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Bjd – my concern is that when we make the next coaching search we’ll have like 4 kids on the roster at this pace.
On of Gott’s takeaways from his experience at bama was that he gave too many kids scholies…whom he didn’t feel could help. Truthfully, the problem that I am seeing is that gott struggles in teaching and identifying HIDDEN talent.
He has struggled finding the cj Williams, ilian evtimov’s of the world. And as someone else has mentioned hasn’t signed an effective combo guard since Alex Johnson.
Torin Dorn should be that guy next year.
You are right that identifying “glue guys” like AJ would help us immeasurably.
BJD: We posted about the same time, but you and I see eye to eye on this one. Yow’s hitched her wagon to DD and Gott. She’s not firing either, particularly not Gott. She really can’t fire Gott given all the mess ups (publicly and privately) with her last bball search. I don’t want her hiring another men’s basketball coach either. If this year tanks and the real power brokers think that a change is inevitable, then they’ll need to move on her first.
I have a feeling that this season will be viewed as an aberration and that there will be a lot of hope about next year. We saw that save HWSNBN several times. You’ll see the staunch defenders coming out of the woodwork saying that Gott “deserves the chance to coach the #1 PG, which he recruited.” I think DSJ, Dorn and TH will be good enough to get us back in the tournament, so the whole thing will be viewed as “one bad year because Lacey left early and TH got hurt.”
I just think that’s really the likely plateau for this staff. They can get hot tournament time and maybe win a few games, but they’re not going to build this into a program consistently in the Top 25 all year. That’s the next step, and that’s the step that will be required to get the appropriate exposure and talent needed to push us over the top.
All the while, Arch will eventually get tired of waiting and take a high major job elsewhere. All it will take is one more tournament run (which they look poised to make this year), and he’s not going to be at Dayton. He’ll have guided the best 5 year tenure in the last 20-30 years for them. No way he’s sitting around turning down offers waiting for us to get rid of Yow and Gott. Florida was already really close to breaking our hearts last year:
http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2015/05/08/what-florida-not-hiring-uds-archie-miller-for.htmlAnyone with any juice in the Wolfpack Club ought to be making a lot of noise right now — and not about football. We’ve got a small window to get this done and get Archie in here.
I would hope with Arch if there is bad timing for his next stop, if he’s tearing it up at a non ACC power 5 he may at least give us a hard look if we came at him with both barrels. I would hope.
I’ve heard enough that I just get the feeling Arch isn’t really waiting to come back, period. I’m betting Yow could be gone, our job open in 2 years, him still at Dayton, and we STILL wouldn’t get him.
Nothing specific, just rumbling pieces I have put together in my jumbled old brain.
I’m not opposed to a “tourney coach” but we do need to have our launch point be at least in the 6-seed range, on average. The barely scraping in all the time gets old.
But I would rather have a “tourney coach” than one who regularly underachieves come March, that’s for sure. VERY glad not to use one of those kind of “systems” that de-value talent, etc.
Yow is here until 2019. She is not going to fire either Gott or DD IMO. I also don’t want her running another coaching search. The timing is simply not going to work with Arch and it is sickening. There is a rumor on the monkey board that Yow would not even return Arch’s call during the last search so he will not work for her.
As to the future, if Gott does not get any more recruits I see next year similar to this year with maybe a but more upside. We need some decent big men. I would be willing to bet we see Cat and at least one other player leave so we are still riding a short bench. And I see no reason to believe Gott will ever win anything here. We are in the 40 years of wandering the desert.
BJD: I’m more positive than you. Why else would he turn down Florida? You have it all there — SEC $$$, platform from which it has been proven twice in the last 10-15 years that you can win a title, look at his record against the SEC (so he’s obviously not worried about playing in that league), etc.. Maybe I’ve just got too much V in me, but I’ve not given up hope on that one and the fact that he’s not at Florida right now helps me hold out that hope.
Of course, to your point, I highly doubt he’s coming here to work for Yow. I’ve read the same stuff as Rick (and had heard some things when we made our hire of Gott). That’s why those juiced need to be working now.
Sean is in Archie’s ear. He’s the big bro. Don’t know what Sean thinks of DY, honestly don’t.
So our best player next year is going to be a freshan PG? Great. And that is sarcasm if you didn’t already detect it.
seriously, I don’t see how exchanging Cat for DS is seen as a surefire upgrade…that’s an unknown. And you cannot expect anyone over 6’6″ improving.
Not getting Bam is a real blow to next year, but on the positive side, we will be adding another very good guard in Torin Dorn to go along with DS Jr., and hopefully a full and healthy year from Henderson.
Sean is in Archie’s ear. He’s the big bro. Don’t know what Sean thinks of DY, honestly don’t.
So our best player next year is going to be a freshan PG? Great. And that is sarcasm if you didn’t already detect it.
Whether its fair or not Yow doesnt have a good reputation as someone who is easy to work for. Thats just the way it is. People can point to Williams, Fridge and TOB as examples.
Why does everyone think Archie is an upgrade? Dayton has traditionally been a good program before Archie got there. He didn’t build it, just maintaining it. It’s not a knock on Archie, just the truth. He played for us, and I appreciate that but that doesn’t mean he is a good fit as our coach. Plus everyone seems to think coaches want to go to a power 5 conference but why? If I am the top dog in my mid-major conference every year, win a conference title, go to the dance etc why would I want to go to a middle of the road program?
As for schollies, can someone compare us to multiple programs and how we stack up on numbers etc. From what I have seen, most teams stick to 7 or 8 man rotation. That makes scholarships far more difficult to give out and stick, especially when going to mid power 5 team inst as attractive as going to some mid majors? It’s easy for us to sit here wine and moan, but when drill down to what drives the results, it isnt as simple as Coach and staff? Because except for a handful of coaches, they are all in the same boat.
Again, her rep really doesn’t matter at this point. Even if you LOVED her, she won’t be here long-term. So…you’d be signing up with NO F-ING CLUE who your boss is going to be. I mean, every coach knows it’s POSSIBLE his AD will change, but dead certain?
She can’t possibly make the next hire, for many reasons. As others have also noted, she’s probably likely not in a great position to objectively judge him, either. NOT a good situation at the top at all.
You guys are right that neither Miller will EVER work for Yow, period. But I think it runs deeper than that. In the last 6 months, I’ve heard from multiple independent sources that it just doesn’t look like the Archie thing will happen, ever.
If you could, what are the reasons BJD? Too much expectations (HWSNBN)? Too much close competition? Too cheap? Don’t like the town? What’s the problem?
Why does everyone think Archie is an upgrade? Dayton has traditionally been a good program before Archie got there. He didn’t build it, just maintaining it. It’s not a knock on Archie, just the truth. He played for us, and I appreciate that but that doesn’t mean he is a good fit as our coach. Plus everyone seems to think coaches want to go to a power 5 conference but why? If I am the top dog in my mid-major conference every year, win a conference title, go to the dance etc why would I want to go to a middle of the road program?
Archie could make way more money coaching here, his wife is from here, he understands the ACC is the premiere league. He sees the opportunity to build something bigger than anything he can imagine in Dayton.
In regards to why people think he is the real deal I have to ask you if you have watched any of his teams? I think after 5 years is more than enough data and a snapshot of what is teams are and how they play. Smart team fundamentally sound ball is his trademark. They are gritty and tough defensively. Not sure what the “building/maintaining” comment is about. All I know is he can coach. Flat out coach. Its in his pedigree.
I would trade Archie for Gott every day of the week and twice on Sunday. At this point I would think the bulk of our alumni would say the exact same.
Again, her rep really doesn’t matter at this point. Even if you LOVED her, she won’t be here long-term. So…you’d be signing up with NO F-ING CLUE who your boss is going to be. I mean, every coach knows it’s POSSIBLE his AD will change, but dead certain?
She can’t possibly make the next hire, for many reasons. As others have also noted, she’s probably likely not in a great position to objectively judge him, either. NOT a good situation at the top at all.
You guys are right that neither Miller will EVER work for Yow, period. But I think it runs deeper than that. In the last 6 months, I’ve heard from multiple independent sources that it just doesn’t look like the Archie thing will happen, ever.
Not sure if you are an insider or not but do you think its possible that the PTB could send Yow to an early retirement if both Gott and DD fizzle next year?
Why does everyone think Archie is an upgrade? Dayton has traditionally been a good program
Xavier was a good program, too, before Sean got there. And we’ve now seen enough of him at Zona to know he’s a heck of a coach that has plenty more good years ahead of him.
I disagree on Archie, I see a coach who is slightly better than Gott. We just have a soft spot for him because of the Miller ties to State. He won’t get us to elite status. Brian Gregory was just as good a coach at Dayton before Archie got there. What has he done at GT?
The major point is, coaches don’t want to leave their top program in a mid major for a middle of the road P5 program. They leave for the special programs, which we aren’t one of unfortunately.
The major point is, coaches don’t want to leave their top program in a mid major for a middle of the road P5 program. They leave for the special programs, which we aren’t one of unfortunately.
That’s completely untrue. They leave the mid majors each and every year. Some pan out and others don’t.
Really, Shaka waited, Marshall is waiting. In the last 5 years, that has been the trend if you are a top tier mid major, your coach stays until he gets the one he wants.
Pack1997, mid major coaches leave their programs for Power 5 programs each and every year. Look it up, I’m not going to do the researh for you.
Really, Shaka waited, Marshall is waiting. In the last 5 years, that has been the trend if you are a top tier mid major, your coach stays until he gets the one he wants.
What does Archie have to do with Shaka and Marshall? Cherry picking random coaches to prove your point doesnt work when there are a vast number of mid majors that move up every year.
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