – ugh) and they win that game. I don’t think this team is going to achieve greatness, but there is a chance to achieve respectability without Cat having to drive on 5 guys and make acrobatic shots all game. I think they’ll get there as they seem to do so each season. The question is: will it be enough?
We can say a lot more of things about gott but he knows how to field teams with talent and he knows how to keep his teams in the game. The fact that we had a chance to tie Thursday night’s game after being down 14 (maybe even 16) with less than 5 minutes left speaks to that point.
We have seen this before with his teams, but his last 4 had more talent and depth to draw upon.
Is the beginning of the end of the gott era or is it a tic down in an otherwise upward trajectory or is it another season where we squeak into the NCAA as a 10 – 13 seed.
As a wolfpack alum I suspect that at the end like bill Murray says “we will receive total consciousness” – with yow conducting her coaching search like Glenn close in fatal attraction.
Chop,
Well said…..at least you are NOT on the ledge….one less to worry about. The Jim Jones cocktails are taking their toll on a lot…and you obviously poured yours out or on a flower (it DIED). I am in your camp and hope that the team will gel….as I watched the game and the score and the time, I, too, marveled at how we came back from an ugly defeat to just a “whine a little bit” loss.
In the past, we would have folded…especially the CJ lead teams.
I also want to congratulate you on perhaps the perfect (and funny is spooky way) metaphor should Gott not be successful. Glen Close is not aging well and, without make-up, she could easily play AD Yow in the ESPN feature…”NCSU; we are not going that LOWE again”. Great writing.
Thanks ‘roo – that’s what supposed to separate this board right? Red-faced responses a couple of days after the game are not a sign of being well-adjusted…on game-day, it just means you are a sports fan.
I know this, our guys suit up tomorrow and gott and his crew will do their best to make it a “dub.”
And let’s face it, in 3 of his 4 years we’ve been through this before. As BJD noted – it doesnt look like a great job at all if we run out on a coach after one bad season after exceeding everyone’s expectation the first time. Its gott ball, and it we have seen a lot worse!
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