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The thing that makes me scratch my head is not the size, but rather why we didn’t get some bigger pieces if we could be more selective. Looks like we went even more under the radar than usual, like one ordinarily does when filling larger classes.
We recruited ‘needs’ — 6 D-linemen and 3 LBs. Except one JUCO AA from Louisburg College who came out of nowhere, our recruits all have the frames to add good weight i.e., muscle and fit our desire for length and height. These guys will be ready to go 2 and 3 seasons from now when our current crop of linemen are gone. Just damn smart recruiting. Want details? One of these guys grew 5 inches in height in one year. He opted to go to prep school because he and his HS coach knew he wasn’t physically ready for college. IIRC most of these guys are smart and many were team captains. The also played multiple sports in HS — think Russell Wilson.
We are picking up TE recruits that are projected to switch to OL ala Bradford. These are not just “coach-up” projects, these are projections after Thunder Dan does his thing. They are not being conned. They fully expect the physical transformations to occur. I just found out that we keep before and after photos of current players to show recruits that we can change their bodies to make them better players and more productive.
One of the LBs looks ready to play as a freshman. We have 6 or 8 preferred walk-ons and except for a kicker all are 6-2 and weigh over 200 lbs. Our scout teams are going to make our skollies better players. Some may wind up on special teams and some will wind up with skollies. All seem to want to be part of our future.
I can’t go on from memory but this is actually a good class that fills our needs, just not a “stary” class. The commitments we are getting for 2018 and 19 indicate we will be getting the stars we all want.
Being talked to death is a terrible way to die — even if it is the written word — so I’m going to stop here cause I killed 4 people on another board last week. Besides this should give the non-believers plenty to laugh about.
Darn, McCallum. I thought I was going to slide that one by you. LOL
Thats just spin on the whole thing and you could apply this statement to any school and any class. Just admit its not a good one, in fact our recruiting has been descending for 3 years now, and DD has to get it done this year or is fired. Not sure why that is so hard. The cards are on the table at this point but this class is not a good one.
Good heavens that is an awful ranking for a class. It appears the “new coach” bump is gone and he has not performed well enough to get players excited about coming here. I thought surely his bubbly personality would bring them in droves. DD has to have a big year next year or the death spiral will start.
BTW I don’t buy the “we don’t need a lot of player this year” argument. Football always needs a lot of players as it takes time for them to develop into college players.
Thats just spin on the whole thing and you could apply this statement to any school and any class. … but this class is not a good one.
You could apply your statement to every school and class but the star system is also just a spin on the incoming freshman class. In our class of 2014 we have a 4-star OT who can’t crack the starting line-up with a bunch of 3-star guys ahead of him. Another 4-star DE can’t beat out a 2 or 3-star who we thought might declare early and go pro.
Our high character and intelligent recruits beat the tar out of the tar holes in 2014 and 2016. Those tarholes have highly rated (“very good”) recruits and are living proof that stars ain’t all there is to appraising talent.
You might be right about this class but so far I’ve seen nothing you’ve had to say that indicates that it is not a very good one except your opinion. And you don’t seem to want to share what that is based on.
You say that every school could say the same thing about their recruiting class — and they could “say” the same thing. Our recruits are more often than not dual sport athletes who play both football and basketball. Often they are team captains and nearly always have good grades. Exceptions are made but the above criteria are usually the rule.
I do wonder how NC State built a defense with a mediocre DC and low rated prospects but is spoken of by national observers as a top D line. Could it be that the “spin” on our recruits is not just spin? What board monkeys like me and you may think what we may but our bunch of low rated recruits are doing quite well against highly rated recruits. Or didn’t you see the Clemson and FSU games?
IOW dual sport big men don’t usually have the body type as HS seniors to rate 4-stars. After 2 years in a good S and C program, they are often better than those same 4 recruits. Unfortunately for programs such as ours the skill positions aren’t as affected by body type differences.
This class is a good “fill linemen needs” class. Admittedly it wouldn’t be quite so good if the needs were at the skill positions.
Back to your “not a good one” judgement. That judgement will be determined in 2019 and 20, not in February 2017. I’ll listen to your evidence that it is “not a good one” but so far yours is just a typical SFN Wolfpack put down opinion — something at which most of this board is well practiced.
The similarities end with the fact that both consisted of HS football players. Many of TOB recruits, like Amado’s never made it on campus. Doeren’s all seem to make it. How many of TOB’s class of 2012 graduated? About 5 or 6. Tough to have seniors and senior leaders on your team if they aren’t in school.
Grey – you must have missed the part where I say that he has done a better job retaining them than his predecessor. And that you can build a solid program through player development as long as the vitals are there.
However, I think we can all agree that the biggest reason DD has yet to have a single season that matched the conference median record of both of his predecessors has little to do with talent.
The big test for next year is turning the corner. The DD era tbus far for me has a sendekian feel to it. Incredibly slow progress, but progress nonetheless.
Hopefully year 5 for DD will be like year 6 for Sendek. It was that year where the players learned to win and close out games – and they took the big jump. Some would say the just learned to win like all players do, others would say they overcame their coaches tendency to make those games tighter than they should be – regardless, from that point forward the program was different. The collapses were still around and still happened, but we were no longer a laughing stock.
We get a good shot early. I am actually excited next year. Personally, I think he does it and I am more or less impressed with how he’s methodically building the program. But, it’s time to show the results on gameday.
Good heavens that is an awful ranking for a class. It appears the “new coach” bump is gone and he has not performed well enough to get players excited about coming here. I thought surely his bubbly personality would bring them in droves. DD has to have a big year next year or the death spiral will start.
BTW I don’t buy the “we don’t need a lot of player this year” argument. Football always needs a lot of players as it takes time for them to develop into college players.
All this from someone who bragged about only watching 30 minutes of Wolfpack football last year. Not smart to show your ignorance about Wolfpack football because you don’t like the coach. The personal insults about Doeren are unbecoming of someone who is a Keymaster on an alleged fan site. OK he’s not as charismatic as our basketball coach but he does know how to coach defense.
You do know that with the late signing by the Juco AA our ranking went up to 37th, right? That’s not particularly good but far from, what was your description, an “awful” rating.
If our football team had a QB equal in talent to our BB point guard, we might go undefeated in 2017. If the BB team played as well as the FB team, you would have to change your underwear. Never in the history of sports has a team done so little with so much as our BB team.
BTW how is the marquee Wolfpack sport doing these days? Any 50 point losses to any arch rivals. Lost any games after leading by 3 with a few seconds to play in regulation? Most Jr Hi coaches know to prevent the hottest player on the other team from getting a shot off to tie it up. Give up a lay-up but don’t let a 3-point basket send you to overtime.
Stay with what you know, Rick, or better still keep quiet and try to learn something.
One of our recruits was a second string RB from a FL HS. And we all know about second string RBs, right? I mean what the heck, Barry Sanders was a second string RB at Okie State.
I’m gonna go out on a ledge here and say we didn’t pick up the next Barry Sanders in this recruiting class. Good grief.
..and lets not forget Barry was on the bench behind ALL AMERICAN Thurman Thomas. I don’t think Barry was a 1 star recruit or anything. Hey we got any Thurman Thomas’s hanging around?
Grey – you must have missed the part where I say that he has done a better job retaining them than his predecessor. And that you can build a solid program through player development as long as the vitals are there.
However, I think we can all agree that the biggest reason DD has yet to have a single season that matched the conference median record of both of his predecessors has little to do with talent.
The big test for next year is turning the corner. The DD era tbus far for me has a sendekian feel to it. Incredibly slow progress, but progress nonetheless.
Hopefully year 5 for DD will be like year 6 for Sendek. It was that year where the players learned to win and close out games – and they took the big jump. Some would say the just learned to win like all players do, others would say they overcame their coaches tendency to make those games tighter than they should be – regardless, from that point forward the program was different. The collapses were still around and still happened, but we were no longer a laughing stock.
We get a good shot early. I am actually excited next year. Personally, I think he does it and I am more or less impressed with how he’s methodically building the program. But, it’s time to show the results on gameday.
I quoted your entire post because I think it is so right on. I didn’t miss your other comments I just strongly disagreed with you “similarity” comment. I think the fact that only a few seniors were around to finish their careers from the 2012 class affected my thinking.
I for one am grateful for the kind of program TOB was building. He just fell too far short of achieving his goals. Circumstances dealing with his coaches health may have done him in. Doeren is for sure building on the shoulders of TOB’s classroom, community and field philosophy. I was sorry to see him fail but not sorry to see him go.
You touched on Doeren building a strong program and he is. I think very few know what goes into having a competitive football program this day and time. On the surface it looks the same as always: 11 players to a side, similar rules, same number of coaches, etc., but the unseen structure is amazing. There are coaches (quality control coaches) who only breakdown film (video) and prepare game plans, coaches and technicians preparing discs for positions, etc. Some teams have charts showing what opponents tend to do at any given down and distance. I expect some of Doeren’s stupid sideline coaching his first years was that he so heavily leaned on information prepared for him that he didn’t know what to do without it.
We have several dietitians preparing meal plans to suit individual players needs to change their bodies. Unbelievable isn’t it? Strength and conditioning is a science and each player is given what he needs to prepare him for his position. No guess work here. We are fortunate to have Thunder Dan leading that department.
You have to wonder how Doeren is keeping his coaches. They are all good. It’s more than money or facilities or what “great fans” we are.
This is just the tip of the iceburg. We don’t need a screaming, hyper cheerleader type who knows how to call plays. Today we need a chief executive who has a vision and a plan to accomplish that vision. We need a man who is easy to work with and motivates his staff while instilling loyalty. IMO his treatment of Bambard was critical to Doeren being the kind of man others respect and admire and are willing to follow.
I don’t think much of Dave’s ability to call a game from the sideline but we have coordinators who do have that ability and we will see more and more of that as the future unfolds.
Thanks for calling me on my failure to mention what you pointed out. I didn’t omit that maliciously. I appreciate the civility with which you did it, too. 🙂
Was Barry Sanders a 2nd stringer in high school too? I mean, we’re settling for 2nd string HS running backs and we want to hold them up next to Barry Sanders, gleefully? Let’s just agree to disagree. This class is terrible and recruiting is trending downward.
Do you think we’re the only school to know about food nutrition and strength and conditioning???
I’m gonna go out on a ledge here and say we didn’t pick up the next Barry Sanders in this recruiting class. Good grief.
..and lets not forget Barry was on the bench behind ALL AMERICAN Thurman Thomas. I don’t think Barry was a 1 star recruit or anything. Hey we got any Thurman Thomas’s hanging around?
Erin Collins got in 5 or 6 runs per game playing behind a running back recruited by Ohio State. I watched some of his recruitment tapes. We are getting a player who could be the next Matt Dayes or better.
I don’t understand your comment about having a Thurman Thomas hanging around. Were you trying to be cute or clever?
My point was a back up HS running back will not get rated highly as Barry Sanders wasn’t rated highly coming out of college. I’m happy our coaches can spot the type player Erin Collins is. Our other RBs should be grateful he isn’t an early enrollee. I expect him to play as a freshman. He’s that good.
Erin Collins got in 5 or 6 runs per game playing behind a running back recruited by Ohio State. I watched some of his recruitment tapes. We are getting a player who could be the next Matt Dayes or better.
Well, I’m relieved now. You watched his recruitment tapes of his couple of runs a game spelling for an OSU recruit deeming him better than Matt Dayes. Alright! Go Dave, Go!
Guess those recruiting experts don’t know what they’re doing.
We were so lucky to land this kid! Who else was in the running for this riding the pine freak of nature? Bama and LSU?
All this from someone who bragged about only watching 30 minutes of Wolfpack football last year. Not smart to show your ignorance about Wolfpack football because you don’t like the coach
So what did I say that has anything to do with watching the games or any particular football knowledge? Hint: nothing but that apparently doesn’t matter to you and your high horse. If I remember correctly you were predicting ten wins for the Pack football so you might want to be right about something before you call someone else ignorant.
Stay with what you know, Rick, or better still keep quiet and try to learn something.
I have been very respectful to your “we are one step from awesome” opinion. What I have learned is you believe you know more than anyone. So thank you for that “lesson”.
Well, I’m relieved now. You watched his recruitment tapes of his couple of runs a game spelling for an OSU recruit deeming him better than Matt Dayes. Alright! Go Dave, Go!
Guess those recruiting experts don’t know what they’re doing.
We were so lucky to land this kid! Who else was in the running for this riding the pine freak of nature? Bama and LSU?
Do you have a learning disability or do you intentionally distort what people say? I didn’t deem him better than Matt Dayes. What I said was he could be as good if not better than Matt Dayes, which could be said about any recruit.
For just a moment I forgot what site I was on. We don’t talk serious sports here, we put down Wolfpack coaches and the job they do. That includes recruiting.
What coach are we going to attack after Avent, Gottfried, Doeren and our AD? Our best attribute is tearing down, not building up. Ah, the glory days of running Sendek, TOB and Fowler off. Fortunately we have others to take their place.
How the heck this got attributed to StateRed instead of Rick is a mystery to me.
If I remember correctly you were predicting ten wins for the Pack football so you might want to be right about something before you call someone else ignorant.
If you had watched more than 30 minutes of Wolfpack football, you would have known just how close that prediction was to being accurate. I do give all those predictors who said our top was 5 to 7 games credit for knowing in advance about out FG situation.
Now, Rick, tell us about your predictions. Did you predict a 50 point loss to the holes and other such abominations?
I have been very respectful to your “we are one step from awesome” opinion. What I have learned is you believe you know more than anyone. So thank you for that “lesson”.
You got me there. I do believe I know more about Wolfpack football than someone who only watched 30 minutes last year. You know way more about Wolfpack basketball than I do. I’m waiting to hear WTF is going on in that sport.
Top 75 class. Good grief.
At first glance it does seem bad but a low ranked class that fills needs is better than a high ranked class that duplicates needs with 4-star recruits. One other thing I don’t know for sure about is how JUCO additions affect ratings but we got a JUCO All America defensive tackle Wednesday after Doeren’s pressor. This would put us ranked at about 37th with most of our needs in 2019 & 20 filled.
Don’t let the “star-counters” get to you. We are not nearly as bad off as it might seem.
I have been very respectful to your “we are one step from awesome” opinion. What I have learned is you believe you know more than anyone. So thank you for that “lesson”.
You got me there. I do believe I know more about Wolfpack football than someone who only watched 30 minutes last year. You know way more about Wolfpack basketball than I do. I’m waiting to hear WTF is going on in that sport.
Top 75 class. Good grief.
At first glance it does seem bad but a low ranked class that fills needs is better than a high ranked class that duplicates needs with 4-star recruits. One other thing I don’t know for sure about is how JUCO additions affect ratings but we got a JUCO All America defensive tackle Wednesday after Doeren’s pressor. This would put us ranked at about 37th with most of our needs in 2019 & 20 filled.
Don’t let the “star-counters” get to you. We are not nearly as bad off as it might seem.
No offense but you are absolutely insane with that point, just more ridiculous spin from you. Just acknowledge its a lackluster class and move on. No need to dig your heels in, circle the wagons or whatever because DD is getting a 5th season.
But I can see it now, a new coach comes in and the excuses for his under performing will be the lack of talent that DD left him with. Thats how you guys like to play the game
What, pray tell, was wrong with running Fowler, TOB, or Sendek off? Hasn’t the market shown we were 3-for-3 on those??
How the heck this got attributed to StateRed instead of Rick is a mystery to me.
If I remember correctly you were predicting ten wins for the Pack football so you might want to be right about something before you call someone else ignorant.
If you had watched more than 30 minutes of Wolfpack football, you would have known just how close that prediction was to being accurate. I do give all those predictors who said our top was 5 to 7 games credit for knowing in advance about out FG situation.
Now, Rick, tell us about your predictions. Did you predict a 50 point loss to the holes and other such abominations?
I have no idea why you have come out swinging and are picking a fight with everyone on this thread but you are doubling down on stupid.
I have not claimed to be a football expert. You have and yet you were very very wrong about the record. If you are going to call yourself an expert you should at least be occasionally right especially when you are being petulant and arrogant about your extensive “knowledge”.BTW I have claimed Gott is a bad coach. The 51 point loss confirms that opinion.
Do you have a learning disability or do you intentionally distort what people say? I didn’t deem him better than Matt Dayes. What I said was he could be as good if not better than Matt Dayes, which could be said about any recruit.
So by your estimable expert opinion “any recruit” can be as good as Matt Dayes.
You are digging a hole. Just step away from the keyboard.
So by your estimable expert opinion “any recruit” can be as good as Matt Dayes.
You keep proving my point. Offering an opinion as you say I was doing is very different from saying that on signing day you could say a recruit COULD be as good as Dayes. Perhaps you don’t know the difference between “Could be” and “will be”.
So by your estimable expert opinion “any recruit” can be as good as Matt Dayes.
You keep proving my point. Offering an opinion as you say I was doing is very different from saying that on signing day you could say a recruit COULD be as good as Dayes. Perhaps you don’t know the difference between “Could be” and “will be”.
As you stated yourself “any recruit COULD BE as good as Dayes” so why make the statement at all? You made it because you trying to make a poorly ranked class seem better. You inferred from seeing him play 5 plays a game (ironic given your criticism of my viewing habits) that he will be another Matt Dayes but when you were called on it you backed and claimed “any recruit” could be as good as Matt Dayes. If you are going to be an “expert” you should stick to your guns. Heck we both agree I am not an expert and I can claim Joe Blow COULD be as good as Matt Dayes. It means nothing.
BTW I have claimed Gott is a bad coach. The 51 point loss confirms that opinion.
Did I miss where you predicted the 50 point loss?
I don’t pick fights but I do often disagree and when I do I give the reasons why. Am I to believe that giving the reasons constitutes fighting? I’m not an expert or Keymaster on message board protocol so help me out here.
BTW I have claimed Gott is a bad coach. The 51 point loss confirms that opinion.
Did I miss where you predicted the 50 point loss?
I don’t pick fights but I do often disagree and when I do I give the reasons why. Am I to believe that giving the reasons constitutes fighting? I’m not an expert or Keymaster on message board protocol so help me out here.
For the love of Pete, why do you keep asking me this? NO I did not. Nor am I arrogantly preaching to everyone about how great my opinion is because I am an “expert”.
However, I HAVE said is Gott is not a good coach (and backed that up with plenty of reasons over the years) and that has proven to be TRUE.
Keymaster sir, why does it say BJD95 when it was Rick I was responding to?
No idea. Either you did something wrong or the software messed something up. Are you implying something else?
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